Tesla Model S - Not Large Luxury Car??

[Maximilien]

I know this topic has been discussed but couldn't find sole thread about this in search.

So EPA made Model S in Large Luxury category based on the space >120ft^3 and the sales figure also shows large luxury that competes against BMW 6,7 Series, and Mercedes CLS, and S Class. Of course, Tesla sales has been fantastic and many angry other brand loyalists seem belittling the car to lower cars su

Every other car forums (Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, Audi) people seem to belittle how Model S should compete 5 series, E class. Heck, some even argue Model S competes BMW 3,4 series. Their argument goes with car length and width that Model S is equivalent to 5 series, E class.

And some argue Tesla should be compared with C, 3-4 series classes because of poor interior design. If the interior is that important, why not spend more on house furniture? While I agree that design may not be par with S class, I think many people forget the torque and performance that Model S delivers. Even those large luxury sedans are not as quick as Model S90D. And beyond 100mph is stupid because you will for sure get a ticket. To me car is a car, I could care less about interior.

And also I think the member "Calisnow" mentioned in his thread how Model S has its own beauty by the spartan design. I too is more attracted to its simple design rather than the rich, superfluous design.

Others say the price cannot meet S-class and 7 series because of Tesla starts with 68K, which is significantly higher than 5, E class base price. But who really pays the ICE cars with MSRP? I know majority buyers who get huge discount by haggling. Also it seems many TMC forumers were in the past S-class, 7 series owners and cross shop easily from those to Model S/X. I too considered Audi A7/8, BMW 7, S550, but went with Model S for various reasons.

Oh, and I remember how Model S years ago used to compare with Mercedes S550. Remember, the battery swap? I remember the time of puting S-Class gas took longer than the Model S battery swap (altho that is no longer avail). Even Tesla seems to acknowledge it competes the S-class.

I made the thread because I hear both kinds of people in TMC that say Model S compete Large luxury sedan and people that say it competes rather midsize 5 series/E class. I want to hear some interesting opinions from here.

 

[jerry33]

The Model S has always been marketed as a Premium Sedan, not a Luxury Sedan. It best competes with A7/8 and M6/7 due to its size and power. However, because it's electric it has a much broader appeal than either of those cars.

 

[Saghost]

At this point, I'm pretty sure the Model S is pulling people from all of the markets you described, and therefore competing with all those cars to some extent.

 

[sandpiper]

It's a bit of a silly debate. The answer is both; and more. It's a bit of a different animal than either.

You have some 5 series buyers who will pay more for the S. And you have some 7/8 buyers who are willing to compromise on the luxo-frippery to get the EV. And you wind up with some buyers (like me) who came from something completely different. In my case it was a pickup, but for others it's a sports car, small SUV, or a Prius.

Tesla, as the only real long range EV, competes across a wide variety of segments. It LOOKS like it fits into the 5/6-series category, but that's only a small part of the story.

 

[sdorn]

At this point, I'm pretty sure the Model S is pulling people from all of the markets you described, and therefore competing with all those cars to some extent.

This is the most accurate way to describe the Model S I think. People looking at an S60 are likely cross-shopping mid-size competitors while those looking at 90D are cross-shopping larger models. Those of us looking at the P100D were cross-shopping other luxury sport cars like Porsche Panamera, Porsche Cayenne Turbo, AMG series Mercedes, BMW M5 or M6, etc.

 

[Saghost]

This is the most accurate way to describe the Model S I think. People looking at an S60 are likely cross-shopping mid-size competitors while those looking at 90D are cross-shopping larger models. Those of us looking at the P100D were cross-shopping other luxury sport cars like Porsche Panamera, Porsche Cayenne Turbo, AMG series Mercedes, BMW M5 or M6, etc.

And those of us looking for carefree Autopilot and Supercharger road trips didn't cross shop anything, because there's nothing like it on the road.

 

[davinci2017]

The closest ICE car to the Model S is the Audi A7, I cross shopped from my Audi Q7 between A7, S6 and Model S60 (Q7 was too big and heavy for me, felt I wanted a large sedan instead)

A7 and Model S are remarkably similar IMO, with S7 and Model S P series being comparable IMO. I would say A7 has the edge on interior quality and feel, but tech wise Model S is ahead even with the botched up software on AP2. When it does improve with updates, it will definitely be better. I personally like the driver feel on the Model S more than the A7, and I'm already so used to driving with just the regen braking, I don't know how I'd go back

The S6 is a superb car to drive, the engine is a gem, the sound, oh the sound, so good, and its quicker than the S60 by a fair bit yet comparable in price. But the S6 is still stuck in the previous refresh, doesnt have the tech of even their current A4 and is really lacking in that department. When they do release a refresh next year it will be caught up as such, but it will still be behind the Model S in overall tech IMO. Audi's implementation of driver assistance features is still on the "catch up" phase. That said, their Magnetic ride is better than Smart suspension

I find the 6 series to be more of a show off car than a practical car, the 5 series is a LOT more practical than the 6, so maybe in BMW world, one can argue its 5 series and M5 comparable simply because the 6 seems to fill its own niche of some sort.

In the end I picked the Model S simply because of the charging network around me being fairly well laid out, supercharging seems quick enough now, I felt the overall quality has improved and the interior looks decent, and the features, ride quality seemed comparable.

I didn't really know that AP and features were so far behind on the AP2 cars before I bought mine, I might have waited a bit longer had I known to see if he makes any other hardware changes. But now I'm stuck hoping he doesnt mess with the hardware to "Resolve" the issues they currently have leaving us AP2 adopters wanting. I'm already quite ticked off that I didn;t get the new seats on my car for no fault of mine, so I'd say the "user experience" department, I'd rate Tesla at the bottom of the bin and not even close to where Audi is. I used to be treated like a king in Audi, they really were nice to me always, I didn't really have to do anything to get or deserve that treatment, just bought their cars. Over here I'm struggling to get a straight answer from the sales/delivery rep and just hear excuses and apologies and nothing to show for it other than a damn umbrella.

I do think the ICE cars values will plummet once electric and AP features pick up over the next few years. I took a bet than the depreciation on an A7, S6 will be more than the Model S even with the Model 3 coming up (which may end up cannibalizing Model S values). That said its a complete gamble and I could be wrong and end up with a very expensive RC car.

 

[sdorn]

And those of us looking for carefree Autopilot and Supercharger road trips didn't cross shop anything, because there's nothing like it on the road.

Including from Tesla at the moment. Hopefully they will get that figured out soon though. I am sure looking forward to some Autopilot and Full Self-Driving fun over the next couple of years.

 

[croman]

It will be a banner moment when Tesla turns on the switch for FSD functionality like stop sign recognition and stop lights. Its not like I've gotten a taste of Autosteer on regular roads, but I can imagine what that would be like + not having to worry about intersections as much.

 

[ev-now]

not having to worry about intersections as much

That right there is what scares me about the near-term future.
A comment on the technology, and general rush to get there - not you!
The manufacturer sold you FSD - it's totally reasonable to expect it.

 

[Pezpunk]

for me, it was competing directly with a Challenger Hellcat, which is really apples to oranges!

the truth is it defies any attempt to fit it into an existing class. exotic supercar acceleration. econo-box efficiency. amenities of a mid-level luxury vehicle. bleeding edge technology. no real track capability. i dunno, what's that worth to you?

 

[bktiger86]

Before my Tesla, I used to have my BMW 745Li. Now I have a Model S. I do think the Model S is an amazing car, but the interior is definitely not luxurious. Everything in the car is actually more tech based. You are essentially buying a tech car and I'm totally fine with that.

 

[TexasEV]

To try to classify the Model S based on which BMW or Mercedes cars it's most similar to misses the point. I would have never considered any of the cars you listed. The Model S is in a class of 1.

 

[TexLaw]

I agree with the others that no "class" comparison works. The MS is not a dog, and it's not a cat. Driving any Tesla involves a number of tradeoffs, and these sort of comparisons tend to highlight only what one gives in trade while pushing aside what one gets.

 

[tstafford]

Hmm. No mention of the Panamera. I think of my P85D as an alternative to the Pan or an RS7.

 

[Burnt Toast]

The direct competitor size wise is the Mercedes CLS which has near identical dimensions. The S is a step between the E class and S class in terms of size. Tesla even used Mercedes CLS as early miles for the Model S

 

[Maximilien]

Just checked this page. Interesting thoughts and poll result.
I feel the TMC people are more humble and modest toward their own car.
More reason to hangout here with cool people.