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Actually I think they would complement each other under one roof. Let's put brands aside, they are both EVs and I hope them both success.
There are no words for how much I would hate to drive around an EV all the time and then have to swap for a gas powered car just to make a short trip out of town. I am quite hopeful that this is a business model that doesn't become the norm and it's a little annoying to see both BMW and Fiat thinking that they "solve" the problem of the EV by letting one go back in time when one wants to go out of town.
I think of it as a temporary solution to a temporary problem.
I hear someone in the back row heckling "Get a Tesla! It has the size, the range, and the comfort, and the options you need and want!" I'd be happy to. Please wire me $100,000 and I'll pick one up immediately.
Unfortunately, barring that, I'll have to wait a few years until my savings and Tesla's MSRP will finally meet on common ground (yuk, yuk).
-or-
As I'm far more likely to get my hands on only $50,000 (and I don't think I'm alone here), I can pick up a slightly less capable electric car in the form of a BMW i3 and start driving electrically. Now. (Well, soon, anyway.)
Yes, I'll have to suffer through driing only 100 miles or so between charges, and bide my time while it recharges in 4-5 hours, and lower my head in shame knowing it won't do everything an ICE car does today.
To mitigate this shame, BMW has -- no, it isn't offering you a paper bag to put over your head to hide in -- BMW is offering you a chance to drive a car more suitable to your needs when you need to. And its a rather elegant solution to this temporary problem.
After all, it *is* only temporary. Eventually there *will* be electric vehicles that will drive 1,000 miles between charges, and recharge in under 30 minutes. There *will* be electric pickup trucks, delivery vans, city buses, motor homes, and 18-wheelers. But until then, borrow them when you need them, and drive electric when you can.
-- Ardie
I hear someone in the back row heckling "Get a Tesla! It has the size, the range, and the comfort, and the options you need and want!" I'd be happy to. Please wire me $100,000 and I'll pick one up immediately.
Unfortunately, barring that, I'll have to wait a few years until my savings and Tesla's MSRP will finally meet on common ground (yuk, yuk).-or-
As I'm far more likely to get my hands on only $50,000 (and I don't think I'm alone here), I can pick up a slightly less capable electric car in the form of a BMW i3 and start driving electrically. Now. (Well, soon, anyway.)
Yes, I'll have to suffer through driing only 100 miles or so between charges, and bide my time while it recharges in 4-5 hours, and lower my head in shame knowing it won't do everything an ICE car does today.
To mitigate this shame, BMW has -- no, it isn't offering you a paper bag to put over your head to hide in -- BMW is offering you a chance to drive a car more suitable to your needs when you need to. And its a rather elegant solution to this temporary problem.
After all, it *is* only temporary. Eventually there *will* be electric vehicles that will drive 1,000 miles between charges, and recharge in under 30 minutes. There *will* be electric pickup trucks, delivery vans, city buses, motor homes, and 18-wheelers. But until then, borrow them when you need them, and drive electric when you can.
-- Ardie
Rla
Member
Quite agree that they are very compatible. I'd be even more awesome to lease this car for the daily commute and regular weekend driving, and be able to pick up a Tesla Model S (or X) for the longer trips or holidays.
I think of it as a temporary solution to a temporary problem.
I hear someone in the back row heckling "Get a Tesla! It has the size, the range, and the comfort, and the options you need and want!" I'd be happy to. Please wire me $100,000 and I'll pick one up immediately.
-or-
As I'm far more likely to get my hands on only $50,000 (and I don't think I'm alone here), I can pick up a slightly less capable electric car in the form of a BMW i3 and start driving electrically. Now. (Well, soon, anyway.)
Yes, I'll have to suffer through driing only 100 miles or so between charges, and bide my time while it recharges in 4-5 hours, and lower my head in shame knowing it won't do everything an ICE car does today.
To mitigate this shame, BMW has -- no, it isn't offering you a paper bag to put over your head to hide in -- BMW is offering you a chance to drive a car more suitable to your needs when you need to. And its a rather elegant solution to this temporary problem.
After all, it *is* only temporary. Eventually there *will* be electric vehicles that will drive 1,000 miles between charges, and recharge in under 30 minutes. There *will* be electric pickup trucks, delivery vans, city buses, motor homes, and 18-wheelers. But until then, borrow them when you need them, and drive electric when you can.
-- Ardie
Loaning a gas car was Nissan's idea, not BMWs.
Ardie - I think somewhere in 2015 you'll be able to pick up an S85 for a number that starts with 5. And by 2017 a really well-equipped Gen3 for the same. Stay pure, hold the course (or invest the 50K in Tesla and go straight to the configurator on the website).
I think of it as a temporary solution to a temporary problem.
I hear someone in the back row heckling "Get a Tesla! It has the size, the range, and the comfort, and the options you need and want!" I'd be happy to. Please wire me $100,000 and I'll pick one up immediately.
-or-
As I'm far more likely to get my hands on only $50,000 (and I don't think I'm alone here), I can pick up a slightly less capable electric car in the form of a BMW i3 and start driving electrically. Now. (Well, soon, anyway.)
Yes, I'll have to suffer through driing only 100 miles or so between charges, and bide my time while it recharges in 4-5 hours, and lower my head in shame knowing it won't do everything an ICE car does today.
To mitigate this shame, BMW has -- no, it isn't offering you a paper bag to put over your head to hide in -- BMW is offering you a chance to drive a car more suitable to your needs when you need to. And its a rather elegant solution to this temporary problem.
After all, it *is* only temporary. Eventually there *will* be electric vehicles that will drive 1,000 miles between charges, and recharge in under 30 minutes. There *will* be electric pickup trucks, delivery vans, city buses, motor homes, and 18-wheelers. But until then, borrow them when you need them, and drive electric when you can.
-- Ardie
Raffy.Roma
Rome (Italy)
In my opinion Tesla Model S and BMW i3 cannot even compare. Different speed, different range, different price and, last but absolutely not least, different size.
I think we could make a trade off between a Tesla and BMW i3 only when Gen III will be produced. But I already know that in this case we will have many points in favour of Tesla for what is concerning range and speed.
I think we could make a trade off between a Tesla and BMW i3 only when Gen III will be produced. But I already know that in this case we will have many points in favour of Tesla for what is concerning range and speed.
Thumper
Active Member
i3 battery at 22K WHs weighs 450 lb. If we scale that to 85 KWH, that's 1738 lbs. If these published figures are correct, BMW is way behind on battery technology, no matter the other comparisons of size, beauty etc. What BMW IS pioneering in a production car with the i3 is the carbon survival cell. This could be a significant technology if they can get the price down on mass produced carbon.
cschock
Member
It appears to me that the i3 and the Model S are two vastly different vehicles aiming at different markets. Yes, they are both electric. But that's a bit like saying the Camry is competing with Ferrari. After all, they both have internal combustion engines.
I'm glad to see BMW testing the electric waters, but I don't see the i3 putting any crimp in Tesla's sales numbers any time soon. More of an upscale version of the Leaf than a "value" competitor to the Model S.
My only other substantive comment is that, good lord, could they have made it any more ugly? :wink:
I'm glad to see BMW testing the electric waters, but I don't see the i3 putting any crimp in Tesla's sales numbers any time soon. More of an upscale version of the Leaf than a "value" competitor to the Model S.
My only other substantive comment is that, good lord, could they have made it any more ugly? :wink:
Volker.Berlin
Member
My take exactly. Thanks for putting it so well!
In any event, there's more than enough market for both, and sometimes competition creates/accelerates the market, to the benefit of all competitors.
Raffy.Roma
Rome (Italy)
This was nice :biggrin:. I laughed a lot.
Anyway Tesla had the big merit of producing a EV like the Model S that looked even better than most well known sport ICE sedan cars like BMW series 5 or Mercedes class E. I don't know why on the other hand any other automaker designing and producing an EV is only able to design ugly cars :scared:.
Raffy.Roma
Rome (Italy)
As they say, it's butt ugly. You would only design such an ugly car if you wanted to limit sales
This is even better than that of cschock :biggrin:.
Rather than offer loaner cars for those long trips, BMW might consider building charging stations. Over time, improved range will attract additional customers as they expand the charging network. Tesla has that idea well thought out. They just better hurry and get GEN III out there - at least a demo model to wet some appetites.
Mayhemm
Model S P85+ "Lola"
I still think the i3 is BMW's version of a compliance car. They're not really serious about electric cars. They just see Tesla and others making some money and want a quick piece of the pie. The i3 does the same thing as all the other cars in its class, bringing next to nothing new to the table (with the exception of its carbon shell). Instead of trying to solve the current problems with EVs (cost and range), they play it safe and shove old technology at you to cover them up ("Don't worry, you can get it with a gas engine." "Don't worry, here's an ICE car for the weekend"). They clearly have no confidence in the independence of the platform.
Don't get me wrong, more competition is great for the EV market. However, coming from a veteran automaker like BMW, this is a pretty sad effort.
Don't get me wrong, more competition is great for the EV market. However, coming from a veteran automaker like BMW, this is a pretty sad effort.
I think the optional range extender piece crippled it. To have that, you have to design an ICE with batteries basically. You've got to have exhaust venting, etc, all built into the frame. You've got to have factory automation for both possibilities. Take all that time and money spent on the optional ICE and instead spend it on developing an actual EV and you'd have a more competitive EV. BMW is still living in the wrong mindset of EV as the lesser/inferior technology that has to be propped up by gas, rather than seeing the EV as a fundamentally superior car.
Mayhemm
Model S P85+ "Lola"
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