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Tesla (Model S & X) no longer eligible for Ontario rebate?

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agreed!

My question is though... what is the NDP stance on.. well... anything?? I have never voted NDP before and It was always my understanding that the NDP were the middle ground between Libs and Conservatives. Has Andrea Horwath said anything??
NDP ran on a relatively right wing platform last time, focusing on pocketbook issues. It didn't work. My hope would be that they recognize the mistake and the opportunity that exists this time. A centre-left platform with fiscal responsiblity and social progressivism might well be a winning ticket.

The runup to this election has been so bizarre that I'd be reluctant to call that a prediction of any kind though. We really have no idea what is going to happen.
 
For what it's worth - possibly very little - there's a new Ipsos poll out Ontario PC Party could get majority government as Tories have lead in seat-rich GTA: Ipsos showing PC at 39%, Lib at 32%, NDP at 25%. While the Global story leads with "Ontario's Progressive Conservative Party could form a majority government", it may not be that simple.

There's a 2018 Ontario seat predictor at Ontario 2018 simulator - Too Close To Call, and plugging those numbers into the predictor results in the PCs winning 54 seats, Liberals winning 44, NDP with 26 - a PC minority government.

It's also very easy to see a slight shift dramatically affecting the results. Just as a guess of what could happen, let's say that the Liberals gain 2 points from scared NDP voters and 2 points from soft PCs unhappy with Ford - so 37% PC, 36% Liberal, 23% NDP. That Liberal gain is only 1 point larger than one Ipsos claims has happened in the previous month, by the way - though the PCs are also up one point. The seat predictor says those changes result in a LIberal minority at with 58 seats compared to 41 PC and 25 NDP.

Of course this is just playing with numbers, but the point is that there's plenty of room for significant movement between now and June.

As a last thought, I can't think of anything that would frustrate Ford more than being in a minority position and requiring NDP support to get legislation through the Legislature.
 
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I'm honestly torn,

The way I see it is this

Vote Liberal - Get $14,000 back for a Tesla Model 3, but probably pay more than that back in new taxes, fees, levies, road tolls, scandals, Skyrocketing hydro bills and be distracted by it all with distracting social justice issues that they bring up

Vote PC - Lose the rebate, but save on my taxes, more highways get built, probably a few scandals where Doug Ford get's into trouble and embarrasses us all

Vote NDP - Rebate probably disappears, as the NDP believes we should all take transit, taxes go through the roof, the unions and social justice warriors run amok and ruin it all

Honestly, the best choice seems to be a Minority PC or Liberal government, keep everyone in check.

It's a tough choice.
 
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Im actually in the exact same position as @Struja .i am curious as to your belief that the right wing is for voter suppression... but i digress...

Having lived in the USA for 14 years, I think voter suppression and gerrymandering are real and a legit phenomenon. I think both parties down south are guilty to a degree but the Republicans (re: Conservatives) run away with it. I don't really see it in the same kind of way, plus even a super right wing candidate like Ford isn't trying to stifle the visble minority vote. Lots of visibile minorities love him and often for good reason.

So... I don't think the right wing tries to suppress voters, not at all.

As flawed a man as his brother was, the truth is, when he was Mayor, if you had a problem, question or concern, you got an answer. He was quite attentitive to the needs of his constituents. You may have disagreed with his politics (and I disagreed with a lot of it) but I do believe he always felt he was doing what was the best for the city.

In the last 9 monhts, I have written to Mayor Tory numerous times, be it about HOV lane use in the city for Green plates, or street side charging, or condo charging or other EV related requests. I am still waiting for my first response. I even wrote Eric Hoskins in January and while it took about 6 weeks to get a response, at least I did, so i think Ford has some admirable qualities.

I just don't get why the PC's can't get their heads out of the social issues. My guess is that if the Tories simply said, "we aren't talking or touching abortion, sex ed, marriage equality and the environment" they'd win the election in a landslide. It's almost like they are trying to lose it.

***And yes... I am still undecdided***
 
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It's a tough choice.

From today's Toronto Star.
DYU-FM0WAAAZu6U
 
Having lived in the USA for 14 years, I think voter suppression and gerrymandering are real and a legit phenomenon. I think both parties down south are guilty to a degree but the Republicans (re: Conservatives) run away with it. I don't really see it in the same kind of way, plus even a super right wing candidate like Ford isn't trying to stifle the visble minority vote. Lots of visibile minorities love him and often for good reason.

So... I don't think the right wing tries to suppress voters, not at all.

As flawed a man as his brother was, the truth is, when he was Mayor, if you had a problem, question or concern, you got an answer. He was quite attentitive to the needs of his constituents. You may disagreed with his politics (and I disagreed with a lot of it) but I do believe he always felt he was doing what was the best for the city.

In the last 9 monhts, I have written to Mayor Tory numerous times, be it about HOV lane use in the city for Green plates, or street side charging, or condo charging or other EV related requests. I am still waiting for my first response. I even wrote Eric Hoskins in January and while it took about 6 weeks to get a response, at least I did, so i think Ford has some admirable qualities.

I just don't get why the PC's can't get their heads out of the social issues. My guess is that if the Tories simply said, "we aren't talking or touching abortion, sex ed, marriage equality and the environment" they'd win the election in a landslide. It's almost like they are trying to lose it.

***And yes... I am still undecdided***

Try to write to Ford now on how his stand on EVIP, as you said he always respond....;)
 
I just don't get why the PC's can't get their heads out of the social issues. My guess is that if the Tories simply said, "we aren't talking or touching abortion, sex ed, marriage equality and the environment" they'd win the election in a landslide. It's almost like they are trying to lose it.

***And yes... I am still undecdided***
There was a guy trying to do that then something happened to him...

But yes I agree fiscal Conservative, social Liberal or agnostic, no sideshow and you win.
 
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I hesitate to jump in to the political debate being so new to this forum (hey, I haven't even taken delivery of my S 100D yet!), but...

Ford will almost certainly win. He can win seats in areas of Toronto that have historically been impossible for the tories to win since the Mike Harris era. Canada, Ontario, Toronto, nowhere is immune to the populist wave, and the opportunists like Ford who are willing to say anything to pander to an oversimplified world view. In turn, prosperity has eluded most normal people, and even though they have access to a relatively high standard of living, they feel ignored, belittled and exploited. People who feel that way aren't inclined to vote for Kathleen Wynne's brand of virtue signalling oneupmanship, even leaving aside the clear history of abuse of power and corruption in the current and immediately preceding government.

These days, whenever anybody tells you that there is no way X or Y politician can win, it's usually because the idea of them winning is so distasteful. The reality is a large segment of the voting population doesn't care about your feelings of distaste. Politicians like Ford are also unconstrained by normal political realities. He is, like his brother, a pathological liar and fantasist whose supporters get a kick out of how much the "elites" hate him. It's not possible to defeat him with logic, reason or policy, and like Trump, at least in an election campaign, he's immune to most of the good arguments as to why he shouldn't be trusted to pump gas, let alone run a Province.

With all of that said, I don't believe even Ford could be worse than the current government. And given that I think Ford is a repulsive individual, that tells you how little I think of Wynne.
 
I am not so sure that the PCs will gain a lot of seats in Toronto, especially if social issues get a lot of attention in the campaign. They may win some seats in the 905 belt, but few, if any, within the city. Currently the Liberals have 20 seats in Toronto and the NDP 2. The PCs do have 2 seats in the 905 belt.
 
I am not so sure that the PCs will gain a lot of seats in Toronto, especially if social issues get a lot of attention in the campaign. They may win some seats in the 905 belt, but few, if any, within the city. Currently the Liberals have 20 seats in Toronto and the NDP 2. The PCs do have 2 seats in the 905 belt.

Even if DoFo just replicates his performance in the mayoral election, he'll probably pick up 10 seats in Toronto.
 
Even if DoFo just replicates his performance in the mayoral election, he'll probably pick up 10 seats in Toronto.
People keep talking about how he did in the mayoral race, but I think there's a point that isn't discussed. I remember there being open discussion that he was running to keep the mayor's chair open for Rob, and that when Rob recovered from cancer, Doug would resign to trigger a byelection, and Rob would then be back in office. If memory serves, Doug even said as much at the time.

Given that, we don't really know how many people voted for Doug Ford because they actually wanted him to be mayor versus how many people just wanted to give Rob a chance to come back. My guess is at least some did, and if so, that means that the mayor's race wasn't really a full test of Doug's appeal in an election.
 
People keep talking about how he did in the mayoral race, but I think there's a point that isn't discussed. I remember there being open discussion that he was running to keep the mayor's chair open for Rob, and that when Rob recovered from cancer, Doug would resign to trigger a byelection, and Rob would then be back in office. If memory serves, Doug even said as much at the time.

Given that, we don't really know how many people voted for Doug Ford because they actually wanted him to be mayor versus how many people just wanted to give Rob a chance to come back. My guess is at least some did, and if so, that means that the mayor's race wasn't really a full test of Doug's appeal in an election.

Fair enough, but people who would vote for RoFo as mayor would almost certainly be at least open to voting for DoFo as Premier. I wouldn't underestimate the extent to which the election will be about who can channel voter anger the most effectively. The Fords were / are good at that.
 
I hesitate to jump in to the political debate being so new to this forum (hey, I haven't even taken delivery of my S 100D yet!), but...

Ford will almost certainly win. He can win seats in areas of Toronto that have historically been impossible for the tories to win since the Mike Harris era. Canada, Ontario, Toronto, nowhere is immune to the populist wave, and the opportunists like Ford who are willing to say anything to pander to an oversimplified world view. In turn, prosperity has eluded most normal people, and even though they have access to a relatively high standard of living, they feel ignored, belittled and exploited. People who feel that way aren't inclined to vote for Kathleen Wynne's brand of virtue signalling oneupmanship, even leaving aside the clear history of abuse of power and corruption in the current and immediately preceding government.

These days, whenever anybody tells you that there is no way X or Y politician can win, it's usually because the idea of them winning is so distasteful. The reality is a large segment of the voting population doesn't care about your feelings of distaste. Politicians like Ford are also unconstrained by normal political realities. He is, like his brother, a pathological liar and fantasist whose supporters get a kick out of how much the "elites" hate him. It's not possible to defeat him with logic, reason or policy, and like Trump, at least in an election campaign, he's immune to most of the good arguments as to why he shouldn't be trusted to pump gas, let alone run a Province.

With all of that said, I don't believe even Ford could be worse than the current government. And given that I think Ford is a repulsive individual, that tells you how little I think of Wynne.
Disclosure: PC party member, in a dominant PC area (Dufferin-Caledon). I had Ford third on my ballot

A lot of this hype for Ford is due to him winning the nomination. Remember, this is 70,000 right-of-centre voters. Ontario is generally NOT right of centre.
The PC's have been in the lead for a while. DoFo hasn't said anything stupid since his nomination. But he will. More than once.

Just wait for the soft C or right L to go back to the Liberals. Count on it

The PC's are again waiting to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory
 
Disclosure: PC party member, in a dominant PC area (Dufferin-Caledon). I had Ford third on my ballot

A lot of this hype for Ford is due to him winning the nomination. Remember, this is 70,000 right-of-centre voters. Ontario is generally NOT right of centre.
The PC's have been in the lead for a while. DoFo hasn't said anything stupid since his nomination. But he will. More than once.

Just wait for the soft C or right L to go back to the Liberals. Count on it

The PC's are again waiting to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory
My ballot didn't come in time, he would have been third on mine as well.

Who knows maybe he'll energize the Fringe right to come out and vote. I think I'll just hold my nose and vote PC. I'm in Caledon as well.
 
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People keep talking about how he did in the mayoral race, but I think there's a point that isn't discussed. I remember there being open discussion that he was running to keep the mayor's chair open for Rob, and that when Rob recovered from cancer, Doug would resign to trigger a byelection, and Rob would then be back in office. If memory serves, Doug even said as much at the time.

Given that, we don't really know how many people voted for Doug Ford because they actually wanted him to be mayor versus how many people just wanted to give Rob a chance to come back. My guess is at least some did, and if so, that means that the mayor's race wasn't really a full test of Doug's appeal in an election.
Don't discount that John Tory is and was much more popular than Wynne. X factor could be the NDP vote.
 
agreed!

My question is though... what is the NDP stance on.. well... anything?? I have never voted NDP before and It was always my understanding that the NDP were the middle ground between Libs and Conservatives. Has Andrea Horwath said anything??
I have voted for every party except the NDP because Bob Rae ruined the province the only time they ever got into power in Ontario. They hate big business so that doesn’t help anyone. I’m no fan of Wynne but Ford would be a disaster, just wish the Liberals had gotten rid of Wynne.
 
I'm honestly torn,

The way I see it is this

Vote Liberal - Get $14,000 back for a Tesla Model 3, but probably pay more than that back in new taxes, fees, levies, road tolls, scandals, Skyrocketing hydro bills and be distracted by it all with distracting social justice issues that they bring up

Vote PC - Lose the rebate, but save on my taxes, more highways get built, probably a few scandals where Doug Ford get's into trouble and embarrasses us all

Vote NDP - Rebate probably disappears, as the NDP believes we should all take transit, taxes go through the roof, the unions and social justice warriors run amok and ruin it all

Honestly, the best choice seems to be a Minority PC or Liberal government, keep everyone in check.

It's a tough choice.
We are not going to see toll roads. Selling the 407 was one of the dumbest things the Province ever did and that was done by the PC party and currently the only toll road in Ontario. We are in a situation that the USA faced in the last election. Both leaders are terrible. I already said my piece about the NDP. They just kill growth and business.
 
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