TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Tesla Model X camera like mirror on a Honda Accord??? (video)

Discussion in 'Model X' started by Chris Naps, Feb 27, 2014.

  1. Chris Naps

    Chris Naps Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2014
    Messages:
    183
    Location:
    New Jersey
    #1 Chris Naps, Feb 27, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016
    Hello everyone! When I was browsing YouTube an ad happened appear. I tried to quickly ignore it, until the advertisers bolstered about their new "lanewatch" feature.

    It is exactly the same thing as the Model X, but because of litigation issues, having a plain camera might be a struggle to pass new legislation (safety reasons.)

    It seems as if Honda more than likely said lets put a camera and a mirror together, for those drivers that are technically advanced and for conventional drivers who prefer to stick with the old mirror method.

    I may be wrong, but I have not seen a mirror with a camera on it for lane changing before.

    Check it out yourself:

     
  2. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2011
    Messages:
    13,257
    Location:
    Sarasota, FL
    Exactly the same as on my RV; it's been on many RV marques for a couple of years now.
     
  3. MikeL

    MikeL some guy

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    1,042
    Location:
    Salt Lake City, UTAH USA
    Thanks Chris
    2 things:

    1. They show it's 'image by request', she pushes a button to get a quick look. I imagine the X side displays continuously available, especially if no mirrors.

    and 2. car commercials are painful to watch :rolleyes:
     
  4. Chris Naps

    Chris Naps Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2014
    Messages:
    183
    Location:
    New Jersey

    Hey MikeL,
    You are welcome - You bring up a very pertinent point. If you take a look at the Model X interior, it is pretty much impossible to actually have the mirrors going simultaneously at the same time. Let me explain: If you take a look at: model x.PNG It is the same design as the current Model S. The only way for the car to have two mirrors running simultaneously, would have to be more like this: model x2.PNG (not the best illustration, but it gets the point across.) Technically, for someone to use the mirror it would seem as if a blinker would have to be activated. That is if it even gets past legislation, which if I am right will NOT. Unless they put two additional screens on the side of the dashboard LCD to constantly run the mirrors.

    This is just a theory, but I do bring up a pertinent point as well.
     
  5. Oski

    Oski Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2013
    Messages:
    18
    Location:
    El Macero, CA
    Why would they not just put screens on the doors in the same place you would currently look to see the mirrors? Seems like the most logical place...
     
  6. T B

    T B President, Tesla Club Sweden

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2012
    Messages:
    65
    Location:
    Sweden
    The picture you are referring to actually already shows the rear mirror camera images to the left and right of the spedometer.

    View attachment 44311

    I recon the information that was shown next to the spedometer in Model S will be moved to the center screen in Model X. Only the spedometer will remain in the smaller screen at the wheel, together with the rear mirror camera images.
     
  7. mikevbf

    mikevbf Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2012
    Messages:
    794
    Location:
    vermont
    This has probably already been suggested just like everything else in the years of waiting, but here it goes. If it is legal to have these cameras and it is legal to have conventional mirrors that fold back, maybe it would be legal to have conventional side mirrors that would retract flush with the doors at a push of a button. The side view cameras could be set to go on the second the retract mirrors button was pushed. This way everyone wins. Regardless of regulations this is how I would want it set up. Then if the camera lens got dirty or blocked, I would always have a back up conventional mirror.
     
  8. Nubo

    Nubo Test Mule

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2013
    Messages:
    287
    Location:
    SF Bay Area

    That is too awesome! And a safer glance with the whole left/right picture right there, not far from the road view. Most of the speedo could be implemented with a degree of transparency for even more visibility.
     
  9. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    4,497
    Location:
    Maine
    Not quite. It's been suggested that they could put "emergency" mirrors that fold flush to the body. If so they'd need an eye-line to it. But it would be good to keep people looking in the general direction of the mirrors.
     
  10. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Messages:
    11,923
    This has been the setup they've shown for a while (even at the premiere event), however I can't see how it's 100% practical. I'd miss the info (navigation and music especially) presented next to the speedo. So, unless they find another way to integrate our options there or do something like Honda where there's a normal mirror, but you can call up your cameras there if you'd like, I'm not sure how it's going to work.

    P.S. the narrator for that commercial was hard to listen to.
     
  11. Chris Naps

    Chris Naps Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2014
    Messages:
    183
    Location:
    New Jersey
    #11 Chris Naps, Mar 1, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2014
    I have to respectfully disagree. Here is why: If you are correct and the LCD dashboard are the mirrors and they run constantly, then where would the dashboard navigation, energy consumption meter, etc.. (all of the customization features that are implemented on the Model S) be located? But lets say you are correct, then that would mean that the dashboard features would either be eliminated from the dashboard or they would be overtop of the LCD mirrors located to the right and left of the speedometer. If this is true that the features are overtop of the mirrors, then Tesla, as an entity, is almost certainly asking for a lawsuit. That is similar to a company providing a large logo overtop of the mirror you are suppose to use in order to stay safe. This would nonetheless increase hazarderous road conditions, which resulted because of a visibility blockage. It takes one person to blame that their visibility was blocked because of the manufacturer and because of the blockage it happened to triggered an accident resulting in the death of an individual; all because of an overlapping navigation screen, consumption meter, etc.. A law might be implemented because of this that would possibly restrict cameras and that would enable a massive recall which would crumble the stock. To me it is just not worth the liability of it being on the dashboard. where overlapping features would be located.

    The only thing that I can think of is exactly what Honda did in the video, turn the camera's on when either the left or right blinker is activated. This would allow for the intuative customization features that the Model S employs to be applicable to the Model X. I might be wrong though, but in the picture the wood panel is large enough to fit two EXTRA screens that might host the blinker screens (exemplified in my post above.)

    Another reason that I believe the cameras are only a concept is because at night headlights can be extremely bright to a human eye, and even brighter to a camera lense. The same goes for when it is very dark, a rear view camera cannot be visibly clear enough to use (do to the camera pointing at the headlights of other vehicles) and the visibility gets worse with rain and snow. A camera is not similar to a human eye when it comes to adjusting to light. At night there would be a need for an few IR (infrared) lights and infrared requires A LOT of energy to run constantly which can impact battery performance and they can also be expensive.

    That is why Honda, in my mind, took the right approach when they added a camera with a mirror to mitigate the many challenges that would have been encountered if they preferably went with only camera mirrors.
    I am not saying it is not 'do-able', but I am saying that side mirrors are more of a safety feature rather than anything else. One is able to quickly react to hazardous road conditions easier with conventional mirrors than with technically advanced cameras.
     
  12. JohnQ

    JohnQ Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2012
    Messages:
    1,585
    Location:
    Redding, CT
    I don't think that this will be the case. It's a poor design. I use my side mirrors constantly and shouldn't have to activate a turn signal just to get the view. Can also be confusing for those around me.
     
  13. MikeL

    MikeL some guy

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    1,042
    Location:
    Salt Lake City, UTAH USA
    Chris, really, because something is like it is, changing it is asking for a lawsuit? Really? What if the first Tesla had had real time side view monitors aside the speedo? That would be cool. Would you then say that replacing them w the power consumption & music display screens was reason for a lawsuit because there were no longer side view monitors? The only constant is change
    On my electric car, I'd like the change to be for the better. ML
     
  14. Oski

    Oski Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2013
    Messages:
    18
    Location:
    El Macero, CA
    On the contrary, with the proper setup and control software, a camera and screen can be much more cable than a simple mirror. Modern systems can adjust to bright light and compensate much faster than the human eye.
     
  15. riceuguy

    riceuguy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2012
    Messages:
    169
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Well, I love innovation as much as or more than the next guy, but the other day my center console rebooted itself while I was driving; had that happened to the dashboard instead and I was left mirror less for 45-90 seconds, I'd have gotten a bit flustered for sure. I get that the aerodynamics are key to range, but this strikes me as pushing it a bit...
     
  16. EchoDelta

    EchoDelta Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2012
    Messages:
    732
    Location:
    Seattle, Planet Earth
    I think this is a great example that wherever the cameras get displayed have super high reliability. Leaving you without driving instructions is less likely to be critical in a given instant than seeing traffic.

    Also, from a pure net efficiency perspective, hopefully the removal of mirrors is a net efficiency gain vs true mirrors (comparing the capital and supply chain expense of both and the operational cost of both)
     
  17. Chris Naps

    Chris Naps Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2014
    Messages:
    183
    Location:
    New Jersey
    #17 Chris Naps, Mar 2, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2014
    Hello Mike,
    I appreciate and also understand the frustration. I wrote what I mentioned above for a specific purpose. It is to bring attention to certain points we must all understand. When I stated something on the lines of, "changing it is asking for a lawsuit.." This notion is very common. In multiple studies and with a common knowledge of people in general, people are actually unwilling to 'change' - change can occur if curiosity or attention is achieved. This statement may not seem pertinent enough to the point or even true, but nonetheless thousands of studies from reputable scholars can be accessed in regards to my statements. Getting to the point, in reference to another post on these forums, Tesla as we all know has engaged in "direct sales" to customers. This is a HARMLESS act in order to minimize the norm (meaning cutting out the middle man or con artists - the Dealership.) You would think that since no harm, no foul (- wrong). New York's politicians are trying to pass legislation to ban such an act from happening (direct sales.) This would evidently loop back to what I said before, "people are unwilling to change." You are 100% correct I would most definitely LOVE to see a camera on the dashboard for the two side mirrors, but lets face facts, the liability is far superior than any customer anxiety over such a product. Tesla WILL play their cards right and they WILL choose to invoke safety over passion. That would evidently mean that mirrors would win the battle on this tail end.
    I hope I do not receive a nasty written response in regards to my statements. I am looking at the situation in a general liability sense. I have provided a multitude of reasons,facts, and sources that illustrate my point. But, before I finish up, I would like to provide one more reason on why I hold by my statements and it was greatly enforced by:
    I believe this quote signifies why I heavily stand by my statements. By law a mirror would have to be situated on the car, which if one would like to argue - is the camera, and then I would agree. But at the point of a console rebooting while driving, this driver lost his mirrors for 45-90 seconds. This would have rendered the car for that time period "illegal" because the vehicle was missing both mirrors, while on the road. If an accident happened to occur during that time, wouldn't that mean it was a software issue? And if it was a software issue, wouldn't that mean that Tesla as an entity was the sole proprietor, catalysis, but also including the scapegoat to this unfortunate incident that could have been evaded if only conventional mirrors were situated on the vehicle? At this point the judge will definitely take what I said into a large consideration and most likely find Tesla guilty of negligence and that is only the start because a massive recall could happen as well.
    Mike, I am not fully directing this response to you by no means, but more or less to the vast majority of people who comment on this subject. It is always good to know all the sides before ever claiming the shape. One could only know 3 sides of the story, but miss out on the 4th and happen to claim it as a triangle, when it actually was a square the whole time.
    Reference to Federal laws on mirrors: http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=571.111
    Reference to State by State laws on mirrors: http://ecomodder.com/wiki/index.php/Mirror_Laws_by_State_(U.S.)

    This is true and false, it is a generalized claim. It would be cool if Tesla used a camera with a fisheye lense and then had a proprietary system to calcuate distances in order for the driver to know where the car is, regardless if he can see them or not. For an example lets say that the lights of a car happens to be blinding the camera lense and the driver cannot accurately 'guestimate' the distance of the car on the side of the driver. The computer should already lock on and tell the driver the exact distance and whether or not it is safe enough to pass. This would eliminate the worry for night time glare. http://youtu.be/i33oMn6TOQI <- This video is a great example of how driving at night with a camera can be extremely dangerous at times when car lights glare into the camera, which in many cases hinder it unusable.

    Cameras are good and can be effective, but at what price? Systems that can adjust to bright light, turn from color, IR, or even thermal are not cheap by any means. A conventional mirror could cost $100 or less and a camera well over $1,000. But yes, cameras can be effective. It all depends on what type of lense Tesla uses as well, if they use a fisheye lense, which I mentioned before, it will INACCURATELY portray a vehicle to be MUCH closer or FURTHER than the object actually is, which what I have been saying before, can overall be a safety issue than anything else and I for one would not risk my safety or my passengers safety for any 'cool aerodynamic camera.' Would you???
     
  18. Oski

    Oski Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2013
    Messages:
    18
    Location:
    El Macero, CA
    What is false about my statement?
     
  19. MikeL

    MikeL some guy

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    1,042
    Location:
    Salt Lake City, UTAH USA
    Chris, it's no problem & I am loathe to get into arguments w my Tesla buddies over details because the Model X will be stellar (no other option for Tesla unlike the legacy brands that roll out so much crap supported by a few successful profitable models) I took issue w one thing which was that the dash screens are set up to show certain things (on the Model S) so a change to making them display something else is asking for trouble. What struck me as odd is that those screens, and what shows on them, didn't even exist at all just a year or so ago. And now we can't change them? Oh, and Elon Musk would likely tell you that building a car and a car company from scratch really IS asking for all kinds of trouble. :smile:

    Now I would add to your response that the ONLY people who do not want to change the dealership model are the dealerships. Vested interests, rent seekers, political funders. I will always remember a comment to an article about Tesla's fight for change that described car dealerships as "universally despised" ! My money is on Tesla - literally. ML
     
  20. T B

    T B President, Tesla Club Sweden

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2012
    Messages:
    65
    Location:
    Sweden
    On the center screen.
     

Share This Page