Tesla Model X vs Lexus 450h

[Rapp]

Hi all,

I've been a Lexus loyalist for almost 25 years ('96 ES, '01 RX, '03 LS, '10 LS, '12 RX, '16 GSF). I'm in market for a SUV and I'm seriously considering a 2020 RX 450h (luxury package). I'm also considering 2020 Tesla Model X. Offers I have are about $40K apart. Fortunately, it's not an issue for me. However I do want to invest in a cool and yet reliable car. What I like about Tesla is cool tech (auto pilot, self-driving, etc.), pretty good battery range 300+ miles (rated for 351 miles) and very very low ongoing maintenance. And of course performance as well. However, Tesla doesn't have same luxury feel like RX and reliability as well. I really want to make sure I'm doing the right thing by buying a Model X.

I'd appreciate any advice or criteria I can objectively apply. Thanks.

 

[TxTortoise]

Service experience on totally different ends of scale. Completely different corporate objectives and practice, even with the slide of Lexus recently. (context...LX470, LX570 and a couple of LS430s...and considering a 2017 LS460 Ultra)

RX doesn't have the LS or LS build quality, but even there you may be disappointed with how the X compares. Plus both X and S are in dire need of a refresh.

Most people love their Teslas, for the tech, not the customer service or build quality.

I looked hard at an S and X, ordered a Y and keep deferring delivery due to the QC issues that continue to be reported. Bought a 2006 LS 430 to keep me happy while I figure out what to do. ;-)

The 450H give you a big performance boost, but isn't really a competitor to a pure EV, and not even close to being in the same ball park in drive tech.

All that said, I'd be real tempted to jump to the X, if they'd lose the gull wings... ;-)

 

[dlsspy]

I couldn't imagine having to drive another vehicle from my grandfather's generation. My wife borrowed her father's truck recently and it's been a miserable (and expensive) experience for her.

I'm not super acquainted with Lexus, but I've not seen any products for them that wouldn't be a generationally severe downgrade for me.

 

[Kuhz]

Test drive the X. You’ll buy it

 

[TxTortoise]

I couldn't imagine having to drive another vehicle from my grandfather's generation. My wife borrowed her father's truck recently and it's been a miserable (and expensive) experience for her.

I'm not super acquainted with Lexus, but I've not seen any products for them that wouldn't be a generationally severe downgrade for me.

It's a niche thing. The LS430 is arguably the best quality car Lexus ever built. Mechanics and others suck them up, if in good condition and with a good service record. Easily a 300K mile car, if one is inclined to drive it that long. But it's an old car, and usually driven by folks of a certain age, or lowered as cruiser....some awesome cruisers out there.

 

[rcho8]

But service sucks, no loaners for most of the time, only uber credits, weeks of wait time for parts and appointment. also make sure you test drive the one you are buying before you sign any paper works, you still have 7 days to return it, better just to make sure you are getting an issue free one, not all Tesla are build the same. I have a Sep. 2018 Model X long range, Love the Vehicle,.. but hate the service in chicagoland area, seems like they just hire people that don't care. my vehicle have been in and out over 20+ times.. and still have issues, mostly rattling, noise. every time when they fix something they end up breaking plastic trims/tabs, even the brand new parts that they replace is in worse shape than the original one that comes with the vehicle. very long story..

Not trying to tell you not to buy a Tesla, But let you know what you are getting in to before you buy one. I have read about issues. and expected them, before I place my order. If I could choose again. I would buy another Tesla. Because there is nothing else in the Market that could complete with a Tesla, Price, Tech, fast (torque), Range.

My next vehicle will be CyberTruck.

 

[verygreen]

If you think you only need a reliable and luxurious car, Tesla is not for you. That said

Test drive the X. You’ll buy it

after a long enough test-drive you might decide that reliability or luxury are not all that important. Or not, only you can decide what's really important to you.

 

[verygreen]

Range

obviously gas cars far outcompete Tesla on this front.

 

[KingRaptor]

You said fortunately price difference isn’t a big issue...so get both: Model X for the tech and torque and RX450h for the reliability! Kidding aside, I have a GS350 and Model X. Both are amazing but the Lexus has been to service fewer times than the Tesla even being a 2013 vs 2016. Lexus maintenance is super easy and I do it all myself; the Tesla has no maintenance that I could do and I’ve taken it into service for a rusted steering rack, broken charge port, and failing 12V.

With the new MCU2 and HW3 computer in the Model X, I confidently feel the tech is better than the Lexus which I added in a unit for Apple CarPlay myself. Before, on MCU1 in the Tesla, the tech arguably wasn’t as much of an advantage.

 

[garrett5688]

Toyota and Lexus are rock solid reliable but they’ve got to be some of the most boring cars on the market. And we’ve had several over the years...

Tesla is just so much more enjoyable, despite the lesser quality and service experience.

The model x is a boat - suggest you test drive before deciding.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Like comparing an apple to an orange.
RX Hybrid is a different market. The basic car is very bland. Not fast, good handling or especially efficient. Gives quiet ride, but little driving satisfaction. It sells on Style, Bling and luxury interior.

Their biggest market is "Ladies that Lunch" or sell Real Estate. They buy them one after another as they are quiet, easy to drive and give a great first impression.

The Model X is on a whole different level. Fast, Smooth, efficient, great range, quiet and all electric drive. Simply plug in at night and you have a full tank every morning. It is the future. No more obnoxious gas and constantly shifting gears. They are thrilling to drive and will put the Lexus to shame with perfromance.

You gotta drive one to get an understanding of what a giant leap this is for personal transportation.

The Lexus Hybrid is just a stepping stone with it 1/2 gasser-1/2 electric. This comprimise is interesting, but has one foot in the future, with the other in the past.

Owning a Model X has been transformational for me, and for many others. Yesterday we took a drive up into the mountains above LA. It powered up the curving mountain roads like nothing else. Adaptive suspension kept the body flat without lean or tire squeal. The air suspension want useful when we went down some agressive back country fire roads to get to a stream for picnicking. When back on the mountain roads we lowered it back down in the twisty bits. We cruised up to a Ski resort, and hiked around some trails, checked out some wilderness camp sights for later visits. Drove back down the mountain and noticed how we never needed to touch the brakes as the regenerative braking system slowed the car while putting all those wasted electrons back into the battery. We arrived at the bottom with 20 more miles of range than when we began out descent.

Don't get me started on how much Autopilot has made my commutes and long distance travel so much easier and less tiring. Takes so much of the stress away when in use.

Hard to take away from the appeal of the snazzy looking RX, but the reality is that underneath all that lipstick...it is still a pig.

 

[roblab]

obviously gas cars far outcompete Tesla on this front.

Obviously? With my car, I have 400 miles of range. That's like SIX HOURS of driving. I never even think about filling up anywhere. On the few times I actually need that kind of range, there are FREE filling stations every hundred miles or so. Gas cars really out-compete on this front. Not only do you have to find a gas station (I know, there are millions) but you usually get to pump your own gas in the freezing rain or wind. And let's toss in the fun part of getting to take your car in for service several times a year or so for oil changes, filters, plugs, whatever while you get someone to pick you up and take you home, or sit while the service department takes HOURS to change your oil. Oh, yeah. Fun.

Four hundred miles. How often do you go more than that? Once a year? Twice? So, yeah, gas cars out compete on that front. But that usually means the gas car sits in the garage half full or less, while the Tesla charges off the wall and is always full. Not very many owners of gas burners have a gas pump in the garage. And that brings up the fact that gas has the explosive power of EIGHT sticks of dynamite per gallon. Smoke if y' got 'em!

And we don't even start on the fact that gas burners pollute. 70% of all pollution is from transportation, and that mostly means cars, not just trucks. Yeah, gas cars sure out compete. And don't hit me with "but the electric power company burns Natural Gas"... I have 68 solar panels. And batteries. And a Tesla.

 

[verygreen]

With my car, I have 400 miles of range

at 60mph and only once (since you cannot charge to 100% on the way in any realistic time, and cannot discharge to 0 often enough either)? well, My gas car does 400 miles on 80mph (=5 hours) and "recharges" in 5 minutes.

I never even think about filling up anywhere

of course not, the car nags you all the time. Along with "please drive under XXmph to reach your destination

FREE filling stations every hundred miles

they are not free, you paid for them upfront.

but you usually get to pump your own gas in the freezing rain or wind

full service gas pumps are a thing if you prefer.

And let's toss in the fun part of getting to take your car in for service several times a year or so for oil changes

As opposed to Tesla where you get a chance for your car to spend weeks in service as they correct stuff that they were supposed to find at the factory during QA process, yeah.

Four hundred miles

it's a lie. You don't get that at highway speeds.

How often do you go more than that? Once a year? Twice?

In the last 30 days I had two 1.5k miles roadtrips...

And that brings up the fact that gas has the explosive power of EIGHT sticks of dynamite per gallon. Smoke if y' got 'em!

dont' forget that Tesla also self combust at times, so it's not the gas car property alone.

That said it's all a tradeoff. And I have a Tesla not because I love all the QA issues or the charging downtime or the road noise or .... That does not mean those issues are any less annoying than they sound, that just means I value some upsides of Tesla cars more than I dislike the downsides. But different people have different priorities and by glossing over downsides you are potentially set people for disappointment. It's best when people enter into a Tesla (or any other expensive purchase) purchase fully informed, I think.

And we don't even start on the fact that gas burners pollute

Tesla cars pollute a lot too, the heavier the car, the higher is the particulate pollution from tires and road. And let's not forget the car production is not exactly super clean process.

I have 68 solar panels

I am sure you have a great trailer to use them on a roadtrip for extra clean charging too.

 

[msm859]

If you think you only need a reliable and luxurious car, Tesla is not for you. That said



after a long enough test-drive you might decide that reliability or luxury are not all that important. Or not, only you can decide what's really important to you.

I would disagree with your comment about "luxury". What is the definition of luxury? Fine leather, real wood, plush interior? I would suggest luxury is walking up to your car and having the driver door open for you. Getting inside and simply touch the brake and the door closes for your. Being able to control all other doors with your key fob or front screen. Never going to a gas station. Getting OTA updates that makes your car better today then it was 6 months ago when you bought it. The smooth seamless power - would blow the doors of the RX. The Falcon wing doors - yes they are a luxury. A vehicle that impresses when you drive up - that's luxury - remember those Falcon wind doors. Autopilot - that's luxury. The safest car on the road - that's luxury. Sadly there was a recent story about a kid who was killed when their car was carjacked as they waited inside with engine running ac on while the parents ran in to get some food. In the Tesla X no problem - the doors would be locked, the car would not move without the keys and your kids would be comfortable inside with the AC on - no ICE running necessary. So if you want performance and luxury...........

 

[Vivelemond]

I would recommend a careful test drive of the X. I just bought a MY and the noise and ride qualify are very disappointing, and people report the X being loud too. I don't know, but the main issue with the Tesla's are noise issues, which are very annoying. You'd want to really make sure you like it before buying would be my advice.

 

[verygreen]

I would disagree with your comment about "luxury". What is the definition of luxury? Fine leather, real wood, plush interior? I would suggest luxury is walking up to your car and having the driver door open for you. Getting inside and simply touch the brake and the door closes for your. Being able to control all other doors with your key fob or front screen. Never going to a gas station. Getting OTA updates that makes your car better today then it was 6 months ago when you bought it. The smooth seamless power - would blow the doors of the RX. The Falcon wing doors - yes they are a luxury. A vehicle that impresses when you drive up - that's luxury - remember those Falcon wind doors. Autopilot - that's luxury. The safest car on the road - that's luxury. Sadly there was a recent story about a kid who was killed when their car was carjacked as they waited inside with engine running ac on while the parents ran in to get some food. In the Tesla X no problem - the doors would be locked, the car would not move without the keys and your kids would be comfortable inside with the AC on - no ICE running necessary. So if you want performance and luxury...........

While motorized doors are good and all that, they are not be all end all of a luxury. Some people want extra comfortable seats, some want leather, some want a quiet ride,... In a Tesla you have no customization (Which is a big part of luxury too), you accept what they give you or not.

You still go to a gas station because superchargers don't have the windshield cleaning squeegees Don't forget that gas stations on a roadtrip are orders of magnitude more convenient due to their "recharging speed" and numbers. OTA is also a two way street that sometimes makes your car worse. Also others offer OTA nowadays too.

The Tesla ADAS is decent but again, the robust parts (BAP) are hardly unique and the not so robust parts are gimmicks that are mostly unusable today (e.g. the enhanced summon or the stupid NoA or the traffic light babysitting) and cost way more than the utility they provide so spending money on it is not super smart in my opinion.

 

[KingRaptor]

While motorized doors are good and all that, they are not be all end all of a luxury. Some people want extra comfortable seats, some want leather, some want a quiet ride,... In a Tesla you have no customization (Which is a big part of luxury too), you accept what they give you or not.

You still go to a gas station because superchargers don't have the windshield cleaning squeegees Don't forget that gas stations on a roadtrip are orders of magnitude more convenient due to their "recharging speed" and numbers. OTA is also a two way street that sometimes makes your car worse. Also others offer OTA nowadays too.

The Tesla ADAS is decent but again, the robust parts (BAP) are hardly unique and the not so robust parts are gimmicks that are mostly unusable today (e.g. the enhanced summon or the stupid NoA or the traffic light babysitting) and cost way more than the utility they provide so spending money on it is not super smart in my opinion.

Green’s evaluations and notes are more objective and covers the pros as well as the cons of Tesla vs other ICE cars.

I chance to say some of the other posters haven’t ever owned a Lexus and are speaking about ICE luxury cars in general. For example, on the argument of smoothness, note that the RX450h uses an eCVT with its electric motor so there is also “smooth acceleration without gear shift interruptions”. Lexus cars and suvs hardly have any major maintenance; some maintenance yes (oil change every 10K miles, air filter change every 30K miles, spark plugs every 120K miles on RX I think) so definitely not like the way the other posts make it sound where you are “in service all year long”. When you go to service at Lexus, there is no “waiting hours for oil change” or “must have someone pick you up”, you get loaner vehicles. Contrary, Tesla service is hit or miss - sometimes you get loaners, other times you get Uber credits which during the pandemic, I’ve always had to plan and scheduling around getting picked up by my wife in case the SC didn’t have loaners...

 

[Rapp]

Service experience on totally different ends of scale. Completely different corporate objectives and practice, even with the slide of Lexus recently. (context...LX470, LX570 and a couple of LS430s...and considering a 2017 LS460 Ultra)

RX doesn't have the LS or LS build quality, but even there you may be disappointed with how the X compares. Plus both X and S are in dire need of a refresh.

Most people love their Teslas, for the tech, not the customer service or build quality.

I looked hard at an S and X, ordered a Y and keep deferring delivery due to the QC issues that continue to be reported. Bought a 2006 LS 430 to keep me happy while I figure out what to do. ;-)

The 450H give you a big performance boost, but isn't really a competitor to a pure EV, and not even close to being in the same ball park in drive tech.

All that said, I'd be real tempted to jump to the X, if they'd lose the gull wings... ;-)

My thoughts are quite similar. In a sense I'm forcing a comparison while they are different cars built by companies with different vision and objectives. Thanks for your feedback.

 

[Rapp]

I couldn't imagine having to drive another vehicle from my grandfather's generation. My wife borrowed her father's truck recently and it's been a miserable (and expensive) experience for her.

I'm not super acquainted with Lexus, but I've not seen any products for them that wouldn't be a generationally severe downgrade for me.

I tend to keep my cars for long, like 10 years. What I like about Tesla is to get upgrades by SW. That's pretty cool. Not something "grandfather's generation" cars can do .

 

[Rapp]

Test drive the X. You’ll buy it

I did. It was awesome: acceleration, handling, drive quality, especially for a 5,000 + lbs car! However, when I returned to dealership, one of the rear doors wouldn't close (eventually it did close) and the rep mentioned that it "happens" at times.