From most of the complaints I’ve read here that can’t be further from the truth. Most complaints are about tesla being greedy and charging customers 200 in 2022 when they didn’t previously.
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Tesla Model Y Standard Range AWD to be priced at $59,990 USD
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Do you really think Tesla cares about $200 when they've been raising prices $2,000 every other month? It's 100% a supply chain issue.
I have no issues with charging me 200 for a mobile charger device. A lot of complaints recently on this board says otherwise.
It's just a distraction from a much more serious issue. Apparently it's working.
I doubt very much that it will get 280; in our real everyday driving world, it will probably end up getting about 220-250 depending on your driving
If you consider success model Y had had, and the fact that moment you add 2 child seats in the back — anything else (or rather a big segment of market) is for most part just a experimental or intermediate stuff where they develop the technology to finally get to SUV (and not the compact ones). I won’t even consider i3 given the typical needs. So to say based on that vehicle (and non existent charging infrastructure around i3) and general market awareness around EVs (for most folks till Tesla arrived EVs weren’t even a thing to consider… I’ve known Prius and bunch of other hybrid owners who in general never really grasped the true aspect of an EV) — that Plug in Hybrid isn’t as desirable is incorrect IMHO.
The instant torque on those 1.5 lane “highways” with an old pal blocking one lane, quiet operation, and other Tesla like features like app and all that stuff — they will have solid segment given they can provide easy transition to buyers not willing to fork ~70k on an EV which may be something totally new to them having owned many many ICE cars over last 20-30 years. This is more so given that metal demands and EV supply chain issues will continue to be big issues at least over next 3-4 years and ever evolving tech around that. It feels almost like mid 2000s with Blackberry still a big thing. EVs are the future but charging infrastructure has a long long way to go (drives away from main highways and most parts of this big country) — and not having a ICE backup is something I’m not yet convinced is smart (even living the Tesla/EV thing and having tried to be just on EVs past 3 yrs or so). I do take the point against Plug In Hybrids with maintenance (especially ICE specific parts). But that “backup” thing when driving on cold east coast winters in the middle of nowhere when even your cell signal turns spotty in remote hilly areas, so forget about a supercharger. Given the price hikes (close to 50k to 65k now for eg for Model Y) — a smaller battery (lighter weight overall compared to say full blown EV), but enough to cover daily driving needs for a growing family so giving most benefits of EV, while ICE providing that solid backup for remote area trips or even large suburbs — it will be a big draw
What I’m wary of plug in hybrids is car companies not being keen to invest in building and maintaining the more complicated manufacturing and sourcing process with EV + ICE parts. That does complicate stuff - the cost saving touted by Elon Musk with 4680 a case in point. Simplicity does have its merit and money value.
PS - I totally hate(!) the ICE. Hated going to gas stations even before EVs were a thing, oil changes and any maintenance issues. Uggghh those ‘mechanical’ issues. Love Tesla but also hate Tesla now - they’re no different than any other “corporation” and feel they are less focused on improving quality of cars than landing mankind of MARS. That may be a passing thing (hating Tesla part) if Tesla keeps coming out with amazing stuff in their cars. Buttt, where we are with ‘range loss’ (total nonsense imo - they should specify specs removing the 20% lower limit and 90% higher limit on battery for new buyers - may be LFP chemistry solves this?), and steep up/down with prices and “inflationary pressures” with a minor cloudburst and removing lumbar support or mobile chargers based on ‘usage data’ or home link - I feel less confident of Tesla (EVs are totally awesome, tech just needs to get better … 225 mile range is not yet there IMO)
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Again. With all these new EV, where are u going to charge on the road? So to me , $40k Toyota BZ or ID4 type of EV is the same as a $100k plus Benz EV. If that’s the case, I’ll just get a used leaf type of Ev to commute. Or a used Prius!
Here’s a great video on incoming new EV. Jump to the end, totally agreed with what he said. Tesla big advantage is still their SC!
Here’s a great video on incoming new EV. Jump to the end, totally agreed with what he said. Tesla big advantage is still their SC!
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Exelion
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PHV's are desirable. There's plenty of people out there that still want that super long range of gasoline for those trips, even though 200 miles range is probably about as much as a human body can take before having to stop for some other reason anyway.
The point I was getting at is that increasing electric range in PHV's isn't desirable because that would be taking away more valuable space from inside the vehicle. Take the Prius Prime or Chevy Volt, for example. You have an engine AND an electric motor in the front. Then you have a transmission, gas tank under the rear passenger seats, PLUS a battery stuffed somewhere (trunk or central tunnel), electric motor controls, and a slew of other stuff associated with both drive systems. For both of these cars, if you want to increase the range to 100 miles, you'd have to double, triple, or quadruple the battery size, which of course, will eat up more trunk or passenger space.
So no, manufacturers are probably going to keep it somewhere around 20-50 miles electric range tops. Good enough for around town, as they say.
How about showing the new 2023 Mercedes Benz EQS 450 SUV video?
EPIC, AMAZING, WOW; This one will be hard to beat.
How about showing the new 2023 Mercedes Benz EQS 450 SUV video?
EPIC, AMAZING, WOW; This one will be hard to beat.
I need to check it out! Please share if u come upon one.
Some of the videos that Bjorn did on the Mercedes and BMW EVs were funny... Like how he kept opening and closing the doors, to hear it close, saying, THAT is how a door should sound when you close it... Of all the other EV's, I really like those two... He even commented how the EQS was much quieter than the rest, and had a superior sound-stage/audio quality... He called it luxury, and everyone else was premium... They just gotta tweak the software a bit... Every once in a while Bjorn finds a peculiar behavior, and he's like, "Shieeeet, these legacy auto makers...."....How about showing the new 2023 Mercedes Benz EQS 450 SUV video?
EPIC, AMAZING, WOW; This one will be hard to beat.
I love tesla and can’t wait for the Y but this SC thing is over rated in my eyes. Most people charge in their garage and never need to use a SC besides road trips. if you even take that many. I usually fly.
Also, it’s pretty easy to start installing charging stations. Don’t be surprised to see it double over the next year or so for the other brands.
Also, it’s pretty easy to start installing charging stations. Don’t be surprised to see it double over the next year or so for the other brands.
I wish! That’s why I bought an ID.4 back late last summer… and since then there have been… zero new CCS DC charging locations added in a 125 mile radius of me in Orlando. That’s almost 10 months ago. Tesla has built 3 new locations and 3 more are coming online in the next few months in the same radius. CCS charging is a joke and continues to be in Florida.
I agree SC are overrated and most of us charge at home (or work) which is why I argue EVs can have 200 mile range because honestly they are all city commuters and CCS based EVs in the US are poor road trippers with the current infrastructure.
ZenRockGarden
Active Member
The whole SC thing is about the ability to confidently take long trips, which a lot of customers want the option to do.
Yes, if your use case is pure local-commuter, SC is mostly a non-issue. But try going 500 miles hoping the public chargers along the way are there, and functioning? Not fun.
yup. totally agreed!
just did A day trip to Monterey bay aquarium from the Bay Area with my family. Drove 114 miles and stop by Starbucks and a quick 10 min charge at the SC there. There was liked 15 stalls and 4 tesla. Plug and play, bathroom break and grab a cup of coffee. $5.80 ish and back up 80%. Having that confidence to do any trips is priceless. Only tesla can provide that kind of experience. btw, I had a $1000 or 10,000 miles EVGo free credit to burn with my first LR Y, it was the worst experience using EVGo compared to using a SC. I never experienced the EA network so I can’t say. I only heard 50/50 bad experience with them. Enough for me to not even consider any other EV if I’m planning to do road tripping
oh yea, I have solar so all my charging is at home.
what I’m saying is that the competition will catch up on the charging side pretty quickly. Especially with the new infrastructure bill pushing for it. Saying SC is a huge advantage is a short term advantage.
ZenRockGarden
Active Member
Only Tesla seriously cares about making a really good charging network, with well located, well maintained stations.
Billions in VW money has been thrown at Electrify America. They started building one station in my town (which has 3 large wonderful supercharger stations and a pile of destination tesla chargers). That one EA station is in the back of a bank parking lot, with 5 rather awkwardly positioned stalls. They started construction over a year ago. It is STILL roped off, not in service, partially completed charging cables hanging in the breeze - no activity for months, no idea if it will ever go in service.
It is challenging to build a good charging network. It is hard to get the location agreements, power infrastructure, utility agreements... Tesla cares and knows how to get it done - it goes directly to their brand image. The rest of everyone? They're happily taking government money, and car-maker money, and that's their market - not the end users. EA doesn't earn more money if their station locations and timing is great or awful - the government and Ford and Kia money is already in the bank and won't change much if the network is well maintained and run or not.
Along with the coming battery-materials-supply crisis (which will hit everyone in the industry, but affect Tesla less than others), there will be a public-charger crisis as all the makers dump electric cars out there with no dedicated charging network - just a 1 year pass the carmaker bought from EA or someone.
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Don’t hold your breath. As @ZenRockGarden said it takes time. This will not be a short term advantage. It will take a decade if that for these other manufacturers to get up to speed. @voxel speak for yourself. We and every other friend I have that has an EV would not have even bought an EV if it weren’t for the Tesla range. It was Tesla or nothing. Range and charging network are a huge deal and if it weren’t there would be a million Leafs running around.
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100% agree. I have said this before. I have waited years to purchase an EV, in spite of wanting one badly, and it is only now that the supercharger network is as mature as it is that, here in EV desert, it is realistic. I just want to visit my daughter in the next state and it's only just become possible. My friend in the Seattle area with a Leaf commutes 15 miles and he's stuck there.
You wouldn't want to road trip in a leaf, even if there are Chademo chargers everywhere... Watch bjorn's video of doing the 1000km challenge with the leaf. It is horrendous, because the battery has no active cooling... After one fast charge session, you are DONE. The battery is too hot, and will throttle for pretty much the rest of the day.. It will basically charge at L2 speeds even when connected to a high power chademo charger. A lot of the EV's bjorn tests can do the 1000km challenge in around 10 hours, with the better ones doing it in less... In bjorn's video of the LEaf with the 62kwh battery, at one of the charging stops, it was charging so slow, he was twiddling his thumbs for TWO HOURS, and then the charger just stopped. It refused to charge the leaf any more, even tho it still wasn't full.. And at the end of the 1000km journey, he found that the trip odometer cant even display numbers bigger than 999.9, lol... That journey took him 15.5 HOURS! That's SIX HOURS slower than what he did with the tesla. It was so bad, that he basically said there was no point in getting the bigger battery, becuase with the lack of active cooling, you won't be able to reliably fast charge it while driving on trips.
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