Jim R
Member
Getting off topic, but go ahead and explain why you believe this is so.Narrow tire can improve the ability of vehicle to be driven when the roads are covered in deep snow.
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Getting off topic, but go ahead and explain why you believe this is so.Narrow tire can improve the ability of vehicle to be driven when the roads are covered in deep snow.
That is what I meant to write; the narrow tire can improve traction when driving on snow covered roads. Deep is a relative term, I did not mean to imply that when driving in snow deeper that the ground clearance of the vehicle that narrower tires would help prevent getting stuck."Deep snow" is relative. If the depth of snow is less than your ground clearance, the narrow tire can improve traction, since they cut down to the road surface. In very deep snow, not so much.
Yes, tire width doesn’t change the size of the contact patch, but it can change the SHAPE of the contact patch. and a wide, narrow contact patch is going to be more susceptible to hydroplaning than a narrow long one. Significantly so.What you say may seem logical but the statements are absolutely not true. No matter the shape of the tire, what matters is the psi, your speed and depth of water. A heavy car on either wide or narrow tires will have the same square footage (square inches ?) of contact with the pavement. The load of the car (weight) say 4000 lbs, will result in 1000 lbs borne by each tire. Each tire will deform until pressure in the tire equals pressure on it. Lets say tire pressure is 100 psi (to make the math easy). 1000 lbs divided by 100 = 10. Ten square inches of contact with the pavement will result, no matter the width of the tire.
I don't blame you for believing what you wrote. It seems logical. But physics says you are mistaken.
Believe what you wish. That's not what the physics formulas say. Calculate your minimum hydroplane speed (9 X square root of tire pressure). Stay below that speed and you won't hydroplane. Go above it and you might, if water depth is enough. Width of your tire doesn't enter into it. It's very tempting to believe various other factors are at play. Science says they are not.Yes, tire width doesn’t change the size of the contact patch, but it can change the SHAPE of the contact patch. and a wide, narrow contact patch is going to be more susceptible to hydroplaning than a narrow long one. Significantly so.
Regardless, the OP claim isn’t about that, it’s just made up or a misperception of reality.
Ive got half a degree in naval architecture and I can assure you the shape of the surface meeting the water absolutely is part of the equation in determining when something stops cutting through water and instead starts riding on top of it. That’s useful when understanding when the combination of surface area, water depth, weight and speed will initiate lift.Believe what you wish. That's not what the physics formulas say. Calculate your minimum hydroplane speed (9 X square root of tire pressure). Stay below that speed and you won't hydroplane. Go above it and you might, if water depth is enough. Width of your tire doesn't enter into it. It's very tempting to believe various other factors are at play. Science says they are not.
Brett11, please report to Tesla at least the hydroplaning problem. I encountered a scary situation like that in my RWD Model S....
Fair enough … but look at the cabin of your MY . How spacious is it ?I've had a few BMWs in the past (3/4 series, M Sport) and although the suspension was firm, it wasn't harsh. My MY w/ 20s is somewhat jarring when going over bumpy terrain. Maybe I am just getting older and appreciate some balance.
Thanks for adding to the discussion. I think the naval architecture problem differs from the one we are discussing here with cars hydroplaning or not. In the naval architecture situation, the boat is always afloat (hopefully) and never in contact with the pavement (reef?) below, enjoying deep water below. So the naval architect is calculating the various lift of a body already fully afloat at various speeds and vessel weights. I don't have the benefit of your education but it seems to me the shape/area of the hull at the waterline will vary with the speed and weight of the vessel.Ive got half a degree in naval architecture and I can assure you the shape of the surface meeting the water absolutely is part of the equation in determining when something stops cutting through water and instead starts riding on top of it. That’s useful when understanding when the combination of surface area, water depth, weight and speed will initiate lift.
Well, it’s afloat before lifting. But the concept is the same.Thanks for adding to the discussion. I think the naval architecture problem differs from the one we are discussing here with cars hydroplaning or not. In the naval architecture situation, the boat is always afloat (hopefully) and never in contact with the pavement (reef?) below, enjoying deep water below. So the naval architect is calculating the various lift of a body already fully afloat at various speeds and vessel weights. I don't have the benefit of your education but it seems to me the shape/area of the hull at the waterline will vary with the speed and weight of the vessel.
So, a run flat tire with zero psi due to a leak has an infinite contact patch since we are dividing by zero... lets say it only has 1 psi of air in it, then in your example above a standard car tire would have 1000 lbs / 1 psi... 1000 inches of contact patch.What you say may seem logical but the statements are absolutely not true. No matter the shape of the tire, what matters is the psi, your speed and depth of water. A heavy car on either wide or narrow tires will have the same square footage (square inches ?) of contact with the pavement. The load of the car (weight) say 4000 lbs, will result in 1000 lbs borne by each tire. Each tire will deform until pressure in the tire equals pressure on it. Lets say tire pressure is 100 psi (to make the math easy). 1000 lbs divided by 100 = 10. Ten square inches of contact with the pavement will result, no matter the width of the tire.
I don't blame you for believing what you wrote. It seems logical. But physics says you are mistaken.
Sorry you don't see the logic. In your 1 psi example, the car would rest on the rims. I don't plan on debating this with you further. My only aim in posting was to convey to people a way to calculate their minimum hydroplane speed, so they could decelerate to below that speed when water pools on the road ahead. Have a pleasant day.So, a run flat tire with zero psi due to a leak has an infinite contact patch since we are dividing by zero... lets say it only has 1 psi of air in it, then in your example above a standard car tire would have 1000 lbs / 1 psi... 1000 inches of contact patch.
I need to get 4 run flats and install them without air so I can out corner an F1 car!
Keith
PS: At first I thought you were joking when you came up with this "information"... now I think you are seriously trying to convince people of this... .Does anyone believe you when you claim to be an expert and spout obvious falsehoods? The thumbs up on your post may be people who are fooled or people who think they are in on the joke... not sure on that.
PPS: I expect a thumbs down from MyEarHurts... guess how much that will hurt my feelings?
Sorry you don't see the logic. In your 1 psi example, the car would rest on the rims. I don't plan on debating this with you further. My only aim in posting was to convey to people a way to calculate their minimum hydroplane speed, so they could decelerate to below that speed when water pools on the road ahead. Have a pleasant day.
The Y is our first EV and we’re loving it. I just dropped it off at the SC and the loaner is an X (2017) Its been several hours and I miss the Y already!FWIW I don't have my Y yet and sometimes have buyers remorse when I read some of the basic issues. But a good buddy of mine picked his up in October. We were texting the other day and he said it's the best purchase he's ever made and he loves the experience.
I'm hoping I'm more that experience than the OP's!