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Tesla Motors European and Asian Rollouts

Discussion in 'Tesla Motors' started by Jackl1956, Jul 7, 2013.

  1. Jackl1956

    Jackl1956 Member

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    I would like to hear from our members who live in Europe and Asia. Specifically their impressions of the Model S and Tesla Motors rollout. Posting local news coverage would be great. I believe that the perception of Tesla Motors on the world stage will be critical to future successes.
     
  2. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    I completely agree with you! No Model S has been delivered outside the US though.

    About the EU there is already a topic: EU finalize and deliveries

    I can't wait until I get mine! It has been 3 years since my reservation.
     
  3. clea

    clea Member

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    why does every one forget Canada?????
     
  4. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    Sorry, that's just my ignorance :) Canada isn't a a part of the US, I know, but for some reason I always see those markets as one.

    My correct wording should have been: No Model S has been delivered outside North America.
     
  5. clea

    clea Member

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    We are not the same market. The important point to this discussion, however, is that having shipped to Canada means that they have gone through the exercise of homologation compliance to another market which will help with the exporting to the even larger market that is represented by the EU.
     
  6. Johann Koeber

    Johann Koeber Member

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    Report from Germany:

    Not many reservations here (several 100). First deliveries expected in August. Tesla has a nice store in Munich. Last week they opened a service center near Munich, mostly for the roadsters (about 200 of them in Germany) and the Model S. I was there on Friday. I saw several MS with German licence plate, but still US Specs.

    They are looking for workers for three more service centers in Germany.

    Some of the reservation holders have been assigned a VIN, others (myself included) have not.

    I finally saw the red (the color I am getting) in person. They seemed to be aligning the alignment machine. Pretty cool. (Note: I am an accountant and tax strategist so to me these mechanical things are real wonders).


    130705 IMG_3701.jpg




    Outside. The signature red looking car in the left bottom is my Lexus.

    130705 IMG_3700.jpg
     
  7. Dborn

    Dborn Confirmed

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    Don't know if we count as "Asia" although our government keeps telling us we are part of the Asian region, but here in Australia, Tesla has gone very silent.This is potentially a largish market. We ARE right hand drive, but so is Hong Kong and Japan as well as England, and HK has already had get amped tours with left drive cars. WE are feeling VERY neglected over here!!
     
  8. hiroshiy

    hiroshiy Active Member

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    Japan is also very slow. I guess 200-300 reservations total? Showroom in Tokyo is located at a nice location but too small to display a Model S. They have a Model S chassis on the first floor so many guess "Tesla is something related to auto parts manufacturer". :)
    I think at least they keep one nice car on the floor where everyone can see. Wrong marketing.
     
  9. SebastianR

    SebastianR Member

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    Does anybody know more about Denmark? Since regular ICE cars have to pay a 185% (not a typo, it's really that high) tax on cars and the Model S is exempt from that tax, I would assume Teslas must sell like crazy here. However, when talking to the guy in the Tesla Shop he was very vague and not so enthusiastic about overall reservation numbers (that's maybe just me overinterpreting his reactions).
     
  10. Benz

    Benz Active Member

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    #10 Benz, Jul 15, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2013
    Wow, 185% tax on ICE cars.
    Has it always been this high?
     
  11. moollar

    moollar Member

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    The silence is deafening. As I mentioned in another thread, 99.99% of Australian's have never heard of Tesla.

    A little OT, but it would be great if someone like Solar City were here in Australia too. We have a HUGE potential for PV systems due to the amount of sunshine we get.

    Anyway, back on topic. As Dborn said, Australia would be a great market for Tesla. We REALLY need to have a lot of the EV myths smashed over here and Tesla is the only company I can think of that could really do this. Having almost no visible presence here means that this will take a while. Feels like we're falling well behind the rest of the developed world in this regard. Will be interesting to see what happens when RHD Model S deliveries start happening in Australia.
     
  12. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    Not to say you guys don't deserve Tesla's awesome cars as much as we (Europeans) do, but I think the problem is just lack of resources insides Tesla.

    They aren't able to keep up with the promises for Europe, so imagine also making promises for Australia.

    Australia is still on my "to visit" list. It would be awesome if I could rent Model S there and do a roadtrip there. I surely hope you guys get attention from Tesla very soon, but imho it's just a matter of resources and manpower.
     
  13. SebastianR

    SebastianR Member

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    Well, it's actually more than that: 25% sales tax plus the (up to) 185% tax on ICE cars. For very small / very environmentally friendly cars the 185% does not fully apply and for EVs it is waived until 2015 (I believe).

    I believe it started during WWII and then was just never removed (though I could be wrong here). Fact is that Denmark does not have their own car makers which makes it an interesting country for traffic policies since we can legislate what makes sense and not what was bought through campaign contributions...
     
  14. lloyds

    lloyds Member

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    It's not going to stop people from buying.
     
  15. VolkerP

    VolkerP EU Model S P-37

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    #15 VolkerP, Jul 15, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2013
    I think the high import duty / tax really is a disadvantage here. But you can turn this into an advantage: Push for legislation to exempt EVs from that tax. You can argue that the financial impact is low due to small numbers of EV that are currently imported. After that, sales of Model S can pull off in volume. :smile:
     
  16. moollar

    moollar Member

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    Yeah, we have a Luxury Car Tax (LCT) of 33% for the total delivered value of a vehicle for each marginal dollar above ~$60k for a regular ICE vehicle and ~$75k for a "Fuel efficient vehicle". A fuel efficient vehicle is defined as having a fuel consumption of less than 7 litres per 100km (~33.6 US MPG) on the combined cycle. IMO this tax is stupid and will apply to the value above ~$75k for all Model S bought in Australia (I can't see the 60kWh Model S being less than $75k before taxes and duties here). As you rightly said, this is on top of import duties (5%), which is used in determining the value of the car for LCT purposes!

    So, assuming a base price of about ~$75k with the AUD at parity with USD (which I think is conservative - it'll probably be more after homologation and the AUD is no longer above parity versus the USD, etc.) for a 60kWh Model S, you would get the following price in Aus:

    Customs value: $75,000
    + Duty (5%): $3,750
    + Transport (inc. insurance): ~$5,000
    Value at the dock: $83,750
    + GST (10%): $8,375
    LCT value: $92,125
    + LCT ( ($92,125-$75,375)*33% ): $5,528
    Total after LCT: $97,653

    Then you have stamp duty (a state based tax), which would be about $4,100ish for a car that price in NSW, plus delivery and registration. So, even a base Model S will be well over $100k here. That's not quite as bad as it sounds when compared to the price of its competitors (a BMW 528i starts around $108k here), which goes to show how much all these taxes screw us over. One of the differences with Gen III will be that it should hopefully remain under the LCT threshold (or only a marginal amount of LCT payable for a fully spec'd version), but we'll still have all those other taxes.

    If they could do an exemption for any one of these, it would be helpful, but it may be too difficult to do politically with both major political parties on a mission to delivering a federal budget surplus ASAP as part of their election promises this year (even if by doing so, the method of going about it may not be in the best interests of the country). Election years can be annoying.....

    Is that two rants in one thread now? Sorry about that.... :redface:
     
  17. moollar

    moollar Member

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    Yep, this is unfortunately the reality we have to deal with - especially with requiring a RHD version for our market. The frustrating part (which is not Tesla's fault) is the lack of decent EVs at a half decent price here. The Leaf and Volt are OK, but quite expensive compared to their peers. Paying more than $20-25k above other vehicles in their class makes them a hard sell. The same thing happened with the Prius when it first came out in Australia (other hybrids don't sell that well here). At least now the price of the Prius has come down to a level that is close enough to it's rivals to begin being a compelling alternative. As I mentioned in my post to VolkerP, we do pay more for cars in Australia, but that kind of price difference will make it difficult to sell mass market EVs here (apart from to government entities) unless they come down like the Prius has.

    I imagine that even the Gen III will be viewed as a premium vehicle, but will still most likely have pretty decent takeup. We don't have government incentives for EVs or California style mandates for ZEVs. This has led to Australia falling WAY behind other countries for adoption of these types of cars (and the associated myths about these types of cars being pervasive in the public mind). My hope is that having a decent presence from Tesla will have a massive impact in smashing those myths. It's funny, because Australians in general are usually early adopters of new technology in consumer electronics, just not the technology that matters it seems. :smile:

    Despite my grumbling on this matter, Australia is a fantastic place to live (and visit)! I'm sure you'll enjoy it when you come!! :biggrin:
     
  18. meloccom

    meloccom Moderator Aus/NZ

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    Hi,
    If it helps, the 5% import duty no longer applies due to the Australia-USA free trade agreement since Jan 1, 2005.
    Quote: "Duties on more than 97 per cent of US non-agricultural tariff lines became duty free from day one of the Agreement, with all trade in goods free of duty by 2015"
    Link to DFAT page. DFAT
     
  19. moollar

    moollar Member

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    Thanks. That's good to know.
     
  20. erha

    erha Member

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    At least one Norwegian has got delivery confirmed for 14. of August
     

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