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uujjj2

Member
Aug 11, 2020
553
2,525
San Jose, CA
I personally doubt any of the Tesla folks I know would move to Texas, but I will be able to check with them soon, as our work begins in a few weeks time.
All these tech companies tell their employees, "Hey you can move to Austin/Portland/Denver/wherever and keep your Bay Area salary". It's a scam to trap their employees. If you're pulling a Bay Area salary in Austin, guess what, you're above the market rate and now you won't get raises and other companies won't hire you. And it's really only clock punchers and junior engineers that fall for the scam.
 
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ohmman

Plaid-ish Moderator
Feb 13, 2014
10,263
18,948
North Bay, CA
Won't lie to you, I don't feel as warm and fuzzy about Tesla as I did a couple years ago.
I'm in the same boat as you, but this move has nothing to do with it. My waning enthusiasm is more about losing the novelty of the brand (I've been an owner for 7.5 years and have had three cars and have two Powerwalls), watching service become much less capable/welcoming, and watching the terrible missteps that Tesla Energy seems to keep taking with installations.

I don't think any of that was terribly avoidable considering the growth trajectory, though they certainly could have done better in hindsight, but it's similar to that band you loved in college that used to draw 40 people to a show and then hit it big and sells out stadiums. You still like them, but somehow it's not the same.

For me personally, the move is insignificant in that whole context.
 

Skotty

2014 S P85 | 2020 3 P19"
Jun 27, 2013
2,528
1,963
Kansas City, MO
I'm in the same boat as you, but this move has nothing to do with it. My waning enthusiasm is more about losing the novelty of the brand (I've been an owner for 7.5 years and have had three cars and have two Powerwalls), watching service become much less capable/welcoming, and watching the terrible missteps that Tesla Energy seems to keep taking with installations.

I don't think any of that was terribly avoidable considering the growth trajectory, though they certainly could have done better in hindsight, but it's similar to that band you loved in college that used to draw 40 people to a show and then hit it big and sells out stadiums. You still like them, but somehow it's not the same.

For me personally, the move is insignificant in that whole context.
I was seriously considering Tesla for solar when they finally came to Missouri, but all the stories and reports I'm seeing about Tesla solar have changed my mind. It could be changed back, but Tesla has a lot of work to do before I would trust them with my residential solar.
 
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daniel

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2009
5,161
4,381
Kihei, HI
[The yoke is] real. Folks who have gotten used to it say it’s neither better, nor worse. Many others say it’s a dealbreaker for them, they will look elsewhere for their next car. I’m in the latter camp, as of now.

I live 4 miles from their Fremont factory. I’m going to take a test drive or three and make up my mind. Right now, I don’t think I’ll like the yoke.

I found pictures of it. As with the minimalist controls in my Model 3, I don't think that reducing the wheel is an improvement. I change my hand position on the wheel to avoid fatigue, and the yoke looks like it prevents this. Eliminating physical controls for other functions (in my 3) is not an improvement. As far back as my 2004 Prius, eliminating physical controls for the heater & A/C was not an improvement. Physical controls may give the interior a cluttered appearance, but they're simpler, more reliable, and don't require taking my attention away from the road.

A very cursory search did not find what the stalks are replaced with. How are F/R/P selected? How is autosteer activated? How are the turn signals activated? Or was I mistaken when I thought somebody said the stalks were eliminated?

it's a fact Musk made himself that he sold all his real property which included four Bell Air property's and a "special property" in the bay area. as far as a PR dept not just for cars sales but customer service after the "cars that sale themselves" are sold. every company that deals with the public especially in high levels as in the automotive industry has a customer service division with phone numbers. not everything in life is perfect things and problems arise when purchasing a $100k+. Tesla doesn't have a forum they did in the past. TMC is by no way affiliated to Tesla Motors. They make that well known on their home page.

To my mind, Public Relations and Customer Service are not the same thing. Tesla has certainly dropped the ball on customer service.

As far as Musk's personal accommodations, I don't see how that's any concern of ours. I'm sure he has a very nice place to live, or several. If they're not in his own name, that means nothing.

I was seriously considering Tesla for solar when they finally came to Missouri, but all the stories and reports I'm seeing about Tesla solar have changed my mind. It could be changed back, but Tesla has a lot of work to do before I would trust them with my residential solar.

I wanted to use Tesla for my solar when I got it three years ago. I'd been driving Teslas for 8 (?) years at that point and they were the best cars I'd ever had. But Tesla was not doing solar in my location, so I used a local installer. Based on all the stories I've read here, I'm really glad I did not use Tesla. My system includes a Tesla Gateway and two Tesla Powerwalls, but was installed by an independent solar contractor and the panels are not Tesla. I was and am very happy with the system and the installer.
 

TexasTezla

Member
Feb 28, 2020
337
262
Texas
I havent researched it, but real estate pricing in the bay area in california is extremely (extremely) expensive. It makes southern california look cheap by comparison, and southern california is not cheap.

A broken down 2 bed 1 bath hovel thats 30 years old in a bad part of town in the bay area is probably a million dollars.
Spot on...and when you say bad part of town...you aint kidding! Even the 'good parts' of SF have people doing drugs on the streets, tents everywhere, needles all over the sidewalk, people actually using the sidewalk as their toilet...you couldn't pay me enough to want to live in SF!
 
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Iain

Member
Feb 5, 2020
352
775
Austin
Spot on...and when you say bad part of town...you aint kidding! Even the 'good parts' of SF have people doing drugs on the streets, tents everywhere, needles all over the sidewalk, people actually using the sidewalk as their toilet...you couldn't pay me enough to want to live in SF!
I must say the picture you paint is not what is see when I go to the Bay Area. I live in Austin and if you want to go and look for what you say is in SF, let me tell you it’s easy to find here. All big cities have issues.

I love Austin but I also love what California has to offer. Ocean, mountains and good weather.
 
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TexasTezla

Member
Feb 28, 2020
337
262
Texas
I must say the picture you paint is not what is see when I go to the Bay Area. I live in Austin and if you want to go and look for what you say is in SF, let me tell you it’s easy to find here. All big cities have issues.

I love Austin but I also love what California has to offer. Ocean, mountains and good weather.
With respect, the Bay Area is not just SF, which I was talking about. Inner City SF specifically. Sure there are problems in most major cities but SF has a disproportionate amount in my view.
 
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tivoboy

Active Member
Jun 12, 2018
1,971
4,531
palo alto, ca
While this makes for a great headline, I don't really consider it the issue that the media or others are making of it. They are only moving their HEADQUARTERS which is where the company is considered domicilled. This is a tax move and somewhat regulatory move, but frankly the regulatory impact on the HQ is near meaningless. As Musk said, they will continue to expand their presence at the Fremont facility, as much as they can but I've been there and its packed like a texas tick on a dear.

The Palo Alto official headquarters at the old Stanford Research Park area was already pretty full, but I'd highly doubt they had more than 600-700 employees there and ALL the ones I know, are certainly not selling their Palo Alto, Menlo Park, Los Altos homes and moving their families to Texas. Some will for sure move, lower tax rate (ala no state income tax) lower HOUSING costs, decent schools in and around Austin, proximity to UT, etc. But lots of people who have been here for 10+ years really like it here and are not taking their kids out of school and moving just for this. And, I doubt Tesla is going to force them. The employees who have been there for a long time, have already taken the exercise on their stock and options and certainly are no longer in the position that Musk and some others are to need to realize 10's or 100's of millions and having no state capital gains tax in Texas will save those FEW people a lot of money. that could certainly be worth it for them. But, they would have to move (AND possibly sell their PRIMARY RESIDENCE here or change the mortgage) in order to be able to qualify. And, they can't honestly fly or drive back and forth more than 180 days a year and claim residence only in Texas. I consider this a VERY limited audience who is going to do this.

Tesla WILL grow their corporate and management headcount, engineering, R&D and other parts of their workforce in the newly built and growing Austin greenfield location. They will have to to comply. And it WILL be of benefit for hiring. As others have said, labor force is SLIGHTLY cheaper in Texas for some of these roles, housing, etc, but even though it is Austin it is still Texas (and this coming from a Texas boy born in Austin).

Nobody ever really thought that Tesla would say build ANOTHER factory in CA. Expanding Fremont as much as practicable was always IMHO the only real possibility.

So, in my opinion this makes a great headline and yes, CA will lose some tax revenue (although, they MAY be able to get some money back, as might the Federal govt't) but I don't see the headcount really changing or falling much and I don't know how the company books the revenue on the production side that is taxed, but it's not going to crater what CA is getting for the medium term.
 

daniel

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2009
5,161
4,381
Kihei, HI
Spot on...and when you say bad part of town...you aint kidding! Even the 'good parts' of SF have people doing drugs on the streets, tents everywhere, needles all over the sidewalk, people actually using the sidewalk as their toilet...you couldn't pay me enough to want to live in SF!

I have an elderly relative who lives in SF, who enjoys going for walks and browsing the shops and eating in the restaurants in her neighborhood. She has never mentioned anything like what you are describing. I don't doubt that such areas exist, but there certainly are "good" parts of town where that is not the situation.

what does headquarters consist of? is there a service division? how can I speak to someone that is above a regional Service manager? there are some serious issues that need to be addressed for Tesla's own good. Internal corruption ill leave it at that.

If you are trying to contact them to address an issue with your car or solar, or an order, how to reach them is a legitimate question. But if you merely want to speak to a higher-up in order to tell them that they have internal corruption or are otherwise running their company badly, I assure you they have no interest in hearing from you.

Like you, I think there are things they should do differently. And I've commented on them in other threads here on TMC. But I know perfectly well that Tesla doesn't give a rat's arse what I think about how they run their business. You buy a company's products, or you don't buy their products. But unless you own something like 5% or more of their outstanding shares, you're wasting your breath trying to tell them they're doing it wrong. Oh, and a stock price of 785 as of this writing shows that the market thinks they're running their business quite well. Which means that you and I are an insignificant minority.
 
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tivoboy

Active Member
Jun 12, 2018
1,971
4,531
palo alto, ca
I have an elderly relative who lives in SF, who enjoys going for walks and browsing the shops and eating in the restaurants in her neighborhood. She has never mentioned anything like what you are describing. I don't doubt that such areas exist, but there certainly are "good" parts of town where that is not the situation.
I couldn’t figure out the double quote mechanism on my phone, but yeah what was previously posted is just not accurate. I’m up on the city 4-5 time a month all around the city. Yes, down by the Tenderloin and Powell street station SOME of these things are evident and have gotten worse in the past 18 months. But no way, no how is this the whole city or much of the city or lots of the city or many areas of the city at all. LA, another story, but not here in San Francisco.

I will say though that the Terderloin has been this way for many many decades.. not the defecation that some see or reference today, and not the camping tents, but if you didn’t way to PAY for your THC high, all one needed to do was a 10 minute walk around Powell and you could easy get a freebie. ;-)
 

andy.connor.e

Member
Jul 20, 2020
112
96
Capital Region, NY
How? By giving Tesla millions in tax breaks, supporting EV’s more than any other state, and buying more Tesla’s than anywhere else? Why do cities and states bend over to please people with billions of dollars? Seems to me he should pay for the privilege of operating where ever he sets up shop.
I dont need to rehash what happened last year.
 
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_Redshift_

Member
Mar 4, 2021
50
53
Fremont, CA
Spot on...and when you say bad part of town...you aint kidding! Even the 'good parts' of SF have people doing drugs on the streets, tents everywhere, needles all over the sidewalk, people actually using the sidewalk as their toilet...you couldn't pay me enough to want to live in SF!
That’s SF. Rest of Bay Area isn’t that bad, homeless people wise.
We do need to stop accepting bus loads of homeless sent in by other states, though.
 

David29

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Aug 1, 2015
2,293
1,972
DEDHAM, MA
I found pictures of it. As with the minimalist controls in my Model 3, I don't think that reducing the wheel is an improvement. I change my hand position on the wheel to avoid fatigue, and the yoke looks like it prevents this. Eliminating physical controls for other functions (in my 3) is not an improvement. As far back as my 2004 Prius, eliminating physical controls for the heater & A/C was not an improvement. Physical controls may give the interior a cluttered appearance, but they're simpler, more reliable, and don't require taking my attention away from the road.

A very cursory search did not find what the stalks are replaced with. How are F/R/P selected? How is autosteer activated? How are the turn signals activated? Or was I mistaken when I thought somebody said the stalks were eliminated?



To my mind, Public Relations and Customer Service are not the same thing. Tesla has certainly dropped the ball on customer service.

As far as Musk's personal accommodations, I don't see how that's any concern of ours. I'm sure he has a very nice place to live, or several. If they're not in his own name, that means nothing.



I wanted to use Tesla for my solar when I got it three years ago. I'd been driving Teslas for 8 (?) years at that point and they were the best cars I'd ever had. But Tesla was not doing solar in my location, so I used a local installer. Based on all the stories I've read here, I'm really glad I did not use Tesla. My system includes a Tesla Gateway and two Tesla Powerwalls, but was installed by an independent solar contractor and the panels are not Tesla. I was and am very happy with the system and the installer.
Umm, are you really that unaware of this? Please pardon me for being surprised but I would think anyone on this forum would be well aware of the stalk removal and the associated control changes. There are countless YouTube videos, as well as Tesla's own instructional videos and the Model S user manual, all detailing how the new controls work. One of the best, most thorough reviews by an actual owner who has used the car for some time is this one:
There are many others, several of which demonstrate all the control changes. Enjoy!
 

_Redshift_

Member
Mar 4, 2021
50
53
Fremont, CA
what does headquarters consist of? is there a service division? how can I speak to someone that is above a regional Service manager? there are some serious issues that need to be addressed for Tesla's own good. Internal corruption ill leave it at that.
I work mainly with their R&D folks. I don’t know anyone in service.

I remember the times when I used to post an issue with my Model S on Tesla’s forums, and with 1-2 hours, Tesla service used to call me to see what was wrong, and inquire about making a service appointment for me! This happened 2-3 times.

Another time, we were remodeling our bathrooms and I had left 200 lbs of tiles in the trunk of my Model S and gave it for servicing. The service manager personally had unloaded all the tiles and then loaded it again when I went to pick up my car. No drama, nothing.

Those were the days! We knew that kind of personal attention wasn’t going to last. And boy, it did not.

My 2018 Model 3 had an annoying click click sound when I opened the drivers side door, when it was new. I took it in to Fremont service center, and the guy said I had to pay for the service to even look into it. I was livid, and told him the car is just 2 months old, and it is under warranty. He mentioned this was an ‘NVH’ issue, and all NVH issues are not covered under warranty! I asked to see his manager, and he said, ‘Sir, there is nothing I can do, we are still a startup, and we are trying to SURVIVE here!’. (This was when TSLA was around $750, IIRC)

My jaw dropped. I was so mad, I just drove back home, talked to some friends of mine on the Tesla forums, to get hold of someone at service. However, I just got lazy and did not follow up. Finally the issue was fixed earlier this year, by Tesla mobile service. They replaced the door hinges under warranty, and the service was very pleasant.

I do wonder if their service is again becoming better. We shall see. My S is due for the eMMC recall service this coming Thursday.
 
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TexasTezla

Member
Feb 28, 2020
337
262
Texas
I couldn’t figure out the double quote mechanism on my phone, but yeah what was previously posted is just not accurate. I’m up on the city 4-5 time a month all around the city. Yes, down by the Tenderloin and Powell street station SOME of these things are evident and have gotten worse in the past 18 months. But no way, no how is this the whole city or much of the city or lots of the city or many areas of the city at all. LA, another story, but not here in San Francisco.

I will say though that the Terderloin has been this way for many many decades.. not the defecation that some see or reference today, and not the camping tents, but if you didn’t way to PAY for your THC high, all one needed to do was a 10 minute walk around Powell and you could easy get a freebie. ;-)
No camping tends in the Tenderloin? when was the last time you were there??? It's full of tents! Anyway, I'm happy you see SF in a different light but there is NO way I could ever live there or near it. I am sure Musk decided to move to Austin primarily due to his spat with CA and the ridiculous cost of real estate...also perhaps state income tax...although I doubt he pays any of that right now anyway. The uber rich rarely do. California is going to lose a lot more tech companies in the coming years...
 

tivoboy

Active Member
Jun 12, 2018
1,971
4,531
palo alto, ca
No camping tends in the Tenderloin? when was the last time you were there??? It's full of tents! Anyway, I'm happy you see SF in a different light but there is NO way I could ever live there or near it. I am sure Musk decided to move to Austin primarily due to his spat with CA and the ridiculous cost of real estate...also perhaps state income tax...although I doubt he pays any of that right now anyway. The uber rich rarely do. California is going to lose a lot more tech companies in the coming years...
What I meant in that sentence was the Tenderloin has had these issues for decades, but decades AGO there were not the camping tents and the defecation that we have TODAY. I’ll try and correct it to make that more clear.
 
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daniel

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2009
5,161
4,381
Kihei, HI
That’s SF. Rest of Bay Area isn’t that bad, homeless people wise.
We do need to stop accepting bus loads of homeless sent in by other states, though.

States cannot deny entrance to citizens. American citizens have the right to move freely throughout the country. Homelessness is a serious issue, and having worked in a homeless shelter I can say that being homeless is not a character defect. It is a condition caused by social, economic, and political forces, a discussion of which would be off topic here.

Umm, are you really that unaware of this? Please pardon me for being surprised but I would think anyone on this forum would be well aware of the stalk removal and the associated control changes. There are countless YouTube videos, as well as Tesla's own instructional videos and the Model S user manual, all detailing how the new controls work. One of the best, most thorough reviews by an actual owner who has used the car for some time is this one:
There are many others, several of which demonstrate all the control changes. Enjoy!

Yes. Sorry. I was unaware of it. I don't spend a lot of time here. Maybe half an hour a day (?). And I've mostly been following the autonomy discussions rather than the model-specific details. I'm putting the above video on my YouTube watch-later queue. Thanks for the reference.
 

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