Tesla needs a stripped down economy version of the X ASAP

[ecarfan]

No. The model Y is the new roadster of pure Tesla pedigree.

Based on one of Elon's tweets yesterday, the Model Y will be the SUV/CUV version of the Model 3.

 

[ecarfan]

I do not expect the X to ever be the type of vehicle you are describing. But the Model Y (SUV/CUV based on Model 3 platform) will likely be something like that.

I'd prefer an X that

• lacks the "work of art" second-row seats but rather just plain utilitarian seats that FOLD FLAT

• lacks Falcon Wing doors, just plain utilitarian normal doors thank you

• lacks the silly "driver's door valet" or whatever it's called, that opens as you approach, and closes once you're inside

• lacks auto-pilot functionality, but instead just has sensors galore to help driver stay aware of 360-degree situation

• lacks the crazy long glass windshield, instead has normal windshield of Model S

• offers Model S-style sunroof option

• offers a sturdy, robust roof rack solution.

 

[James Anders]

What Tesla needs to do now is execute. Build and deliver those cars for which they have deposits. Most people will follow thru with their orders. Tesla needs to continue to build out the Supercharger network and squash all these annoying quality issues. Then they need to show a kickass beautiful Model 3 in March. This is what they must do.

 

[Troy]

In that tweet when Elon says "something like a 70, 12 months from now" I think that means when the entry model is launched, there will be an upgrade to batteries. My guess is 70/90kWh will be replaced with 75/95kWh. That's why he says "something like a 70". He has now deleted that tweet. After the 90 was announced, in THIS conference call (at 17:49) Elon said battery upgrades will be 5 to 10% every 1 to 2 years.

 

[peteyswift]

You have to be careful. That production backlog includes a huge number of people that will probably won't get it until a lower cost version is available. Just because somebody put down a $5000 deposit doesn't mean they want a $120K version. I expect when they open up configuration for general production they will announce all trims, just like with the S. However, they will actually build the higher end ones first.

This is a good point. Kind of off topic/on topic but I could see how the reservation refund rate of the Model X could be higher than expected. There are many polarizing things on the Model X, from price to nose to Falcon Wings to no fold flats, to windshield - which will drive reservation holders more to keep or more to cancel. Something to watch.

 

[bmanke]

Laughing out loud at this one!! So true - this is Tesla not Toyota. LOL

Sounds like you are qualified for some job openings at GM.

 

[ankitmishra]

I disagree.

Tesla needs high profits per vehicle, and to make as much money as possible while production is ramping. And just as we've seen buyers for whom Model S is by far the most expensive car they've ever purchased, I predict we'll see buyers for whom Model X is the most expensive SUV they've ever purchased. The utility of a big SUV without the guilt or cost of running under 15 MPG.

We all want to be able to afford Teslas, but just as Porsche is the most profitable part of VW (and probably more so moving forward), moving mainstream right now is probably not in the best interests of Tesla long term.

Well said.

 

[loganthefirst]

You have to be careful. That production backlog includes a huge number of people that will probably won't get it until a lower cost version is available. Just because somebody put down a $5000 deposit doesn't mean they want a $120K version. I expect when they open up configuration for general production they will announce all trims, just like with the S. However, they will actually build the higher end ones first.

YES, this exactly! My wife and I's household income is only $110k. We are making/going to make more concessions to support clean energy and want an SUV/CUV for the space of our future family. We aren't going to be able to afford a $132,000 Model X. As reservation holder 11,501, I hope by the time they get to my number they announce a base model as that is the one we'll hopefully be able to afford. One can hope...

 

[eloder]

I'd prefer an X that

• lacks the "work of art" second-row seats but rather just plain utilitarian seats that FOLD FLAT

• lacks Falcon Wing doors, just plain utilitarian normal doors thank you

• lacks the silly "driver's door valet" or whatever it's called, that opens as you approach, and closes once you're inside

• lacks auto-pilot functionality, but instead just has sensors galore to help driver stay aware of 360-degree situation

• lacks the crazy long glass windshield, instead has normal windshield of Model S

• offers Model S-style sunroof option

• offers a sturdy, robust roof rack solution

That'd do it for me. A real, capable SUV that's more SUV than sport limo for Liam-Neeson-in-Taken types driving celebs around Beverly Hills.

Those are already made, they're called every other non-Tesla SUV out there

I agree that the smartest thing for Tesla to do right now, is to focus on high margins until demand drops. Businesses can't suddenly snap their fingers and ramp up production to impossible levels--if they do that for a temporary super-high-demand situation like right now, they'll have a lot of wasted and idling capital later down the line.

They're probably well aware that many reservation holders were expecting a 70D or something along those lines. They're perfectly fine with those people deferring and/or cancelling, and when demand is running low again they'll unveil the basic utilitarian versions (the 70D or something similar is already confirmed <12 months away, non-adventurous and less comfortable folding seats are probably not far behind either.

 

[TexasEV]

YES, this exactly! My wife and I's household income is only $110k. We are making/going to make more concessions to support clean energy and want an SUV/CUV for the space of our future family. We aren't going to be able to afford a $132,000 Model X. As reservation holder 11,501, I hope by the time they get to my number they announce a base model as that is the one we'll hopefully be able to afford. One can hope...

That price is for a Signature version, which you didn't reserve (it was a $40,000 deposit) so you couldn't pay that much if you wanted to. You have a reservation for a regular model X. Elon said it will be about $5000 more than an equivalent Model S. So price out a 90D (not P90D), add $5000, and that's approx. what your Model X will cost. It will be under $100,000.

 

[David99]

I totally agree, but I believe Tesla is producing high priced vehicles only (right now) because they are still constrained in production. Both in pure production and in terms of batteries. If you can only make 20k units a year you might as well maximize your profits by setting the price very high. The demand is there.

But I noticed some make the mistake to confuse high profits with being most successful. Having a product with a high profit is good, but the market for it is limited. For example Porsche has very high profits, but the number of people that can afford one is limited so your overall success is limited by that. The profit on a Toyota Corolla might be lower per car but if you can sell 50 times as many cars, you are overall making more money.

 

[MrBoylan]

That price is for a Signature version, which you didn't reserve (it was a $40,000 deposit) so you couldn't pay that much if you wanted to. You have a reservation for a regular model X. Elon said it will be about $5000 more than an equivalent Model S. So price out a 90D (not P90D), add $5000, and that's approx. what your Model X will cost. It will be under $100,000.

You could pay that much, if you wanted to. You could configure a Model S just like a Signature Model S, except for the exclusive Signature Red paint. The same should be true for the Model X. Load the X up with all the options (including performance and ludicrous speed upgrade, 22" wheels, etc.), I bet it will still come in at over $140K.

I used some of the prices from the Model S as guidelines ($88K base for Model S 90D, upgraded audio, winter weather package, etc.) with a 90D Model X and my configuration came in at over $100K with the $5K premium over the S. If Elon's words are literally true then the base price for a Model X 90D should be $93K.

 

[Mark Z]

Foldable Artistic Seats

I was going to start an entire new thread on the subject, but this thread will allow me to hopefully suggest something that will make EVERYONE happy.

Elon and the designers love the Model X "work of art" seats as many of us who see the Tesla Motors electric vehicles as something special. A vehicle that you can use when unloading guests at the Academy Awards or finest hotels and restaurants.

This solution came to mind after viewing the existing Model X rear seat headrests that fold over in addition to the seat back folding down.

So here is THE answer for future seats, (I hope Elon is going to like this, and I gladly give Tesla Motors the rights to use the idea at no cost.)

Make the artistic high gloss black plastic of all three seats in the second row, into a artistic cover that is removable.

Have a utility surface of carpet or other flooring material on the seat back that is hidden while the artistic cover is in place.

When the cover is ON, the headrest cannot fold over and seat back cannot fold down.

When the cover is OFF, both the headrest can fold over and the seat back can fold down.

Put a lever underneath the bottom of the seat back that handles all the locking and mounting actions. If the artistic high gloss black plastic covers are not mounted with seat occupants, the lever is used to secure both the headrest and seat back without the cover in place. (This allows passenger use without the cover.)

Any of the seats could be individually folded, your choice.

Everyone gets two interiors in one, the stylistic one for your best entertainment experiences and the utility you need that matches all other SUVs.

The other major benefit is how the artistic high gloss black plastic covers would be saved from scratches by some users. Another option is an easy change of cover color. If you love white or tan high gloss plastic, then why not have that choice? In that case, all 5 seats could have removable covers. Why not allow the passenger seat to fold down for even greater utility.

Please, forum readers, DON'T be negative about where to store the covers. If you have to remove the covers at Home Depot or Lowe's, just place them on top of all the stuff you just bought. Ideally they should be able to stack on the floor of Model X. For those that want utility before going to the store, then leave them at home.

I cannot think of a better solution than to enjoy both the artistic design and the utility many want and need.

 

[Jason S]

On topic: they'll do the same as with the S in prioritizing the higher profit builds, and based on the referenced material I think we can be assured the lower priced X will be at least a year out.

AND I think Mark Z's description could work nicely for hauling around stuff.

Not according to Elon Musk:

@AwesomelyOZ there will be a Model 3 and a Model Y. One of the two will.

In reference to having falcon wings. Unless you think they are going to saddle a roadster with that weight?

It is a side discussion about the 3 or Y having a falcon wing door, but I don't see how a falcon wing door couldn't be part of a roadster build. To satisfy the '3 commas' guy. :smile: So why not picture a Y roadster with falcon wing doors? (smaller, obviously) ... the majority of weight is still the batteries, imho.

 

[eloder]

I totally agree, but I believe Tesla is producing high priced vehicles only (right now) because they are still constrained in production. Both in pure production and in terms of batteries. If you can only make 20k units a year you might as well maximize your profits by setting the price very high. The demand is there.

But I noticed some make the mistake to confuse high profits with being most successful. Having a product with a high profit is good, but the market for it is limited. For example Porsche has very high profits, but the number of people that can afford one is limited so your overall success is limited by that. The profit on a Toyota Corolla might be lower per car but if you can sell 50 times as many cars, you are overall making more money.

It is, but high profits tend to be most successful when production constrained such as right now Apple does the same thing with launches, where the 128gb model is very rarely / never on backorder but the cheaper 16gb model is.

There's not much incentive for Tesla to create new S/X lines now, and their resources are likely much better spent optimizing the current production rates while gearing up for more massive M3 production. (I imagine they may get an S/X line up and running in Europe between now and M3 launch, though.

 

[ZachShahan]

In that tweet when Elon says "something like a 70, 12 months from now" I think that means when the entry model is launched, there will be an upgrade to batteries. My guess is 70/90kWh will be replaced with 75/95kWh. That's why he says "something like a 70". He has now deleted that tweet. After the 90 was announced, in THIS conference call (at 17:49) Elon said battery upgrades will be 5 to 10% every 1 to 2 years.

Completely agree.

And not sure if I'm surprised he deleted the tweet or surprised he tweeted it. I know he's done this before, but would think he'd stop doing that. Seems like he went on a tweet rampage just before watching a movie at the cinema. Elon, Elon.

Anyhow, super useful info, so I'm happy he put it out there.

 

[CarlK]

But I noticed some make the mistake to confuse high profits with being most successful. Having a product with a high profit is good, but the market for it is limited. For example Porsche has very high profits, but the number of people that can afford one is limited so your overall success is limited by that. The profit on a Toyota Corolla might be lower per car but if you can sell 50 times as many cars, you are overall making more money.

Believe me any company that could sell cars at 911 margin would do so without hesitation. Toyota sell Corolla cheap only because people won't buy it if it's charged BMW 1 series price, even if Toyota can make the car as good. Toyota did try to break into the high end market with the Lexus brand but even that still can not establish the true high end car brand image that match the German's after decades of trying. Lexus still have to sell equavalent cars cheaper to get the market share. It's amazing that Tesla actually achieved the true high end car status, that it does not have to compete with Porsche or Mercedes by price, in a few short years. I think they are smart enough that they will not throw that away easily.

 

[brkaus]

Tesla is still battery constrained.

With the same amount of batteries you can build 7 X90s or 9 X70s. Depending on pricing that might just mean a better margin for Tesla.

It might or might not. It would depend on the mark-up of all the extras. The person not wanting to spend extra in the battery may also not want to spend in things like premium interior, fancy rims, etc.

There is probably also a concern about the range of a 70. It would likely be less than the s60.

 

[Blastphemy]

• lacks the "work of art" second-row seats but rather just plain utilitarian seats that FOLD FLAT
• lacks Falcon Wing doors, just plain utilitarian normal doors thank you
• lacks the silly "driver's door valet" or whatever it's called, that opens as you approach, and closes once you're inside
• lacks auto-pilot functionality, but instead just has sensors galore to help driver stay aware of 360-degree situation
• lacks the crazy long glass windshield, instead has normal windshield of Model S
• offers Model S-style sunroof option
• offers a sturdy, robust roof rack solution

Those are already made, they're called every other non-Tesla SUV out there

Except that those non-Tesla SUVs aren't 100% electric with 250+ miles of EV range. I totally get tinm's wants. I'd much rather have an Infiniti QX60 as-is except for it being all-electric with robust EV range. But since the Model X is the only game in town at this point, I have no choice. (And it isn't up to me since my wife will be driving the Model X, so c'est la vie.)

 

[Uncle Paul]

I put down my deposit when there was some clarity for me, as to my estimated costs for the Model X. I wanted to go all electric and upgrade from my Grand Cherokee. Was thinking in the $85,000-$90,000 range due to Elon's comment that the X was estimated to be $5,000 more than the S.

If it turns out, when my number is called, that the only option is a $120,000 battlewagon, most likely I'll politely request a refund of my deposit and buy another Jeep. Put off my electric dream until the prices come down a bit for me.

The investment community feels that these new Model X's will face a much smaller market at such a high selling price. The backlog of potential buyers may evaporate if there is not a more reasonably priced option.:scared::scared: