Tesla needs to move to CCS in North America

[SeminoleFSU]

Agree, it shouldn't be that hard. I'm not aware that (electrically) The Tesla Type 2 is any different to the Tesla US plug from a DC point of view, and CCS1 and CCS2 are based on the same basic format, so if they can make this CCS2 to Tesla-EU adaptor, there's no reason they can't make a CCS1 to Tesla-US adaptor. It's just the shape/mouldings.

The only logical reason I can think of is perceived lack of demand. There are large portions of Europe and Australia which are outside supercharger coverage. North America has some small areas but for the most part it's ubiquitous.

I just finished planning a trip to Murphy, Nc where we could avoid supercharging if Tesla made a CCS adapter. I could buy a Chademo adapter and have a similar outcome but it seems like that standard might slowly go away so CCS is needed. It's nice to have an alternative especially at some of the places where the only choice is a very busy super charger or the SpC is way out of the way

 

[Saghost]

I just finished planning a trip to Murphy, Nc where we could avoid supercharging if Tesla made a CCS adapter. I could buy a Chademo adapter and have a similar outcome but it seems like that standard might slowly go away so CCS is needed. It's nice to have an alternative especially at some of the places where the only choice is a very busy super charger or the SpC is way out of the way

I just planned a trip where I could have avoided using the fastest charging, most prevalent, most reliable, and least expensive charging network available if only Tesla had been willing to sell me an adapter that would allow me to spend hundreds of dollars on the adapter so I can charge slower from smaller sites that will charge me more money per kWh, assuming they are working when I arrive, which I won't know until I get there.

What am I missing here?
Is there some reason you want to not use Tesla's network?
I understand the arguments about areas where there aren't Superchargers, but not this post.

 

[SeminoleFSU]

I just planned a trip where I could have avoided using the fastest charging, most prevalent, most reliable, and least expensive charging network available if only Tesla had been willing to sell me an adapter that would allow me to spend hundreds of dollars on the adapter so I can charge slower from smaller sites that will charge me more money per kWh, assuming they are working when I arrive, which I won't know until I get there.

What am I missing here?
Is there some reason you want to not use Tesla's network?
I understand the arguments about areas where there aren't Superchargers, but not this post.

Apparently you haven't been to the nearly always full Atlantic station supercharger in Atlanta, Ga. I try and avoid it like the plague... Especially once holiday shopping starts getting cray cray. With a CSS adapter I could charge in Elijay at a DC charger over lunch and not have to stop at all except for lunch, which I'm going to do anyway. There are alternative super chargers I could hit but would require a longer route. The north Ga/eastern TN/southwestern NC area is pretty barren as far as supercharging goes. Beyond all that more choices = better

 

[MP3Mike]

Apparently you haven't been to the nearly always full Atlantic station supercharger in Atlanta, Ga. I try and avoid it like the plague... Especially once holiday shopping starts getting cray cray. With a CSS adapter I could charge in Elijay at a DC charger over lunch and not have to stop at all except for lunch, which I'm going to do anyway.

But it is possible if an adapter were available that the CCS sites could be full all the time too...

 

[Akikiki]

The other factor in changing to the CCS "standard" is that Tesla does not like doing things according to someone else's agenda. The CCS is probably controlled by a consortium of manufacturers. Why take the chance that they will "control" the standard into uselessness? VW wants to slow down Tesla? Convince the committee that the charge handle is too light and might blow away in a high wind. Change the requirement to have it weigh 75 pounds. Silly example, I know, but the committee has its own agendas and at the very least can slow down development.

There's always a back story. Years ago before the S, when they were building the Roadster, Tesla reps got all the manufacturers together for a discussion about charging standards. Nissan, MB, BMW, even Toyota and those others that were completely disinterested in EVs or anything to do with them. All of them were disinterested in establishing a standard. Not Nissan, BMW, MB, Ford/GM. It wasn't that they could not agree on a standard. They didn't want anything to do with EVs. This was before the i3, the RAV4 EV, they didn't care. So, Elon said, they had their chance, we will do what we will do.

So, if you are going to get mad about there not being a world wide standard, don't blame Tesla, blame those others. Those of us that have been around here a long time, remember this. Who else remembers?

 

[cwerdna]

But it is possible if an adapter were available that the CCS sites could be full all the time too...

True. In my part of the the Bay Area, every time I've been at or passed by an Electrify America site (which usually has 3 to 5 CCS plugs + 1 CHAdeMO), either I'm the only user or there is nobody there.

In contrast, one of them is in the same strip mall (but the other side of it) as a bank of Tesla urban-style Superchargers and usually has several Teslas charging. That site plus another EA site are within ~2 miles of another bank of Tesla urban-style Superchargers which also are usually in use.

I've used EVgo dual-standard (CCS and CHAdeMO) stations that are part of Home Page - DRIVEtheARC (limited part of Nor Cal only) and usually, they're not that busy but seem more well utilized than EA... possibly because some of those users actually know about free or discounted juice from DrivetheARC. Some other EVgo sites that aren't aren't on DTA more utilized likely due to Nissan NCTC and now their $250 EVgo credit that come w/new Leafs.

 

[fwgmills]

There's always a back story. Years ago before the S, when they were building the Roadster, Tesla reps got all the manufacturers together for a discussion about charging standards. Nissan, MB, BMW, even Toyota and those others that were completely disinterested in EVs or anything to do with them. All of them were disinterested in establishing a standard. Not Nissan, BMW, MB, Ford/GM. It wasn't that they could not agree on a standard. They didn't want anything to do with EVs. This was before the i3, the RAV4 EV, they didn't care. So, Elon said, they had their chance, we will do what we will do.

So, if you are going to get mad about there not being a world wide standard, don't blame Tesla, blame those others. Those of us that have been around here a long time, remember this. Who else remembers?

Could be worse...we could all be using those goofy-ass inductive paddle chargers they put on the EV1 and the RAV4 EV.

 

[Babaron]

There's always a back story. Years ago before the S, when they were building the Roadster, Tesla reps got all the manufacturers together for a discussion about charging standards. Nissan, MB, BMW, even Toyota and those others that were completely disinterested in EVs or anything to do with them. All of them were disinterested in establishing a standard. Not Nissan, BMW, MB, Ford/GM. It wasn't that they could not agree on a standard. They didn't want anything to do with EVs. This was before the i3, the RAV4 EV, they didn't care. So, Elon said, they had their chance, we will do what we will do.

So, if you are going to get mad about there not being a world wide standard, don't blame Tesla, blame those others. Those of us that have been around here a long time, remember this. Who else remembers?

I remember...and I agree with the others who say it’s not Tesla’s fault that the others were not interested in thinking proactively as Elon was. Let the others now sit with Tesla and work with Tesla to come up with a sensible solution.

 

[Gasaraki]

I agree that one standard plug makes sense.

Sounds good on paper but then now you'll have people using Tesla superchargers. How will Tesla charge them?

Will the conversion of all the cars already sold be free? How much will it cost to convert all the Superchargers cords to CCS? How long will conversions take? Do we just stop building Superchargers with the old plug even though everyone is still on the old plug?

 

[e of pi]

Sounds good on paper but then now you'll have people using Tesla superchargers. How will Tesla charge them?

The latest CCS standard has signal protocols for a car to identify itself to a charger, much like Tesla does, so that would be one option. The alternative would be something like EA's app, where the non-Tesla user would use an app to request a station be activated after they plug in, and that app initiation ties their payment method to the charging session for billing. As I understand it, in some places in the US the Supercharger $/kWh number is higher than the EA $/kWh, so you'd think Tesla would love to get more people paying their rates to help pay the costs of the network's construction.

Smart EQ says first to add “Plug and Charge” support

Will the conversion of all the cars already sold be free? How much will it cost to convert all the Superchargers cords to CCS? How long will conversions take? Do we just stop building Superchargers with the old plug even though everyone is still on the old plug?

They've done this process already in Europe, so I'd imagine the answers would be very similar--make an adaptor available with conversion being a few hundred dollars for existing vehicles. They switch over all new production and start converting Superchargers as they perform regular maintenance.

Tesla reduces CCS upgrade prices in Europe - electrive.com

 

[Snow Drift]

Sounds good on paper but then now you'll have people using Tesla superchargers. How will Tesla charge them?

Will the conversion of all the cars already sold be free? How much will it cost to convert all the Superchargers cords to CCS? How long will conversions take? Do we just stop building Superchargers with the old plug even though everyone is still on the old plug?

As said above, Tesla can limit access to it's network via software, subscription etc.

You don't have to convert anything. Tesla could stay proprietary and just offer adapters for Tesla-CCS.

This would give us access to Tesla AND EA, Chargepoint, EVgo and all of the other future public DC stations being launched.

 

[Saghost]

As said above, Tesla can limit access to it's network via software, subscription etc.

You don't have to convert anything. Tesla could stay proprietary and just offer adapters for Tesla-CCS.

This would give us access to Tesla AND EA, Chargepoint, EVgo and all of the other future public DC stations being launched.

I don’t think you’ll find anyone here who is opposed to Tesla offering an adapter to allow Tesla cars to charge on CCS at their cost or a little above.

If you look at the top of this thread, what the OP is suggesting is something else entirely - abandoning the current protocol entirely and converting all the cars and locations to CCS.

That’s much more controversial, and I believe quite unreasonable.

 

[Lloyd]

IMHO, CCS is the way forward for Tesla.

Now that Electrify America (EA) is rolling out CCS based chargers, this let's Tesla expand it's "Tesla Supercharging network" without the cost of new installations or buy building few dedicated Superchargers. Instead they can strike a deal to piggy back on the Electrify American network, while still maintaining their dedicated Superchargers features such as free charging for qualified owners.

To do this Tesla needs switch to manufacturing cars with CCS, as they are with the cars going to Europe.

Tesla is already install a dual CCS/Supercharger retrofit kit to their existing superchargers in Europe. So with both "regular" supercharger and EA CCS this would would let NA Tesla owners with CCS ports continue to use the existing Supercharger locations and the new "EA Superchargers". Also it would it incentives North American buyers to upgrade to new model Teslas that supported CCS rather then hold onto their older vehicles.

What do people think?

Teslas charging is the more appropriate and elegant solution. CCS should adopt Tesla's format!

 

[Snow Drift]

I don’t think you’ll find anyone here who is opposed to Tesla offering an adapter to allow Tesla cars to charge on CCS at their cost or a little above.

If you look at the top of this thread, what the OP is suggesting is something else entirely - abandoning the current protocol entirely and converting all the cars and locations to CCS.

That’s much more controversial, and I believe quite unreasonable.

Yes, I am fine with both. I was responding to someone who wasn't sure how we would stop other OEM from using Tesla's network and I offered him a way to prevent retrofitting Teslas to CCS.

 

[gavine]

There's always a back story. Years ago before the S, when they were building the Roadster, Tesla reps got all the manufacturers together for a discussion about charging standards. Nissan, MB, BMW, even Toyota and those others that were completely disinterested in EVs or anything to do with them. All of them were disinterested in establishing a standard. Not Nissan, BMW, MB, Ford/GM. It wasn't that they could not agree on a standard. They didn't want anything to do with EVs. This was before the i3, the RAV4 EV, they didn't care. So, Elon said, they had their chance, we will do what we will do.

So, if you are going to get mad about there not being a world wide standard, don't blame Tesla, blame those others. Those of us that have been around here a long time, remember this. Who else remembers?

From my recollection of the situation, it came down to the consortium taking too long and Tesla needed to get moving on a solution so they developed their own standard. Otherwise, Tesla probably would have adopted the standard.

 

[CyberGus]

I guess USB is out of the question?

 

[Snow Drift]

I guess USB is out of the question?

Lightning or Thunderbolt...

 

[Akikiki]

I guess USB is out of the question?

Waiting on USB 4.20 Elon is waiting on it.

 

[Chuq]

Sounds good on paper but then now you'll have people using Tesla superchargers. How will Tesla charge them?

Will the conversion of all the cars already sold be free? How much will it cost to convert all the Superchargers cords to CCS? How long will conversions take? Do we just stop building Superchargers with the old plug even though everyone is still on the old plug?

Tesla has gone through this exact process in Europe, Australia and New Zealand so there's no insurmountable problem that they haven't already solved. The only issue they might run into is the fact that in those other countries, they changed to CCS *before* the Model 3 came out. The majority of Tesla vehicles in each of those regions is already the new standard. Whereas if Tesla was going to do it in North America, they really should have done it for the Model 3 release. The longer they leave it, the harder it is to do.

 

[MP3Mike]

Tesla has gone through this exact process in Europe, Australia and New Zealand so there's no insurmountable problem that they haven't already solved.

No it isn't at all the same thing. In Europe they were already using the Type 2 connector, so they didn't have to do anything to continue using all of the existing Destination chargers, UMCs, and Wall Connectors. And even at that the current Model S&Xs still require an adapter for CCS which limits them to charging at ~142kW at CCS and V3 Supercharger sites, while current NA S&X vehicles can charge at up to 250kW at V3 Supercharger sites.

In NA they would be changing to a totally new connector that would require replacement or an adapter for every existing Tesla charging solution. (Superchargers, Destination chargers, UMCs, and Wall Connectors.)