Tesla Neurio Device Accuracy

[jgleigh]

My CT4 is reversed. I think the real issue is that I have to have two Site CT locations due to how my system is setup. The bus bars in my main panel are too big to put CTs around and monitor all the loads, so I have CTs on my non-backup panel and also using the built-in CTs in the Gateway.

The Gateway clearly knows what is going on because power flows correctly between my solar, powerwalls, and loads, but it seems like the app assumes there is only one Site monitor and doesn't know how to display that information correctly. What's even weirder is the graphs are correct so the data coming from the Gateway to the app is 'tagged' correctly.

 

[jgleigh]

Here's the strange behavior I see. From/To Grid should both be zero.

 

[jgleigh]

Today’s readings are even stranger. I was using a lot of solar to charge the car on the non-backup panel. My grid usage was near zero.

 

[MCNE]

You might need to get creative reversing more than one CT. Wish Incould help more but mine is very simple in comparison.

 

[jgleigh]

I've been digging into the raw data from the Gateway API and I think I know what's going on. Basically the app is terrible and isn't nearly as smart as the Gateway.

The app incorrectly assumes that there is only one Site monitor and therefore doesn't totally understand when the two Site monitors are aggregated together. The app shows ANY positive Site measurements as From Grid and ANY negative Site measurements as To Grid, even though Solar/Powerwall outputs going to the non-backup Site monitor aren't really going to the grid. It usually gets the Net Usage correct, but I still need to research why it sometimes botches this calculation too.

The second major app issue is that the Home Usage pulls in the same false From Grid data and screws up the Energy Sources calculation. Of course, the graph is correct so somewhere they know the power is really coming from Powerwalls, but it reports it incorrectly as From Grid in the statistics.

Basically, the app is pretty worthless (for Home and Grid) outside of power flow...especially if you have two Site monitors.

 

[rekoh]

Anyone want to take a guess as why my Powerwall 2 is adding my Solar to home usage and shunting it to home? … Powerwall never charges off Solar as the home demand grows with the Solar despite the actual demand being nil.

 

[rekoh]

Another illustration

 

[MCNE]

View attachment 790530
Anyone want to take a guess as why my Powerwall 2 is adding my Solar to home usage and shunting it to home? … Powerwall never charges off Solar as the home demand grows with the Solar despite the actual demand being nil.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure how things are configured with a Powerwall or if a Neurio device is even utilize in the fuse box. What's the configuration like? with this thread all things lead to the CT's needing to be moved and or reconfigured.

 

[jgleigh]

I've decided it's not worth getting the app fixed since using it for historical data is already painful. I've switched to using the Powerwall Dashboard and it gives you a ton more data and my grid usage now matches my utility numbers. Here's the link for anyone that's interested in setting it up.

GitHub - jasonacox/Powerwall-Dashboard: Grafana Monitoring Dashboard for Tesla Solar and Powerwall Systems

Grafana Monitoring Dashboard for Tesla Solar and Powerwall Systems - jasonacox/Powerwall-Dashboard

github.com

 

[KHYE]

I've decided it's not worth getting the app fixed since using it for historical data is already painful. I've switched to using the Powerwall Dashboard and it gives you a ton more data and my grid usage now matches my utility numbers. Here's the link for anyone that's interested in setting it up.

GitHub - jasonacox/Powerwall-Dashboard: Grafana Monitoring Dashboard for Tesla Solar and Powerwall Systems

Grafana Monitoring Dashboard for Tesla Solar and Powerwall Systems - jasonacox/Powerwall-Dashboard

github.com

Can you please tell me how to set up the host? Can I use old pc and install linux on it?

Thanks.

 

[jgleigh]

I would think so. The script walks you through almost all the setup. All you really need to install before is docker and docker-compose.

 

[shred86]

So, has anyone gotten anywhere with Tesla support on this issue? I have similar issues but a slightly different setup (two electrical panels) that I believe has a separate installation issue which I talked about in this thread. However, I’m still not sure how moving CT2 to CT4 and physically flipping the orientation of the CT clamp fixes this issue. Unless of course the actual CT port doesn’t correspond to the phase that’s displayed on the inverter page. Assuming these Neurio W2 (Tesla specific) devices are some what similar to the Generac PWRview, the installation instructions show you can specify which CT ports correspond to which phase. Perhaps this is configured incorrectly in the Tesla firmware of the Neurio W2? You would think Tesla support would be able to see that though... I‘ve had a ticket in with Tesla for over a month now with their “Tier 2“ support that’s been “escalated” after I inquired about it but still haven’t heard anything.

 

[jgleigh]

I keep meaning to bug them, but haven't got around to it. It's not a CT channel issue. I did the CT2 to CT4 swap and the same data errors are present. I eventually put it back the way it was originally. There's clearly something in the backend/app that is misinterpreting the data. The graphs will be correct, but the statistics and raw values under the graphs are wrong and get corrupted by the incorrect data from the Grid tab. The data pull from the API into Powerwall-Dashboard (and utility data) show that everything is working as designed, it's just being displayed incorrectly in the app on the historical screens. The live data flow is always correct for me.

Tesla Neurio Device Accuracy

My CT4 is reversed. I think the real issue is that I have to have two Site CT locations due to how my system is setup. The bus bars in my main panel are too big to put CTs around and monitor all the loads, so I have CTs on my non-backup panel and also using the built-in CTs in the Gateway. The...

teslamotorsclub.com

My previous post has a good explanation of what I think is happening in the app. I have a similar setup with a 400A panel split into two 200A feeds. I have a Neurio on one 200A feed and then the Gateway monitoring the second 200A feed.

 

[MCNE]

So, has anyone gotten anywhere with Tesla support on this issue? I have similar issues but a slightly different setup (two electrical panels) that I believe has a separate installation issue which I talked about in this thread. However, I’m still not sure how moving CT2 to CT4 and physically flipping the orientation of the CT clamp fixes this issue. Unless of course the actual CT port doesn’t correspond to the phase that’s displayed on the inverter page. Assuming these Neurio W2 (Tesla specific) devices are some what similar to the Generac PWRview, the installation instructions show you can specify which CT ports correspond to which phase. Perhaps this is configured incorrectly in the Tesla firmware of the Neurio W2? You would think Tesla support would be able to see that though... I‘ve had a ticket in with Tesla for over a month now with their “Tier 2“ support that’s been “escalated” after I inquired about it but still haven’t heard anything.

Supporting the issue, somewhat; Finding a solution to the problem or fixing it no. Having two electrical panels do you have 4 CTs? It most likely is some sort of configuration issue on the back end or with these newer devices. Telsa was onsite at my home trying to figure this out with an engineer in California for over an hour. My solution only has one panel but two inverters that made the configuration much simpler. At the end of the day reversing the CTs as described in this thread worked and has been working for months now. The sense device is just better and is what I reply on mostly, but I do compare both from time to time. I would say you need someone to come out and look at it. Maybe they have more information now on how to get them working properly. If they ever really fix this, it will break my solution any many others, I fear.

 

[shred86]

Supporting the issue, somewhat; Finding a solution to the problem or fixing it no. Having two electrical panels do you have 4 CTs? It most likely is some sort of configuration issue on the back end or with these newer devices. Telsa was onsite at my home trying to figure this out with an engineer in California for over an hour. My solution only has one panel but two inverters that made the configuration much simpler. At the end of the day reversing the CTs as described in this thread worked and has been working for months now. The sense device is just better and is what I reply on mostly, but I do compare both from time to time. I would say you need someone to come out and look at it. Maybe they have more information now on how to get them working properly. If they ever really fix this, it will break my solution any many others, I fear.

Yeah, four CTs but they only occupy two CT ports (CT1 & CT2) since they are combined using a Y-splitter cable which I think is a part of the problem. I’m trying to get a service visit scheduled to have them remove the Y-splitter cable and just use CT3 & CT4 for the second 100A panel, just like the Generac PWRview installation instructions show for a 2 panel setup. I really have no idea how a Y-splitter cable is supposed to work when you can have a situation where one of the CT clamps to one panel is measuring export and the other CT clamp on that same Y-splitter is measuring import. My guess is it’s just adding up the totals and reporting it all as export hence the high grid export values I’m seeing, which also appears to affect the solar production value on the main screen of the Tesla app. I suspect this is only a part of the problem though based on all the information in this thread. Dealing with Tesla support is painful, but hopefully someone will look at my support ticket soon and let me schedule a service visit.

 

[shred86]

So I'm giving this a shot... moved the CT clamp plugged into CT2 over to CT4. I then flipped the orientation of that CT clamp (I have two panels, four total CT clamps so I had to flip two of them... one going to each panel on the same phase). What's really confusing to me now is the Metering page on the Tesla inverter web UI makes no sense. You can't configure it for CT1 and CT4 set to "Site" with CT2 and CT3 set to "None", it just throws an error saying you have to use CT1 & 2 together and CT3 & 4 together. Since it hasn't been mentioned here, I'm assuming everyone just left this page alone. However, that just suggests to me that now we're only using CT1, so only measuring one phase... and this some how is accurate? This would seem to be essentially the same as only having a single CT clamp (CT1). I don't get it. I'll give it a shot though.

 

[jgleigh]

I think most of us who were able to move CT2 to CT4 have a Powerwall+/Gateway setup and the interface is slightly different. It allows us to use CT1/CT4 without any errors.

 

[shred86]

I see a few setups in this thread that are inverter only (no powerwall)... at least I don't see it in their app screenshots. I'm guessing everyone just left the Metering page alone. It seems really strange, but this post by @JCLJorgenson is pretty informative. It seems just running 1 CT clamp, he was getting a very high reading (which itself seems odd) but after connecting the second CT clamp in a reversed orientation using the CT4 port, it dropped the CT1 reading down to correct values.

I'm guessing some how whatever the CT clamp going to CT4 is measuring has an effect on the output value of CT1... almost like everything is being added together within the Neurio itself and just reporting the correct total Watts for both phase through CT1. Who knows, but so far it does look far more believable to me. I'm going to compare it with my energy company in a few days to see how they match up.

Edit: Just to verify, I did test the phase that the reversed CT clamp is on (CT4) just to make sure its actually being accounted for. My car charger is on that electrical phase and sure enough, when I turn it on, I can see a big increase in grid import/home consumption. It seems to be accurate and match all the previous comments. I‘ll know in a few days how accurate it is when I do the comparison with my energy company readings.

 

[shred86]

I posted about this in my other thread but wanted to follow up here:

So I went ahead and compared it with my digital clamp meter... measured around 123V for each service line so I just used that as to multiply with my Amps measurements. I pulled the two CT clamps off going to the 100A panel so I was just looking at the clamps going to the 200A panel.

Bottom line, it's definitely not matching with this "fix". At least from what I'm seeing, it's pretty clear this "fix" is also just measuring the phase on CT1. When I pulled off the CT clamp going to CT2, it did not change the readings on CT1. I realize @JCLJorgenson mentioned he saw the readings jump with just one CT clamp but I did notice he was looking at the Tesla app which can be drastically delayed and I've seen values jump around. I was looking at the inverter page which is near real-time.

I reverted back to how Neurio is supposed to be installed and what I found was CT2 always seemed to match fairly close. However, CT1 seems to be the issue. When exporting to the grid, it looks like CT1 is basically double the value of the measurements I'm getting with the digital clamp meter. When I was exporting much less to the grid (higher demand from the home), the numbers were closer aligned and at one point, they seemed to match. I also noticed this behavior while the inverter was booting up and solar generation wasn't occurring. High grid import numbers were inflated.

Example, Tesla inverter page showed CT1 exporting 5,200W. I measured around 21.1 Amps, multiplied by 123 = ~2,600W.

I'll still compare my energy company report when I get the data with the proposed "fix". I ran it like that all of yesterday so I'll just compare that day. However, based on what I saw today, it seemed pretty clear to me this wasn't fixing my issue.

I also tried moving CT1 to CT4 (and CT2 to CT3) to see if maybe that would change anything but the behavior was identical.

As a side note, I did confirm the Y-splitters aren't an issue for a two panel setup like mine, even when solar generation from the 200A panel is feeding into the 100A panel. It just subtracts the difference and the totals end up being correct (well, minus this issue we're talking about).

 

[shred86]

I just went and checked this again to make sure:

ACs off

CT1: 467 W import
Clamp meter: 246 W

CT2: 33 W import
Clamp meter: 61.5 W

ACs on

CT1: 4,400 W import
Clamp meter: 2982 W

CT2: 930 W import
Clamp meter: 1082 W

ACs on (second measurement)

CT1: 5,700 W import
Clamp meter: 2829 W

CT2: 792 W import
Clamp meter: 1143 W

So even during low home energy demand, there's cases where it's double. But, it's also not always double the value and CT2 readings can also sometimes be a bit off. I know how I'm measuring with a clamp meter isn't extremely accurate, but I'd expect these to be roughly in the ballpark...