Tesla now RENTS solar panels

[vickh]

Also I wonder if they'd throw free "standard" install of the free home wall charger they texted about .Can't see it costing too much extra while they're putting in the inverter.

 

[SureValla]

My biggest concern is risking that the price will go up. The people I've spoken to assure me it wont go up that much if at all in the first year but without that in writing I'm not convinced. Putting panels on my roof leaves me prone to the price skyrocketing to 1000/mo if Tesla wanted to and I'd have no choice but to cancel and be out $1500. I know they likely dont want to do this but I dont like the exposure. Why wont they guarantee the rate for the first year at least?

I'm also concerned about who maintains the system. The contract says its me but the rep said it was them and they would go through the manufacturer's warranty if anything went wrong. This didn't give me a good feeling about having to contact Panasonic or Honeywell (rep told me they use honeywell panels in CT)

I'm also concerned about if the system is down do I still pay the rental fee? What if its down for months?

I also dont like how the contract says all solar incentives go to Tesla. This scares me into thinking net metering and sell back of any kWh go to them too. Not likely but again like above I want it in writing.

I emaiied my guy these questions to get a response in writing. Its been a day and a half and no response. Still also no layout from the engineers and its been 4 days since I put money down.

I'm also concerned they will dump poor or used panels on me. Do they guarantee it will produce a minimum amount? I dont see that anywhere.

Lastly I am very concerned about who is doing the install here. Especially in light of the Walmart fires being attributed to shoddy installation practices.

 

[SureValla]

timn,

I share many of these concerns, but wanted to relay my feedback from my limited experience of... this morning. I filled out the call back form at 10PM last night, and had a call from a Tesla rep by 11AM this morning. She also immediately emailed me with a few links so I had her direct phone number and email for any questions I might have. She was somewhat knowledgeable on the general program, but did give some vague answers.

Question: "What are the specific installation methods used (what kind of conduit will be run on my roof and down my siding, how will the conduits enter the house, etc"

Answer (paraphrasing): That all depends on the specific system they calculate and design, the engineer that does that design will be able to answer more.

Question: What is your opinion on the Net Metering situation in Connecticut?

Answer: We think it's stable for now, but there is always the possibility in the future that it goes away and we have no estimates at this time what the repercussions of that are.... but you always have the option of getting it removed. [reasonable response]

Question: I'm a big supporter of Tesla, but an honest concern is what happens if Tesla goes under in 10 years and I still have these panels?

Answer: Obviously we believe Tesla will remain successful, however if that situation arose we would expect the business would be maintained or otherwise taken over by another entity. [this seems reasonable and likely to me as well].

Question: The fact that the subscription price can arbitrarily change seems a little open ended, what's the deal?

Answer: It could go up OR down in the future depending on the market and other factors. It would not go up much, and it would not go down much either. Obviously we recognize that if you aren't saving money, you're not likely to keep the system installed. [this makes sense logically to me. I also feel like $1500 removal would barely cover Tesla's labor costs to get the equipment back and seal the roof penetrations... so I would think they really don't want to remove these if they can avoid it?]

Question: If I did cancel, do I immediately owe the $1500 removal fee?

Answer: No you would have some time and it could be multiple months until Tesla was ready to remove it. [I tried to press her on this and got a fairly wishy washy response. My gut feeling is that you could cancel and probably hold them off on charging for removal for a while if you were considering resubscribing].

Remember too net metering ends for everyone in 2039 too

 

[erikreynolds]

Remember too net metering ends for everyone in 2039 too

Was just reading about that actually. Frankly, I would be surprised if I still had this system AND owned this home in 20 years but that is good to know!

 

[vickh]

My biggest concern is risking that the price will go up. The people I've spoken to assure me it wont go up that much if at all in the first year but without that in writing I'm not convinced. Putting panels on my roof leaves me prone to the price skyrocketing to 1000/mo if Tesla wanted to and I'd have no choice but to cancel and be out $1500. I know they likely dont want to do this but I dont like the exposure. Why wont they guarantee the rate for the first year at least?.

why not just stop paying and leave panels there.

I do share your shoddy install concern and curious to find out who they use in PHX.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Also I wonder if they'd throw free "standard" install of the free home wall charger they texted about .Can't see it costing too much extra while they're putting in the inverter.

I doubt it would be free but I'm sure they could add it for a set cost. If you don't already have the wall connector, they could provide it for an additional cost as well.

We originally had two 14-50 outlets installed by a different electrician several years ago. We then upgraded to three load-balanced wall connectors when we had our solar and Powerwalls installed last year. They charged us a flat $1500 for installation of the three wall connectors which we felt was a good deal since it was a big job and less expensive than what we had paid for the two 14-50 outlets to be installed. They ran all new wiring in conduit, upgraded the panel in the garage, added a secondary panel just for the wall connectors, etc.

 

[vickh]

I doubt it would be free but I'm sure they could add it for a set cost. If you don't already have the wall connector, they could provide it for an additional cost as well.

they're doing a free wall connector text deal (search Model 3 forum) , install costs are not mentioned (I understand that it varies but mine would be located right by the breaker box so hopefully reasonable if I get this solar deal too> )

 

[SureValla]

why not just stop paying and leave panels there.

I do share your shoddy install concern and curious to find out who they use in PHX.

Its not clear to me that you can stop paying and leave the panels. The contract is ambiguous there at best.

 

[vickh]

Its not clear to me that you can stop paying and leave the panels. The contract is ambiguous there at best.

I'm curious about the exit clause too, esp .since we might be selling soon, so not interested in purchase/ lease

Will double check that but electrek is pretty clear about that point. Also makes sense if Tesla can continue to get solar credits/power for the install if they'd let it be

 

[SureValla]

I'm curious about the exit clause too, esp .since we might be selling soon, so not interested in purchase/ lease

Will double check that but electrek is pretty clear about that point. Also makes sense if Tesla can continue to get solar credits/power for the install if they'd let it be

I'm trying to figure out how Tesla would continue to get solar credits/power for the install. On my house there is 1 meter. My electric company does not install another for solar installs (reference everyone else on my street who has solar). Its my electric account, Tesla doesnt have access to it.

Tesla may know what the system is producing but they dont' know how much of it I'm using and therefore wouldnt know how much is being sold back to the grid.

If the panels are still active net metering would still be in effect offsetting my usage. I dont see a way around that so that Tesla gets a benefit. I would say they would have to de-energize the panels entirely.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I'm trying to figure out how Tesla would continue to get solar credits/power for the install. On my house there is 1 meter. My electric company does not install another for solar installs (reference everyone else on my street who has solar). Its my electric account, Tesla doesnt have access to it.

Tesla may know what the system is producing but they dont' know how much of it I'm using and therefore wouldnt know how much is being sold back to the grid.

If the panels are still active net metering would still be in effect offsetting my usage. I dont see a way around that so that Tesla gets a benefit. I would say they would have to de-energize the panels entirely.

Simple. They install a second meter. See the discussion earlier in this thread.

Those existing houses don't need a second meter but any renters would have two. Problem solved.

 

[SureValla]

Simple. They install a second meter. See the discussion earlier in this thread.

Those existing houses don't need a second meter but any renters would have two. Problem solved.

assuming they do, does that mean they get the money for any excess sale back to the grid even when you are paying the rental?

 

[MorrisonHiker]

assuming they do, does that mean they get the money for any excess sale back to the grid even when you are paying the rental?

That could be part of their business model.

I bought my solar system but our utility requires two meters so they can track net metering and renewable energy credits. I now have two accounts with my power company, one for each meter. Every month, I get a statement showing my production. A couple weeks later, I get the regular bill which shows my usage and then a credit for the production. If Tesla is installing these for renters, they could just keep the production meter account in their name. They could then issue credits to the renter based on production. We don't know how much of those production credits are actually applied to the renter's bill. I don't think they are really making much of the $50 rental fee so they have to be making money somewhere...

I don't know about the renewable energy credits (RECs) in other states but in Colorado, they are a measly $0.005 per kWh for systems less than 25 kW (on top of the production credits) Based on my production, I estimate I'll get about $125 for the past years production. Systems over 25 kW earn $0.0375 per kWh. If I could add that much solar, I could earn over $1400 a year in RECs alone. If Tesla is able to combine these separate rental installations, operating as a distributed virtual solar powerplant, they could be easily make hundreds per year in RECs from each renter's household.

 

[Chancellor32]

One of the few advantages of APS here in NW valley I guess. Do they warranty/check out the roof? Any referral deals like with the cars??

We might be selling our house in a yr or so this would be a great option for the future buyer but I find it hard to believe this part:

"They pay for the system upfront and install it for as little as $50 and if the customer changes its mind and wants to stop paying, Tesla will just de-energize the system.

It will even leave it on the customer’s roof. If they want it off their roof, they will have to pay Tesla $1,500 to remove it.

Of course, Tesla is betting that no one is going to want to do that because their monthly prices are so attractive. You would need to send more money to your electric utility than what you are paying to Tesla"

No referrals at this time unfortunately! If you are moving in less than 5 years I wouldn't even go through with solar. Not worth the headache associated with trying to sell the house with leased panels on it. Especially in APS area solar makes a lot of sense so its definitely worth getting but make sure to get it on a house you will be in for at least 5-10 years!

 

[vickh]

No referrals at this time unfortunately! If you are moving in less than 5 years I wouldn't even go through with solar. Not worth the headache associated with trying to sell the house with leased panels on it. Especially in APS area solar makes a lot of sense so its definitely worth getting but make sure to get it on a house you will be in for at least 5-10 years!

hmmm I will call you to discuss over weekend b/c i thought this tesla deal is different then traditional lease since worse case its' $1500 to take down?. Hope all's well!

 

[SureValla]

That could be part of their business model.

I bought my solar system but our utility requires two meters so they can track net metering and renewable energy credits. I now have two accounts with my power company, one for each meter. Every month, I get a statement showing my production. A couple weeks later, I get the regular bill which shows my usage and then a credit for the production. If Tesla is installing these for renters, they could just keep the production meter account in their name. They could then issue credits to the renter based on production. We don't know how much of those production credits are actually applied to the renter's bill. I don't think they are really making much of the $50 rental fee so they have to be making money somewhere...

I don't know about the renewable energy credits (RECs) in other states but in Colorado, they are a measly $0.005 per kWh for systems less than 25 kW (on top of the production credits) Based on my production, I estimate I'll get about $125 for the past years production. Systems over 25 kW earn $0.0375 per kWh. If I could add that much solar, I could earn over $1400 a year in RECs alone. If Tesla is able to combine these separate rental installations, operating as a distributed virtual solar powerplant, they could be easily make hundreds per year in RECs from each renter's household.

Just got this response in writing from tesla via email

"In regards to the contract stating “Tesla is the solar beneficiary of any incentives”, that is in regards to any Federal Tax credit or state incentives available. You will still be receiving the full benefit of the net metered electricity. Tesla has no way of controlling the electricity you send to your utility provider."

 

[Chancellor32]

hmmm I will call you to discuss over weekend b/c i thought this tesla deal is different then traditional lease since worse case its' $1500 to take down?. Hope all's well!

Sounds good buddy! My thought is if you are going to move soon hold off.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Just got this response in writing from tesla via email

"In regards to the contract stating “Tesla is the solar beneficiary of any incentives”, that is in regards to any Federal Tax credit or state incentives available. You will still be receiving the full benefit of the net metered electricity. Tesla has no way of controlling the electricity you send to your utility provider."

Ok, so it sounds like Tesla gets all the RECs and tax credits but not the net metered electricity. That means they'd get the federal tax credit which is currently 30%. If you cancel, they could still get the RECs until the equipment is removed. Then they could apply for the tax credit again when they install it on another house.

Thanks for confirming. I wonder what they mean by "no way of controlling the electricity you send to your utility provider". I don't think they meant that. If the grid goes down, they'd better be "controlling the electricity you send to your utility provider"!

When we purchased our system, we noticed that we get the RECs for the first 10 years and after that, Tesla gets them.

 

[vickh]

Do they put a lien on the house, like a traditional lease?

 

[SureValla]

Ok, so it sounds like Tesla gets all the RECs and tax credits but not the net metered electricity. That means they'd get the federal tax credit which is currently 30%. If you cancel, they could still get the RECs until the equipment is removed. Then they could apply for the tax credit again when they install it on another house.

Thanks for confirming. I wonder what they mean by "no way of controlling the electricity you send to your utility provider". I don't think they meant that. If the grid goes down, they'd better be "controlling the electricity you send to your utility provider"!

When we purchased our system, we noticed that we get the RECs for the first 10 years and after that, Tesla gets them.

Is there a minimum amount of time the system needs to be operational in order to qualify for the federal tax credit?