Tesla now RENTS solar panels

[vickh]

FYI, the $1,500 removal fee is being waived for solar rental orders for the month of September only, according to a new tweet by Elon: Elon Musk on Twitter

Yes! I'm taking the leap now. $50 down.

7. System Removal. If the system needs to be removed for any reason, such as your cancellation or for roof repairs, you agree to give Tesla reasonable access to your Home to remove the System at Tesla’s convenience and availability. Tesla will remove the system at no cost to you. Tesla, or one of our subcontractors, will patch and seal all roof penetrations & Home Improvement Agreement V1.3.0, 9/7/19 Tesla, Inc. 3 associated with removal of the System. Tesla shall have no obligation to repair any ordinary wear and tear on the Home, or to provide any replacement parts. You may not modify or remove the System without written consent from Tesla



Only bad news so far is that I don't get a referral credit per loot app(shows up as canceled ), even though I used my own link Free Supercharger Miles and my wife's name. Not sure if it's b/c self referrals are not allowed or b/c we're renting?

Hopefully I'll get the Text charger deal. Haven't heard back from my texts but I'm only at the prep stage:

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[Quickstart88]

Yes! I'm taking the leap now. $50 down.

7. System Removal. If the system needs to be removed for any reason, such as your cancellation or for roof repairs, you agree to give Tesla reasonable access to your Home to remove the System at Tesla’s convenience and availability. Tesla will remove the system at no cost to you. Tesla, or one of our subcontractors, will patch and seal all roof penetrations & Home Improvement Agreement V1.3.0, 9/7/19 Tesla, Inc. 3 associated with removal of the System. Tesla shall have no obligation to repair any ordinary wear and tear on the Home, or to provide any replacement parts. You may not modify or remove the System without written consent from Tesla



Only bad news so far is that I don't get a referral credit per loot app(shows up as canceled ), even though I used my own link Free Supercharger Miles and my wife's name. Not sure if it's b/c self referrals are not allowed or b/c we're renting?

Hopefully I'll get the Text charger deal. Haven't heard back from my texts but I'm only at the prep stage:

Track Your Order

• Home Assessment
  
  We're preparing for installation
  
  Utility Bill: Uploaded

I am evaluating this. What is your normal utility bill per month and your average kilowatt consumption by day or month?
is there extra charge if they need to upgrade your breaker panel to a 200 amps panel or that your current breaker panel is already 200 amp?
Not sure if referral code work for solar rent.
You can use my if you like. Let me know.

 

[Quickstart88]

@vickh - you are in AZ. I read somewhere that your state have a 1K incentive also. Why rent when you can outright buy it for 10k-3k (30% tax saving) and 1K off from AZ state. That put your 3.6 KW system for 6K. Don't have to pay for the $50 a month.

 

[vickh]

I am evaluating this. What is your normal utility bill per month and your average kilowatt consumption by day or month?
is there extra charge if they need to upgrade your breaker panel to a 200 amps panel or that your current breaker panel is already 200 amp?
Not sure if referral code work for solar rent.
You can use my if you link. Let me know.

Current breaker panel is already 200 amps. I already have a 3 so trying to use my own . I'm mainly doing this so I don't have to worry about TOU usage (wife and kid are complaining even though I tried supercooling)

 

[vickh]

@vickh - you are in AZ. I read somewhere that your state have a 1K incentive also. Why rent when you can outright buy it for 10k-3k (30% tax saving) and 1K off from AZ state. That put your 3.6 KW system for 6K. Don't have to pay for the $50 a month.

b/c I might be moving in a year or so and this was minimal risk ($600/yr)+ they do any maintenance. Not sure if Tesla does a rent to buy out option?

Also is the 3k refundable credit beyond tax liability? I already have the $3.8K credit for the 3.

 

[Quickstart88]

b/c I might be moving in a year or so and this was minimal risk ($600/yr)+ they do any maintenance. Not sure if Tesla does a rent to buy out option?

Also is the 3k refundable credit beyond tax liability? I already have the $3.8K credit for the 3.

ouch - so many road block. Glad you already have a 200 amps panel.
Most CA home are on 100 amp breaker.
I think to rent or own in CA they will need to upgrade your breaker panel to 200 amps.
That's an extra 2k for Breaker Panel upgrade. I think.

 

[Quickstart88]

Yes there is a rent to buy options but that can get complicated. If you rent, off the bat you are out 3k and I am not sure if you qualified for your state 1k incentive. Tesla web site say if you rent follow by buy, there some pro-rating for you to claim that 30% tax stakes.
I also heard somewhere that you must rent for at least 5 years before you can buy. I could be wrong and might be confused by other solar quote I been receiving.

 

[Ulmo]

Well, here goes! Yesterday I put in the $130 deposit for a 7.6kW system. Today I received an incorrect email stating "Your Solar payment details are ready." The panels are listed from South Korea (Hanwha 315W premium black panels) and the inverter from Taiwan (Delta), which countries we have just recently learned are more pro-USA than some of the regional countries around there, so I'm OK with their product selection. The system is not 7.6kW; it is 7,560 Watts. Doing the arithmetic, that means 24 panels, which is equal to what they pictured in their order form. They are estimating 8,766kWh/year production, and say they will degrade 0.5% yearly (so 86% after 30 years).

STC 315, PTC 292.2, no additional performance data in CEC database.

So far, everything is good, except they put the agreement in someone else's name, and sent me a Payment Details page that doesn't talk about rental ($22,800 gross price less $6,840 tax credit equals net cost $15,960), and there is a button to agree to a contract that says "By clicking accept, you agree to the Energy Products Purchase Agreement, Tesla E-Sign Consent and the above price details", but when I clicked on the Purchase Agreement, the web site does not exist so I don't know what the agreement is, and they did not show me an estimated roof design for the panels since there are some existing satellite pictures that are outdated (Google) although other satellite pictures are more appropriately current (Apple) so I want to confirm they know that, and now I'm starting to wonder if they looked at my electrical panel design even though they were the last people to work on it with the PowerWall install and have all the data. So I called the toll free number and quickly got ahold of a very nice lady who understood everything I said about the name on the agreement being wrong and the rental agreement missing, and she said she's going to have them correct everything from scratch, that I shouldn't sign anything yet until they do, and that they'll fix it and get back to me. So, it ... basically ... is going along fine. The fact that someone answered the phone right away, understood, and is processing the next step makes all the difference. The part I'm most impressed by is that they already know the design. The name and agreement missing part is stuff that can and will be fixed before it moves forward (I'm not signing anything with someone else's name on it).

I suppose they are going to do a site survey according to steps described by other people? That sounds expensive. Why don't they just have a drone come fly by and take pictures, and have the homeowner take pictures of the interior equipment? That would be far less expensive, and avoids the liability problems of having someone go on the roof. If someone does physically come by, I really hope they use a drone rather than go up there themselves.

 

[Jae001]

I just had the home inspection from Tesla and they do need to come out. The tech went in the attic to make sure there was no water leak or water damage visible. He also too my main panel apart to look at the wiring and took pictures of everything. He also went on the roof and did several tests on the shingles to make sure they were in good shape. The visit too over an hour. He was very professional and through. This can't be done by a home owner or a drone.

 

[Quickstart88]

I just had the home inspection from Tesla and they do need to come out. The tech went in the attic to make sure there was no water leak or water damage visible. He also too my main panel apart to look at the wiring and took pictures of everything. He also went on the roof and did several tests on the shingles to make sure they were in good shape. The visit too over an hour. He was very professional and through. This can't be done by a home owner or a drone.

Can anyone let me know either rent or owner, does Tesla upgrade your breaker panel to 200 amps included or is that extra cost.

 

[Jae001]

I have a 100 AMP panel and I signed up for the rental program. No they don't upgrade your panel for free on the rental program. Tesla quoted me $3,800 to upgrade it. I found an electrician to do it for $3,000. It's easier if you have Tesla do everything so there are no finger pointing if something is not done right but I trust my electrician. I believe on the purchase you have to upgrade your panel too that is why Tesla is so cheap compared to others out there. Other quotes I got from Sunrun, Sunlux and others all included the panel upgrade but were way more expensive then Tesla.

 

[Quickstart88]

I have a 100 AMP panel and I signed up for the rental program. No they don't upgrade your panel for free on the rental program. Tesla quoted me $3,800 to upgrade it. I found an electrician to do it for $3,000. It's easier if you have Tesla do everything so there are no finger pointing if something is not done right but I trust my electrician. I believe on the purchase you have to upgrade your panel too that is why Tesla is so cheap compared to others out there. Other quotes I got from Sunrun, Sunlux and others all included the panel upgrade but were way more expensive then Tesla.

It's strange that if your rent they don't upgrade but purchase they force you to upgrade. In theory, if you currently have a 100 amps breaker panel and you have a extra slot for a 50 amps breaker that should do it. But keep in mind that most tesla owner already use up a 50 amps for the mema 1450. The nema 1450 2nd gen mobile connector ( model 3 only) while it's hogging up a 50 amps breaker it only use max of 32 amps when charging. I suppose it's okay because most owner charging their EV at night and daytime the solar breaker is hanging on to the 50 amps leaving only 50 amps to be used by other appliances. I think with wall charger or Model S it more than 32 amps. 1st gen mobile connector is 42 amps. Not sure about wall charger.

If you rent or own the smaller system, it's okay to go with the 100 amps breaker provided you have a slot.
But medium and large system, you MUST upgrade your breaker panel to a 200 amps panel. From what I understand.

Keep in mind you can easily max out 100 amp and the breaker will pop.
But I don't know if solar which put juice in vs pulling juice out has equal affect to your 100 amp total panel.

 

[Quickstart88]

So owning is an additional 3k for the breaker upgrade.
$10,0000/3.8 = $2.62 per wh
$10,000 = $3K (breaker upgrade) = $13,000
13000/3.8= $3.42 cents.

That's higher then other solar quote I had.

 

[Ulmo]

It's strange that if your rent they don't upgrade but purchase they force you to upgrade.

That's not how I interpreted @Jae001's message, but I could be wrong. That is, I think @Jae001 meant Tesla forces you to pay $3,800 to upgrade the breaker panel just to rent the solar panels.

 

[Ulmo]

I'm starting to see the problems with Tesla's one size fits all approach:

• We live in a highly wooded area. I've never seen a serious solar proposal that didn't include handling individually shaded panels. Yet, Tesla has presented a proposal which has no mention of handling individually shaded panels. That error could cut our receiving of sun power by half or more. The current solar system I have obviously doesn't have that problem.
• I have owned Tesla inverters in two products: a Model S, and two PowerWall 2's. In both cases, the inverters worked fine. However, I am now reading a lot of bad reviews to the very unknown inverter manufacturer that Tesla has selected. The inverter manufacturers of all the other proposals I've ever seen were well known with good track records, and the inverter I have on my current solar system is one of the top 2 best known in the world, and I have not had problems with it. What's worse, I researched the model Tesla is proposing, and it looks like it tops out very near the rating of the panel system. On days where I receive 130% of peak sunlight, I am concerned with how well that inverter will function. Furthermore, reviews of that inverter state that it has immature AFCI detection; could that cause a lot of output failures?
• I've always shopped using CEC rated panels, but Tesla is advertising using rounded-up STC rated panel numbers. The actual CEC rating of the panels Tesla is proposing is 92% of the rating they advertised when I paid the deposit.

So far, this is turning out to be the same old fiascos Tesla intentionally pulled with the lying about battery sizes and other things they have done in the past. It is also further evidence of their intent to try one-size-fits-all mentality that does not respect the needs of their customers. Since I was asked to wait for all the documents to be rewritten from scratch, and I found out that Tesla has not had a chance to verify the site conditions, I will give them those two chances to remedy those seeming errors. I'll have to wait to see what proposal finally comes out.

Research shows a similar tactic used for others: Delta Solivia Inverter or SolarEdge Inverter? - Solar Panels - Solar Panels Forum

Since I am still 1% above the total performance estimates with Tesla, they say the system is "good, greens across the board".

Good catch. In their proposal to me, they are proposing "Est. yearly production: 8,766 kWh" for a system that is advertised as 30% larger than an existing system that produced 3% more than their estimate in 2018 and is on schedule to meet their estimate with panels that are at a lower rating. It looks like in addition to the above problems, Tesla lowballs their estimated production, too.

I'll just add all of these detriments into my review of their proposal when it finally comes out to see if it's still worth it.

 

[SureValla]

• I have owned Tesla inverters in two products: a Model S, and two PowerWall 2's. In both cases, the inverters worked fine. However, I am now reading a lot of bad reviews to the very unknown inverter manufacturer that Tesla has selected. The inverter manufacturers of all the other proposals I've ever seen were well known with good track records, and the inverter I have on my current solar system is one of the top 2 best known in the world, and I have not had problems with it. What's worse, I researched the model Tesla is proposing, and it looks like it tops out very near the rating of the panel system. On days where I receive 130% of peak sunlight, I am concerned with how well that inverter will function. Furthermore, reviews of that inverter state that it has immature AFCI detection; could that cause a lot of output failures?

what inverter are they proposing for you? For me its a solaredge

 

[vickh]

I'm starting to see the problems with Tesla's one size fits all approach:

• We live in a highly wooded area. I've never seen a serious solar proposal that didn't include handling individually shaded panels. Yet, Tesla has presented a proposal which has no mention of handling individually shaded panels. That error could cut our receiving of sun power by half or more. The current solar system I have obviously doesn't have that problem.
• I have owned Tesla inverters in two products: a Model S, and two PowerWall 2's. In both cases, the inverters worked fine. However, I am now reading a lot of bad reviews to the very unknown inverter manufacturer that Tesla has selected. The inverter manufacturers of all the other proposals I've ever seen were well known with good track records, and the inverter I have on my current solar system is one of the top 2 best known in the world, and I have not had problems with it. What's worse, I researched the model Tesla is proposing, and it looks like it tops out very near the rating of the panel system. On days where I receive 130% of peak sunlight, I am concerned with how well that inverter will function. Furthermore, reviews of that inverter state that it has immature AFCI detection; could that cause a lot of output failures?
• I've always shopped using CEC rated panels, but Tesla is advertising using rounded-up STC rated panel numbers. The actual CEC rating of the panels Tesla is proposing is 92% of the rating they advertised when I paid the deposit.

So far, this is turning out to be the same old fiascos Tesla intentionally pulled with the lying about battery sizes and other things they have done in the past. It is also further evidence of their intent to try one-size-fits-all mentality that does not respect the needs of their customers. Since I was asked to wait for all the documents to be rewritten from scratch, and I found out that Tesla has not had a chance to verify the site conditions, I will give them those two chances to remedy those seeming errors. I'll have to wait to see what proposal finally comes out.

Research shows a similar tactic used for others: Delta Solivia Inverter or SolarEdge Inverter? - Solar Panels - Solar Panels Forum


Good catch. In their proposal to me, they are proposing "Est. yearly production: 8,766 kWh" for a system that is advertised as 30% larger than an existing system that produced 3% more than their estimate in 2018 and is on schedule to meet their estimate with panels that are at a lower rating. It looks like in addition to the above problems, Tesla lowballs their estimated production, too.

I'll just add all of these detriments into my review of their proposal when it finally comes out to see if it's still worth it.

these type of issues is exactly why I'm renting. If there's a problem, off they go..

I hope the free wall charger is installed safely and at a reasonable price though b/c that I want to keep! They did confirm that it had to be installed on this promo. I wonder if that's where they make their profit, Install costs? My breaker is right by where my charger would go so i can just pull in vs backing in.

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[BM3B]

I have done some math, I think it’s right:
Ignoring my Model 3 charging on dedicated meter...
1,500 sq ft home
35 kWh per day average for full year (between 15-60 kWh per day)
Last years SCE bill $1,800 for my house
Projected cost for one year rental for 7.5 kW system is $1,560 ($130 x 12)
+ usage charge from SCE since I won’t have Powerwall is $500 (I looked at three examples and calculated my new TOU grid feed or pull by hour and extrapolated for the year)
New cost $2,060
So it will cost me $500 more per year and I have the risk that the system fails then I get destroyed for peak usage without solar.

Seems like even with the zero installation and zero removal fee I will still lose money. This is disappointing. I may still do it for environmental reasons but not financial.

 

[one5n1neSDoo]

9/8/19: Placed order for 3.8 kW rental in California.
9/12/19: Received layout.
9/30/19: Tentative installation.

 

[BM3B]

9/8/19: Placed order for 3.8 kW rental in California.
9/12/19: Received layout.
9/30/19: Tentative installation.

Great! Do you have to upgrade your panel, if so is it included or do you have to pay extra?