This reinforces my suspicion that these units were just put on the store to clear out the surplus from the Destination Charging program. That program now strives to allow site hosts to collect charging fees from users, so they need Gen3 connected stations to do that. Hopefully they will make a J1772 Gen3 version and make them available to the Destination Charging program and to the public through the Tesla online store.
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Tesla now selling Gen 2 Wall Connector with J1772 plug
- Thread starter jcanoe
- Start date
Hopefully with the Gen3s they'll also be able to mix and match between the Tesla connector and J1772 connector units and still be able to network them together for load balancing, which they couldn't do with the Gen2 units.
My wife just bought a VW ID.4 and we want to charge it on the same circuit I previously installed to charge my Model 3. Here are a few notes on what we did and how it's working:
I upgraded the Gen 2 HPWC to a Gen 3 and bought a second Gen 3. These were installed on Jan 3, 2021. We are using the TeslaTap Mini 60A to adapt the ID.4 and are getting a full 48A/11kW charge at a peak charge rate of 43mph. The two Gen 3 units were upgraded by the electrician with the required firmware add-on to enable load sharing. This setup, using the TeslaTap Mini 60 on the ID.4, is more flexible than installing a dedicated J-1772 connector. If we decide to switch how we park the cars, we can just move the adapter to the other HPWC.
The system uses one 60A branch circuit from the garage 100A sub-panel, the same circuit I previously used for my Gen 2 HPWC. We had the units installed by a Tesla-qualified electrician (same who did our previous installation). The buss connections for the two Gen 3 HPWCs are in a J-box installed near the sub-panel with no additional circuit breaker. All connections torqued as required by Tesla. Each Gen3 HPWC has GFCI protection in-built, so no GFI required on the branch circuit. Building inspector signed off the permit the following day. The two Gen3 HPWCs are joined to my home WiFi, to receive firmware updates. However, they communicate directly with each other, not via the home WiFi for load balancing. Home WiFi is not required, though firmware updates are tedious without it. All configuration and firmware add-on and update was performed by the electrician/installer.
When the TeslaTap Mini 60 is attached, it signals the HPWC to go into "J-1772" mode (according to the instructions). After a few seconds, the Tesla HPWC shows a solid blue light indication (not green). When charging the ID.4, the lights run top to bottom just as when charging a Tesla. When jacking into the ID.4, the car's charge indicator goes from white to green, then pulses while charging. When charging is complete, the Tesla HPWC returns to a solid blue indication.
When both units are connected to vehicles and requesting full power charge, the system splits 50/50 between the two cars... 24A for each vehicle. When either of them completes charging, the other vehicle gets the full 48A. I've seen all of these configurations and it is fully automatic and seamless.
The TeslaTap Mini 60 is compact and very well made. It is a quite tight fit to the Tesla handle, and there is a note in the instructions that this will be true. It was much tighter on my old Gen 2 HPWC than on the new Gen 3, but that is likely just random. Silicone spray lubricant was helpful (I used SailKote: SailKote Marine Dry Lubricant & Coating for Sails, Rigging, Deck Hardware and more. - McLube) And we won't remove the TeslaTap Mini unless we travel long distance, so it isn't a daily chore.
There is a lock eyelet to prevent the Telsa connector from being detached from the TeslaTap Mini adapter. I intend to install a Chicago screw through this hole so we don't do this by accident (which I've done a couple of times already). And when traveling, a small lock can be installed to prevent the adapter from going missing from a destination charger.
tl;dr — This is exactly what we wanted: use our existing 60A circuit, add a second vehicle, dynamic load balancing, Tesla and non-Tesla with no special tweaking of menus in vehicles. It just works!
Oops... The units were installed on Jan 3, 2022, last week, not 2021! Sheesh. This happens every year.
*facepalm*
Sooo, you torqued as per Tesla instructions, but did not use the breaker per each wall connector as the Tesla instructions say?
The Gen2 wall connectors allowed the wire joining in a junction box like that, but the Gen3 versions don't. I am not saying there is going to be a problem with it that way, but it's not per the manufacturer's directions, which makes it a code violation, albeit a minor one.
Sigh. This was installed by a Tesla-qualified electrician. This is all they do... EV charger installs. End-users cannot install load sharing Gen 3 units as DIY — special instructions and firmware add-on is required that Tesla makes available only to qualified installers.
The J-box and buss bars is the approved way to connect all units to the same branch circuit. This is as true for the Gen 3 as it was for the Gen 2. And yes, the electrician torqued all connections as specified in the installation instructions. And there is no requirement to use a separate breaker for each unit. I asked. It's not required and adds no value.
I don't think that's correct. And page 24 of the Gen3 manual clearly says every HPWC is supposed to have its own breaker. It is therefore required, even if it doesn't add value. I suspect the reason they did it that way was to allow for different maximum currents per HPWC, which was not possible with the Gen2.
Hi @Sophias_dad, you may be misinterpreting the two pictorial examples on page 24, which are not normative requirements. There is no statement requiring breakers per unit.
The normative specification on page 24 is "Power sharing circuits may be installed in an electrical panel that supports other loads." Our power sharing circuit, we have only one 60A power sharing circuit, is installed in our 100A garage sub-panel on a single 60A breaker. That is according to specification. We have two Gen 3 HPWCs on that power sharing circuit, also matching the specification, which is four or fewer.
But most importantly, our circuit was designed by and the work was performed by a Tesla-qualified electrician according to their Tesla-specific training on installing Gen 3 HPWCs. All they do is install EV charger circuits (both residential and commercial). They have installed hundreds of them.
If others on this forum are interested in configuring a power sharing arrangement with Gen 3 HPWCs, I recommend they contact a Tesla-qualified electrician, as we did, and discuss their specific situation. This forum is not a suitable place to debate the hundreds of code requirements for high-power electrical work. Make one phone call, get all the answers you need that are relevant to you, your local code, and specific situation.
The normative specification on page 24 is "Power sharing circuits may be installed in an electrical panel that supports other loads." Our power sharing circuit, we have only one 60A power sharing circuit, is installed in our 100A garage sub-panel on a single 60A breaker. That is according to specification. We have two Gen 3 HPWCs on that power sharing circuit, also matching the specification, which is four or fewer.
But most importantly, our circuit was designed by and the work was performed by a Tesla-qualified electrician according to their Tesla-specific training on installing Gen 3 HPWCs. All they do is install EV charger circuits (both residential and commercial). They have installed hundreds of them.
If others on this forum are interested in configuring a power sharing arrangement with Gen 3 HPWCs, I recommend they contact a Tesla-qualified electrician, as we did, and discuss their specific situation. This forum is not a suitable place to debate the hundreds of code requirements for high-power electrical work. Make one phone call, get all the answers you need that are relevant to you, your local code, and specific situation.
You are misinterpreting that page, IMHO. The quote is saying "You don't need a dedicated subpanel to support one or more HPWCs, if you have the space for the breakers, you can put them in your main panel". In fact if you read the rest of that paragraph, its very clear that they DON'T want you sharing breakers between HPWCS, specifically "If space is limited or the main power supply is far from the Wall Connectors, installing a dedicated load center may be prudent". If they expect you to hang multiple HPWCs off one breaker, there would be no reason for a secondary load center(subpanel).
There's also no specification for four or fewer, unless you have a different manual than me. If you are following the pictures and getting from that that you may only have four HPWCs connected, why aren't you also following those same pictures showing every HPWC on its own dedicated breaker.
I really don't care. Maybe someday I'll call Tesla for a 'final' word from someone who is reading the exact same manual we apparently both have.
On the question of four or fewer, apologies for overstating that as a requirement, it isn't. It is however a recommendation, and a suitable upper limit for our circumstances. And we have only two wall connectors, so we are under the recommended limit. Here's how we calculated it:
Power sharing feature enables up to 16 wall connectors installed at the same site to intelligently share the site's total available power—that's a design maximum limit;
However, power sharing requires at least 6A of power per HPWC at 100% utilization;
We have 60A allocated to power sharing at our site;
We may therefore not provision more than eight HPWCs at our site.
All of this is in English on p.25, no need to look at the pictures and try to figure anything out from them.
Additionally, we are installing this system at our home, intending it for overnight charging of multiple vehicles. The table on p.25 recommends 12+ amps per HPWC at 100% utilization for 6+ hour charge time. Available current is 48A (see p.5), 48 / 12 = 4.
So we cannot practically provision more than four HPWCs to power share our 60A service for our intended use.
In our configuration—two HPWCs—our 100% utilization is 24A for each.
No need to look at the pictures to figure this out.
While this material in the manual is useful for end-purchasers to reason about their own site power and charging requirements, it is necessary to engage a licensed Tesla-qualified installer, as we did, to design and install the system. The installer will refer difficult situations to Tesla and adapt each situation to local code and to Tesla's recommendations. Best to get a site consultation before purchasing equipment to be sure your intended use can be satisfied.
Power sharing feature enables up to 16 wall connectors installed at the same site to intelligently share the site's total available power—that's a design maximum limit;
However, power sharing requires at least 6A of power per HPWC at 100% utilization;
We have 60A allocated to power sharing at our site;
We may therefore not provision more than eight HPWCs at our site.
All of this is in English on p.25, no need to look at the pictures and try to figure anything out from them.
Additionally, we are installing this system at our home, intending it for overnight charging of multiple vehicles. The table on p.25 recommends 12+ amps per HPWC at 100% utilization for 6+ hour charge time. Available current is 48A (see p.5), 48 / 12 = 4.
So we cannot practically provision more than four HPWCs to power share our 60A service for our intended use.
In our configuration—two HPWCs—our 100% utilization is 24A for each.
No need to look at the pictures to figure this out.
While this material in the manual is useful for end-purchasers to reason about their own site power and charging requirements, it is necessary to engage a licensed Tesla-qualified installer, as we did, to design and install the system. The installer will refer difficult situations to Tesla and adapt each situation to local code and to Tesla's recommendations. Best to get a site consultation before purchasing equipment to be sure your intended use can be satisfied.
I don't have a link for definitive reference, but as I recall, the current firmware only allows 4 WCs to load share today, regardless of what the manual says (16). In any case, you can set the sharing total to be greater than one maximum circuit. For example, you could share 4 WCs across a 100A sub-panel. That would allow one car to charge at 48A, two at 40A, three at 26A or four cars at 20A.
They're back - details are sparse but it appears to be a Gen 3 version.
J1772 Wall Connector
Our J1772 Wall Connector is a convenient charging solution for Tesla and non-Tesla electric vehicles alike, and is ideal for houses, apartments, hospitality properties and workplaces. With up to 70 kilometers ** of range added per hour, a 7.3 meter cable, multiple power settings and a versatile...
shop.tesla.com
Kind of funny that their J1772 charger is $250 more than the Tesla charger.They're back - details are sparse but it appears to be a Gen 3 version.
J1772 Wall Connector
Our J1772 Wall Connector is a convenient charging solution for Tesla and non-Tesla electric vehicles alike, and is ideal for houses, apartments, hospitality properties and workplaces. With up to 70 kilometers ** of range added per hour, a 7.3 meter cable, multiple power settings and a versatile...
Still probably the best charger for non-Teslas in the US.
bradtem
Robocar consultant
It is strange how much more it costs. The main reason to get it would be to combine with a gen3 as people are saying.
I also noticed the mobile connector is now back in stock and only $200 with both a 120v and 14-50 adapter included. That's a great price, one of the best for a 32a EVSE out there, especially with the swappable plug feature which is hard to find. I use the TMC as my home charger -- as should anybody who cares about cost because 32a is more than almost everybody needs (and all a non-long-range can take) and its main downside is the simpler appearance and the shorter cord -- but $200 vs. $400. At this price I might get another just so I can keep one in the car (right now I unplug it and take it for road trips only.) I wish I could buy it for even less without any plug adapters, as I already have all the ones I need. I use my dryer plug at home which is only 24a but again, that's more than most people need.
I also noticed the mobile connector is now back in stock and only $200 with both a 120v and 14-50 adapter included. That's a great price, one of the best for a 32a EVSE out there, especially with the swappable plug feature which is hard to find. I use the TMC as my home charger -- as should anybody who cares about cost because 32a is more than almost everybody needs (and all a non-long-range can take) and its main downside is the simpler appearance and the shorter cord -- but $200 vs. $400. At this price I might get another just so I can keep one in the car (right now I unplug it and take it for road trips only.) I wish I could buy it for even less without any plug adapters, as I already have all the ones I need. I use my dryer plug at home which is only 24a but again, that's more than most people need.
The link provided is to:
https://shop.tesla.com/en_ca/product/j1772-wall-connector
Are either (or both) of you sure that this is not pricing for the item in Canada, in Canadian dollars?
Here it is when I removed the "en_ca" in there that normally takes you to canadian items on the tesla site:
https://shop.tesla.com/product/j1772-wall-connector
Its $550 there.
Thankfully, the new listing for the J1772 Wall Connector specifically mentions power sharing. The previous iteration did not have this feature and the product listing specifically said that it did NOT have that feature.
This new gen3 J1772 wall connector is great news! Power sharing between TPC and J1772 will soon be a key feature for us. There are lots of compelling EVs on the market now, many households will end up with mixed Tesla and non-Tesla. I'm glad Tesla is embracing that with this product, as well as the CCS1 adapter (caravaning both cars together, or just meeting at a charging stop).
I was planning to use two gen3 TPC wall connectors, along with a 3rd party TPC->J1772 adapter, but this is better.
Tesla EVSE pricing remains highly competitive. Even at $550 USD it's priced well compared to other name brand EVSE, and the Tesla power sharing functionality is superior. Honestly I'd go with this Tesla gen3 J1772 wall connector even if I had only non-Tesla EVs.
Remember the days when the mobile connector was about $500 and the wall connector was around $1500? Granted they were both more powerful back then, but I think it's well established now that 32A-48A per EV is plenty for the VAST majority of people's daily charging needs, with supercharging/DCFC usually the best option when a midday top-off is needed. Especially since modern Teslas Supercharge so much faster than an original Model S, and are much more efficient in their energy use at the same time.
I was planning to use two gen3 TPC wall connectors, along with a 3rd party TPC->J1772 adapter, but this is better.
Tesla EVSE pricing remains highly competitive. Even at $550 USD it's priced well compared to other name brand EVSE, and the Tesla power sharing functionality is superior. Honestly I'd go with this Tesla gen3 J1772 wall connector even if I had only non-Tesla EVs.
Remember the days when the mobile connector was about $500 and the wall connector was around $1500? Granted they were both more powerful back then, but I think it's well established now that 32A-48A per EV is plenty for the VAST majority of people's daily charging needs, with supercharging/DCFC usually the best option when a midday top-off is needed. Especially since modern Teslas Supercharge so much faster than an original Model S, and are much more efficient in their energy use at the same time.
Since we already have 3 load balanced Tesla wall connectors, we just use a 3rd party TPC->J1772 adapter to charge the Rivian and don't plan on replacing the wall connector.
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A little off topic but I have a short term rental property in Siesta Key that I'd like to add a charging station in the garage. Do I go with the Tesla J1772 or a dumb charger like the Grizzl-e. The Tesla charger might be worth it for the cord storage and side mount but the Grizzl-e can be 14-50 plugged in.
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