Tesla now using deep neural net for auto wipers (2019.40)

[holmgang]

Am I correct in interpreting "simple hardware and simple software" to mean "put another sensor on"?

A sensor the size of a coin and costs almost nothing and lasts forever and has proven to work perfectly in cars over a decade old, yes.

If youre philosophically opposed to adding "another sensor on", why is there a cabin-facing camera module (=optical sensor) in the car that does absolutely nothing?

 

[mongo]

A sensor the size of a coin and costs almost nothing and lasts forever and has proven to work perfectly in cars over a decade old, yes.

For the older use case.
And it is not perfect.

If youre philosophically opposed to adding "another sensor on", why is there a cabin-facing camera module (=optical sensor) in the car that does absolutely nothing?

Because the Tesla Network use case is not yet in play. Uses include rider detection and security cam.

 

[holmgang]

For the older use case.
And it is not perfect.

But it is better than what's being used today. And it is raining today, and tomorrow, and the day after that.

Because the Tesla Network use case is not yet in play.

then let the current rain sensor learn from the wiper actuations today (be it from the "legacy" auto system, or manual override), and let it mature before putting it in play.

Just don't build the wings while you're flying the plane.

 

[Atari2600]

A sensor the size of a coin and costs almost nothing and lasts forever and has proven to work perfectly in cars over a decade old, yes.

If youre philosophically opposed to adding "another sensor on", why is there a cabin-facing camera module (=optical sensor) in the car that does absolutely nothing?

Ive had a lot of problems with dedicated rain sensors in the past. The worst problem being activation of wipers when driving under a bridge during bright sunlight when there is no rain. Typically it would be be summer and I would have smeared bugs all over my windshield due to this. I have never had this problem with the Model 3.

 

[holmgang]

Ive had a lot of problems with dedicated rain sensors in the past. The worst problem being activation of wipers when driving under a bridge during bright sunlight when there is no rain. Typically it would be be summer and I would have smeared bugs all over my windshield due to this. I have never had this problem with the Model 3.

And ive driven the Tesla under pouring rain and the auto mode wouldn't turn the wipers on.

Should your experience invalidate the chorus of people whose experience shows it doesn't work?

 

[mongo]

But it is better than what's being used today. And it is raining today, and tomorrow, and the day after that.

It is better at general rain sense, but not for what the tri camera modules needs.

then let the current rain sensor learn from the wiper actuations today (be it from the "legacy" auto system, or manual override), and let it mature before putting it in play.

Just don't build the wings while you're flying the plane.

Unlike wings, auto wiper is a feature, not a requirement. The biggest issue I see is that the 3 eliminated the wiper speed functions from its stalk before the SW was ready to pick up the slack. Would be nice if they made the press to wipe able to toggle constant/ intermittent speeds also.

 

[Atari2600]

And ive driven the Tesla under pouring rain and the auto mode wouldn't turn the wipers on.

Should your experience invalidate the chorus of people whose experience shows it doesn't work?

I did not speak of model 3 issues. I only spoke of the main issue I had with the so called “perfect” old rain sensors. And I spoke that my model 3 does not smear bugs all over my windshield when I drive under a bridge. Does your model 3 randomly activate wipers when passing under a bridge in sunlight?

 

[holmgang]

I did not speak of model 3 issues. I only spoke of the main issue I had with the so called “perfect” old rain sensors. And I spoke that my model 3 does not smear bugs all over my windshield when I drive under a bridge. Does your model 3 randomly activate wipers when passing under a bridge in sunlight?

My previous cars with auto-wipe never smeared bugs nor get triggered by bridges.

If yours did, then there is an issue with your particular vehicle. If many cars similar to yours does, then there is an issue with that car model.

Which is perfectly fine. But that does not (1) taint all other sensing systems nor (2) preclude tesla's from being sub-optimal... (evidenced by this thread alone)

 

[LA-Foal]

I still have that problem that it quite often rains in my garage according to the wipers.

 

[Atari2600]

My previous cars with auto-wipe never smeared bugs nor get triggered by bridges.

If yours did, then there is an issue with your particular vehicle. If many cars similar to yours does, then there is an issue with that car model.

Which is perfectly fine. But that does not (1) taint all other sensing systems nor (2) preclude tesla's from being sub-optimal... (evidenced by this thread alone)

I have over 23,000 miles on my 3 and i’ve only had problems in fine mist situations. Always worked fine in rain. It rains often in Ohio.

I do not use rainx or have any coatings on my windshield. All of which will cause issues.

 

[nigeldodd]

I respect both views in this debate. I suppose I did not buy a Tesla to have a conventional car. I do like the minimalism and simplicity. I gravitate towards doing more with sophisticated software and simple hardware, especially since the software can improve over time and is fed back to us with software updates, whereas hardware can't.

Going back to my mammalian visual system, we don't have separate eyes for separate things. Instead we have optically fairly poor eyes but very clever software and we can learn to identify new things as we live our lives. Tesla is not starting from scratch with every car; we don't have to train it to distinguish rain from traffic cones - it comes being able to do that. The good thing is that it will improve on how it comes when we get it through the updates.

I have one question though: we can push the button on the stalk to get it to wipe and if Tesla records this and uses it as part of the training set for the next update, it will improve. But how do we tell it not to wipe when it does wipe, so the training set is balanced?

 

[navguy12]

I respect both views in this debate. I suppose I did not buy a Tesla to have a conventional car. I do like the minimalism and simplicity. I gravitate towards doing more with sophisticated software and simple hardware, especially since the software can improve over time and is fed back to us with software updates, whereas hardware can't.

Going back to my mammalian visual system, we don't have separate eyes for separate things. Instead we have optically fairly poor eyes but very clever software and we can learn to identify new things as we live our lives. Tesla is not starting from scratch with every car; we don't have to train it to distinguish rain from traffic cones - it comes being able to do that. The good thing is that it will improve on how it comes when we get it through the updates.

I have one question though: we can push the button on the stalk to get it to wipe and if Tesla records this and uses it as part of the training set for the next update, it will improve. But how do we tell it not to wipe when it does wipe, so the training set is balanced?

Make a bug report right after it makes the unneeded wipe.

 

[banned-66611]

Ive had a lot of problems with dedicated rain sensors in the past. The worst problem being activation of wipers when driving under a bridge during bright sunlight when there is no rain.

That doesn't make a lot of sense. The rain sensor works by bouncing IR light off the rain drops, and filters out ambient IR by simply pulsing the illumination on and off and measuring both the on and off states. Any half way decent design will cope with tunnels and flickering from street lights or shadows without issue, and that's been my experience.

 

[Atari2600]

That doesn't make a lot of sense. The rain sensor works by bouncing IR light off the rain drops, and filters out ambient IR by simply pulsing the illumination on and off and measuring both the on and off states. Any half way decent design will cope with tunnels and flickering from street lights or shadows without issue, and that's been my experience.

No it does not make a lot of sense but it has been a problem with this type of system. It has not been trouble free. Perhaps they have fixed it but it is discussed here. VWVortex.com - Strange Windshield wiper behavior

“Tunnel Wipe”
The TSB at the time:

TSB 92-06-03
Customer States “Windshield Wipers Make One Intermittent Sweep Across Windshield While Driving” When the windshield wipers are set in the “Automatic” position, and when it IS NOT raining, the wipers may swipe across the windshield Once. 92 06 03 May 19, 2006, 2012048/4, Supersedes Technical Bulletin Group 92 number 06-02, dated May 18, 2006 due to updated model years. (2012048/3) The Rain/Light Recognition Sensor -G397- is light sensitive and is responsive to change in ultra violet (UV) rays. A change in light may cause the windshield wipers to do a single swipe, which is known as a “Tunnel Wipe” function. When the rain/light recognition sensor -G397- detects a light to dark transition when the rain sensor function is turned ON, one wipe cycle will be performed if the elapsed time after the previous wipe cycle is greater than 15 seconds. This communication is received via the Local Interconnect Network (LIN) data bus. The communication for the rain/light recognition sensor takes place over a LIN bus. The light sensors and rain sensors are always active when terminal 15 is ON. The Function Can Not be coded off.

And yes I owned a 2005 VW and was very upset about this.

 

[banned-66611]

No it does not make a lot of sense but it has been a problem with this type of system. It has not been trouble free. Perhaps they have fixed it but it is discussed here. VWVortex.com - Strange Windshield wiper behavior

“Tunnel Wipe”
The TSB at the time:



And yes I owned a 2005 VW and was very upset about this.

Reading that it sounds like it's a basic programming error.

 

[nigeldodd]

My old Merc did this when you turned the ignition on. It seemed a reasonable thing to do since fine dust or dew may have settled overnight. The pressure of the single wiper was very slight to it didn't tend to scrape streaks across the windscreen. I presumed it was designed to do that.

 

[Atari2600]

Reading that it sounds like it's a basic programming error.

The Function Can Not be coded off.

Suggests it is a hardware issue.

 

[MTOman]

my wipers work great, but...

"Seems it never rains in southern California
Seems I've often heard that kind of talk before
It never rains in California, but girl, don't they warn ya?"

I've heard that before. But I've also heard that when it pours, man, it pours.

 

[totteraptor]

Anyone with software v40 able to comment on whether “deep rain” is noticable better/different?

 

[snotty]

Lots of good comments here. Unfortunately, I couldn't "Like" them because I don't have enough posts. Well, now I need one less.