Cyclone
Cyclonic Member ((.oO))
My 2018 Model 3 is less than $100 every 6 months more to insure than my 2010 Lexus IS 250. YMMV.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Tesla offering insurance next month
- Thread starter zhu-
- Start date
My 2018 Model 3 is less than $100 every 6 months more to insure than my 2010 Lexus IS 250. YMMV.
when I got my first model3 10 months ago I got online quotes from about 10 insurance companies and spoke with several agents. I still ended up paying what I consider quite unreasonably high premiums for my insurance. the insurance loss data base has no data for the m3 and imho the insurance companies are merely guessing their risk without any meaningful data to back it up. it is highly likely that tesla insurance will be lower. I'm looking forward to purchasing it. in my experience tesla customer service has been great contrary to what often gets posted here.
Falkirk
Member
Was there any mention of where it would be offered? Like only in the US or would we be so lucky in Canada to get it too? I know it's already being tested in other markets.
I suspect underwriters DID catch up to the fact that all those cameras add additional expense during repairs, and that Tesla has been incapable of supplying body shops with sufficient quantity of parts to complete repairs in a timely manner.
The presence of crash video is usually worthless, as it's fairly easy to figure out who is at fault from the type of damage incurred, and the location of the accident.
I think he said Mars, then offering on other planets afterwards ...
a
Last edited:
Barklikeadog
Active Member
DWhatley
Member
If it is still going to be with Liberty Mutual, I would not touch it with a 10' pole. A Liberty Mutual insured took a left into my spouses car, shoving him into and bending the metal rails on an expressway entrance ramp. The car was totaled and what Liberty Mutual tried to do should have been illegal. Fortunately, our own insurance company took the case at our request. They were well aware of Liberty Mutual's antics and waved the deductible.
Zoro
Member
For those interested in comparing rates, I just paid a renewal of $1,111 / 6 months to State Farm to insure a Model 3LR and a Model S75. $500 deductible. Other coverage is quite a bit more than minimum TX state mandate. Our milage "limit" for this policy was 12,000 miles/yr each car. Location is Houston TX.
Be careful about the Tesla insurance. Elon had said they would know what kind of driving you do based on the data your car sends to Tesla over-the-air. So forget about those jack-rabbit starts from traffic lights! Just killed all the joy from driving a Tesla. This is similar to a module that Liberty Mutual had me install on my previous car (Lexus) for 3 months, which monitored the number of "acceleration events" and "sudden braking events". It just killed all the joy from driving and made me a bit paranoid - after getting their periodic emails on progress towards a discount on auto premiums. Ended up saving less than $90 after 3 months of tension. Not worth it!
Be careful about the Tesla insurance. Elon had said they would know what kind of driving you do based on the data your car sends to Tesla over-the-air. So forget about those jack-rabbit starts from traffic lights! Just killed all the joy from driving a Tesla. This is similar to a module that Liberty Mutual had me install on my previous car (Lexus) for 3 months, which monitored the number of "acceleration events" and "sudden braking events". It just killed all the joy from driving and made me a bit paranoid - after getting their periodic emails on progress towards a discount on auto premiums. Ended up saving less than $90 after 3 months of tension. Not worth it!
Tesla insurance? Until I know exact details, color me sceptical.
Could this be something cooked up by Tesla lawyers to cover Tesla's butt against perceived future liability risk?
"What? You didn't buy our special insurance? So sorry, you are so SOL."
And expect sudden arbitrary price changes, as always, when this product comes out...
Could this be something cooked up by Tesla lawyers to cover Tesla's butt against perceived future liability risk?
"What? You didn't buy our special insurance? So sorry, you are so SOL."
And expect sudden arbitrary price changes, as always, when this product comes out...
Seattle Tom
Member
If this were possible, insurers would already be offering lower rates for Teslas. They are very good at analyzing risk and setting prices (actuarial science is hugely interesting). Teslas are expensive to insure because they are expensive and time consuming to repair.
[rant]
I’m 99% certain that Tesla offering auto insurance is a typical Elon-ism, said with no knowledge or no research except “I did PayPal so I can do anything.”
Set aside for a moment whether Autopilot is safer than a human or having access to data could help you know how someone drives to set more equitable rates (remember insurance companies already do this via OBDII port plug-ins). The accident rate of Teslas is almost the LEAST important factor for insurance rates, though obviously it does matter somewhat. There are 50 state insurance commissioners and the laws and regulations vary across all 50 states. Those commissioners approve insurance rates in nearly all states - you don’t just get to say “I can do it better so I’m charging $100 per year.”
Second, the accident rate is somewhat unimportant because, no matter what, accidents happen. And so insurers rightly ask “how much does it cost and how long does it take to repair the vehicle?” And this is an area where even Tesla fanboys should unanimously agree - the company is abysmal at supplying parts, approving and expanding body shops, and supplying parts cheaply. It’s not unusual for a fender bender to run in the $3000 to $6000 range for repairs - that’s exotic Italian sports car territory for minor accidents. You think it costs that much to fix a Chevy, Toyota, or Subaru? Or even a Cadillac or Lexus?
THAT is why rates to insure Teslas are so high - not because insurance companies don’t understand the insurance business. The insurance company is exposed to all that cost with the body shop, the negotiation with the customer and the body shop, the customer service to update the insured, the rental cost for the insured, etc. Have you called Tesla recently? Good luck seeing that hold time improve when they are also getting insurance calls - did they add 1,000 new call center agents recently?
And third, I don’t think Elon realizes that insurance commissioners exist for another reason - to verify the capital of the insurer to confirm they are solvent for their customers. So Tesla would be opened to examination by 50 (!) state insurance commissioners and, as a general rule, the reason you didn’t hear about auto or home insurance companies blowing up during the Great Recession was because the insurance commissioners do a good job. (Well, and there are capital requirements that make mutual, and even stock, insurance companies remarkably stable. Before anyone says it, AIG was affected by their non-insurance unit, AIG Financial Products, doing securities lending...)
Tesla, which is cash-constrained right now (cash balance down from $3B to $2.1B over Q1 2019), would need to set aside capital it desperately needs for Model Y, Semi, Gigafactory 2 solar, Powerwall, Powerpack, Roadster 2.0, Supercharger installs/upgrades, and Service Center expansion. All the things they have had “coming soon” for some time will now get shuffled again with a major, pointless initiative to compete against entrenched, state-by-state competitors for a single-digit margin product.
[/rant]
[rant]
I’m 99% certain that Tesla offering auto insurance is a typical Elon-ism, said with no knowledge or no research except “I did PayPal so I can do anything.”
Set aside for a moment whether Autopilot is safer than a human or having access to data could help you know how someone drives to set more equitable rates (remember insurance companies already do this via OBDII port plug-ins). The accident rate of Teslas is almost the LEAST important factor for insurance rates, though obviously it does matter somewhat. There are 50 state insurance commissioners and the laws and regulations vary across all 50 states. Those commissioners approve insurance rates in nearly all states - you don’t just get to say “I can do it better so I’m charging $100 per year.”
Second, the accident rate is somewhat unimportant because, no matter what, accidents happen. And so insurers rightly ask “how much does it cost and how long does it take to repair the vehicle?” And this is an area where even Tesla fanboys should unanimously agree - the company is abysmal at supplying parts, approving and expanding body shops, and supplying parts cheaply. It’s not unusual for a fender bender to run in the $3000 to $6000 range for repairs - that’s exotic Italian sports car territory for minor accidents. You think it costs that much to fix a Chevy, Toyota, or Subaru? Or even a Cadillac or Lexus?
THAT is why rates to insure Teslas are so high - not because insurance companies don’t understand the insurance business. The insurance company is exposed to all that cost with the body shop, the negotiation with the customer and the body shop, the customer service to update the insured, the rental cost for the insured, etc. Have you called Tesla recently? Good luck seeing that hold time improve when they are also getting insurance calls - did they add 1,000 new call center agents recently?
And third, I don’t think Elon realizes that insurance commissioners exist for another reason - to verify the capital of the insurer to confirm they are solvent for their customers. So Tesla would be opened to examination by 50 (!) state insurance commissioners and, as a general rule, the reason you didn’t hear about auto or home insurance companies blowing up during the Great Recession was because the insurance commissioners do a good job. (Well, and there are capital requirements that make mutual, and even stock, insurance companies remarkably stable. Before anyone says it, AIG was affected by their non-insurance unit, AIG Financial Products, doing securities lending...)
Tesla, which is cash-constrained right now (cash balance down from $3B to $2.1B over Q1 2019), would need to set aside capital it desperately needs for Model Y, Semi, Gigafactory 2 solar, Powerwall, Powerpack, Roadster 2.0, Supercharger installs/upgrades, and Service Center expansion. All the things they have had “coming soon” for some time will now get shuffled again with a major, pointless initiative to compete against entrenched, state-by-state competitors for a single-digit margin product.
[/rant]
Yeah I'd be worried that rates will be based on your driving "habits". Andrej Karpathy during the Autonomy Investor Day talk (time stamp 2:15:30) said something about "we have ways of classifying the "better drivers". They'd be crazy not to incorporate that data into their insurance pricing, but I don't like it. Even though I consider myself a good driver (no accidents) my propensity for 0-60 launches likely excludes me from their "better driver" category.
A different three ways (the bundling is a non-starter for Tesla):
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/tesla-should-stick-to-selling-cars-and-not-insurance-rbc-says-2019-04-29
Tesla is using State National to front its policies. Tesla 18-5922.pdf
So far, apparently California is the only jurisdiction in which Tesla has started the process of getting approval for the policy form and rates.
My judgment and experience with my X is that Tesla's are so expensive to repair that the rates will continue to grow to the point that they are more expensive per mile than ICE cars.
Musk will have to re design so that the car can be cheaply repaired. Like sensor units easily replaced without disassemble ETC.
Tam
Well-Known Member
Tesla insurance product to be fronted by Markel's State National - Reinsurance News
"As State National provides program fronting services to this new Tesla Private Passenger Auto insurance program, it is assumed the firm will be using reinsurance to pass on the majority of the risk to other parties, as it tends to only retain minimal risks from the programs."
"As State National provides program fronting services to this new Tesla Private Passenger Auto insurance program, it is assumed the firm will be using reinsurance to pass on the majority of the risk to other parties, as it tends to only retain minimal risks from the programs."
Dragonetti
Member
I'd love to dump my current insurer - Chubb. My rate increased 24% this year. When I questioned "why," I was told it was because "Chubb had an increase in the state of Ohio, and my wife had a minor fender-bender with her ICE at a local shopping center." I originally went with Chubb because my agent told me that "they're the best in every way and don't mess around if you have a consistently good record."
This whole insurance thing could be an interesting experiment in how to price policies, since all Tesla has to do to see how we're driving is to dig into our logs. Humm, what to do. . . punish everyone who owns a particular model and/or lives in a certain neighborhood as is the current custom with most companies, or create a new fairer (OK, that particular word is difficult to find in the insurance lexicon) pricing scheme that might make it a tad more complicated, but would have the potential to reward those who deserve it & make the nasties pay their dues? On the other hand, how would we feel if we were offered a discount from the friendly Mutual of Mississippi if our logs were free game for ________(fill in)? Are we in the future yet? Or is it still 1984?
This whole insurance thing could be an interesting experiment in how to price policies, since all Tesla has to do to see how we're driving is to dig into our logs. Humm, what to do. . . punish everyone who owns a particular model and/or lives in a certain neighborhood as is the current custom with most companies, or create a new fairer (OK, that particular word is difficult to find in the insurance lexicon) pricing scheme that might make it a tad more complicated, but would have the potential to reward those who deserve it & make the nasties pay their dues? On the other hand, how would we feel if we were offered a discount from the friendly Mutual of Mississippi if our logs were free game for ________(fill in)? Are we in the future yet? Or is it still 1984?
Silicon Desert
Well-Known Member
Interesting. I am not sure I would use it as my insurance is already a great rate. I'd also lose the bundling discount with home and liability.
Similar threads
