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Tesla on NBC Dateline

Discussion in 'News' started by efusco, May 10, 2009.

  1. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

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  2. chimpanzee

    chimpanzee Member

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    #2 chimpanzee, May 10, 2009
    Last edited: May 10, 2009
  3. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    #3 TEG, May 10, 2009
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  4. Tdave

    Tdave Member

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    Great story.

    The only negative was when they said that the loan money Tesla is waiting for is "$450 million of the same tax payer money that's been flowing to Wall Street and Detroit."

    No. It's. Not!
     
  5. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Super sloppy work on the Transcript.
     
  6. bobw

    bobw Tesla Reader

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    Sorry, but yes it is. Money is a fungible comodity. It all comes out of the same pockets. Don't let the smoke and mirrors fool you.
     
  7. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    #7 vfx, May 11, 2009
    Last edited: May 11, 2009
    Be sure to click on the Sidebar video:
    Supercharged
    Take a fast ride of the all-electric Tesla Roadster with Jim Seida, a msnbc.com media editor and auto enthusiast.

    I don't think this link works:
    msnbc.com Video Player
     
  8. Tdave

    Tdave Member

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    I understand your point, but... The statement was entirely misleading, as ridiculous as saying that those social security payments to seniors is coming from the same tax payer money that's been flowing to Wall Street and Detroit.

    The very strong implication, which has been stated more explicitly by other journalists, is that it's money appropriated as part of a financial industry bailout or auto industry rescue. While tax payer money may be fungible, as you say, the appropriation of that money is not.
     
  9. Arnold Panz

    Arnold Panz Model Sig 304, VIN 542

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    I couldn't agree more. The money Tesla is waiting for is an investment by the government to provide low interest loans to companies using innovation with alternative energy sources to make different kinds of cars. Very different than a "bailout" of failing companies, or providing TARP money so the economic system doesn't collapse. People should not be led to think this is a traunch from the same money -- it was a different bill/law passed well before the economic collapse last fall.
     
  10. ChrisC

    ChrisC see signature

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    What I heard in the piece sounded like "over 900" to me so it's not that far off at all. Unless they redubbed the report for online.

    I test drove a Roadster last month during a visit to the Bay area and told everyone about it when I got back home. So today the secretary lady tells me that she saw the Tesla on TV last night, and that's how I found out about this :) Normally I would go nowhere near Dateline ... it's kind of slimy and certainly not journalism. But I'm happy to see the Tesla puff piece!
     
  11. bobw

    bobw Tesla Reader

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    Man, I wish I could believe that was sarcasm.

    It is the same money. The social security trust fund is a fiction. It buys treasury securities. The government has been spending your social security payroll taxes and stacking up IOUs. The interest on the national debt has reached almost 11% of the national "budget".

    This is really off topic, but it's important.

    I started a really snippy post yesterday. Instead I leave you with this:

    GR2009032100104.gif

    Historically, the Congressional Budget Office has made better predictions.

    Sweet dreams.
     
  12. Palpatine

    Palpatine Banned

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    The money Tesla is going after is a loan which Tesla has to repay.
    Other government spending is just an expenditure that is not repaid.

    The TARP money is just a loan that has to be repaid. Some banks have already paid the money back to the government with interest. Others (Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan Chase) have indicated they will pay back the TARP money this year to get away from the US gov't restrictions.

    So I think there is actually a different between these loans versus regular government deficit spending.
     
  13. Tdave

    Tdave Member

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    bobw, I'm sorry I hit a nerve. You're angry at our gov't irresponsible spending. I am too.

    But I'm also frustrated at the media tweaking that public nerve whenever it talks about any gov't spending or loan program. It draws a parallel that frequently just doesn't exist, is completely unwarranted, and entirely irresponsible.
     
  14. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Bob and at the same time I believe in playing their game to get the result we want. (EVs).
     
  15. Arnold Panz

    Arnold Panz Model Sig 304, VIN 542

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    I think the point is that, of course all spending by the government, whether a loan or not, comes from the same pot of money (Social Security included). The misleading part of the Dateline NBC assertion, in my estimation, was that it made it sound like the money was from the same "pot" allocated by Congress as part of either TARP (for the banks) or the auto bailout (for GM and Chrysler).

    The money Tesla is seeking is from a bill passed in 2007 called the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007 ("EISA"). A part of EISA is the Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing Loan Program, which will distribute up to $25 billion in direct loans to automakers and component manufacturers. "The loans will help those manufacturers establish new U.S. manufacturing facilities or re-equip or expand existing ones within the United States for the production of advanced technology vehicles and the components for such vehicles."

    As Elon has pointed out in numerous interviews, Tesla is seeking a loan of 1.5% of this money. This allocation was made by Congress long before our economy fell into free-fall last fall, and has nothing to do with the money allocated for zombie banks, unprofitable automakers, or anything else associated with our recent economic problems.

    Elon also made a good point in the piece, which is that they could do this with private money, but because the capital markets are so frozen, it will delay production for a couple of years until the markets unfreeze. Assuming one believes that EVs are good for our long-term future (environment, security etc.), this is as good a use of government money as I can think of, especially because it is to be paid back, with interest.
     
  16. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    I think we'd all agree that in an ideal world no government money would have to be spent to get a good idea off the ground and a new industry established. Nobody likes spending tax payers' money for the sake of it - but the reality is that in many fields government seed money is needed to get companies started, particularly when the commercial and regulatory old guard are entrenched against them and particularly when the new industry needs to get big, quickly. Even more so in today's climate.

    The alternative is Tesla wait until the markets recover, by which time the competition will have regrouped.
     
  17. graham

    graham Active Member

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    And the competition will have regrouped partly by taking massive amounts of government money. If Tesla ends up without a government backed loan, it will be trying to compete in a market where every other manufacturer is receiving government funding.
     

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