Jason71
Well-Known Member
So you rock up at a services in an ID3 on 10% with 2 Gridserve ( both in use) and 12 Superchargers (6 in use). What would you do? What would most people do?
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Tesla open up the SuC network [in UK]
- Thread starter kelvin 660
- Start date
Yep, that'll help with some situations, not all.
My cynicism is... They could already try this at some sites, that's the point of a trial surely. It's not like they are short of money.
For a trial, you try something, learn, change something, try again. It's more a cautious rollout than a trial.
TBH if there are two empty bays next to each other then they can fill their boots. However if the SuC is busy it's going to be pretty hard to queue for multiple bays, or to sit not charging in an empty bay hoping that the car next to you leaves and Will Smith isn't in a Tesla next in line.
It will be significantly awkward, not saying it will never happen but I really can't see ID3 users are going to seek out that kind of experience.
Just my observations on the vast number of superchargers available in the Netherlands. I've used this one near Arnhem in the East of the country, before the network was opened up.
23 stalls. First visit 10.30am on a Tuesday morning, 3 stalls occupied. Second visit 12.30pm on a Monday afternoon, 5 stalls occupied.
Appreciate its a very small sample but seems like a waste not to open up sites to other EVs if the normal utilisation is so low.
23 stalls. First visit 10.30am on a Tuesday morning, 3 stalls occupied. Second visit 12.30pm on a Monday afternoon, 5 stalls occupied.
Appreciate its a very small sample but seems like a waste not to open up sites to other EVs if the normal utilisation is so low.
And here in the U.K., I visited 3 over the last few days and all of them were over 50% utilisation. All of them automatically set the charge limit at 80% due to being classed as high utilisation sites, one site it took a few mins to get on a charger because it was ‘full’ on arrival (1 bay had a Mach-E parked in it with the owner not with the car… 
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Jason71
Well-Known Member
You are making the assumption that the majority of cars using it will be Teslas / other cars that charge on the left. If its full of ID3s it could be YOU queuing for 2 bays to be free.
Would you not pull into one of the empty bays and wait for the person using the charger to finish even if you are blocking that bay for another ID3 driver? some will...
There are so many more Tesla's on the UK roads than any other car, the majority of cars at SuperChargers will be Tesla's.
This would only possibly be the case if there are 2 x ID3's with a gap between, not that common but yes I would, my car is set up to use the chargers as they are meant to be used. I don't need to facilitate people that don't properly fit.
Jason71
Well-Known Member
As I am sure you appreciate I was playing devils advocate but are you so sure I am wrong?
I am sure more model 3's have been sold in the UK than any other EV But there are not more Teslas than all other EV's combined even if it feels like it sometimes. The ID3, Niro and Leaf combined sold about the same as the M3 last year. M3 sold 34,000 units last year and S and X would have been pretty low. Total BEV sales were 190,000 so Tesla do not even have a 25% market share of EV's as far as I can tell. Don't get me wrong their market share is impressive given the price etc but in the context of your statement not good enough.
They are maybe more likely to be taken on long journeys that need charging stops but also need less of those stops and charge faster than most.
So given all that if the SuC opened up would the majority of cars using them be Teslas? or would we see rows of E-niros and Konas charging for an hour at 50kw? both of which have the charge port on the front but off centre to the left so may reach if parked in the "correct" space but left to their own devices are likely to chose the wrong side since its closer. Especially if a few ID3's have already rocked up.
Leaf isn't a good example, given it's Chademo so will never charge at a SuperCharger.
Why would it be 'given' that all SuC opened up? It's entirely not given at all and the opposite of France and Norway. Is rows of incorrectly charging Eniro's what what anyone sees in France, Norway or the Netherlands? no not at all.
According to How Many Left, there are 53K Tesla Model 3 licensed in 2021, 16K eNiro, 9K Kona 11K ID4 2.5K ID4. Tesla are easily a majority, heck even at non SuperChargers today its often a majority of Tesla.
According to the smmt 190,727 BEVs were registered in the UK in 2021. There were 34,783 M3s registered, which is about 18% of the total. Sales of S and X were low. While they are the biggest individual seller Tesla are in a clear minority when it comes to total sales.
Yes, that’s exactly what I’m looking at because I’m looking at the trend. Tesla will sell even more cars in the UK now with the introduction of the Y, but all the other manufacturers will also sell lots more cars. That will have implications for opening up the SuC network, though the wildly differing comments on this thread shows no one as yet has any realistic idea of what those implications will be. We need hard facts, not idle speculation.
I've had a few discussions with people recently about to buy their first non-Tesla EV who think that Tesla Superchargers are already a free-for-all. I get the distinct impression car sales people are telling them this, along with click-bait internet browsing. I feel there are going to be some big disappointments in the near future!
Anyway, presuming it all goes ahead (and I think it will sooner or later) then for the first time ever I would consider buying a non-Tesla EV. Not because I'm pissed at Tesla. It's more the case that it potentially makes other brands of EV viable for us. But only if the non-Tesla charging process is as reliable and fuss free as it is for a Tesla. I expect one of the reasons why Tesla charging is so reliable is because it's a closed eco-system, so the charger doesn't have to deal with multiple brands of EV and all their idiosyncrasies. So would the charging experience with a non-Tesla EV be quite as seamless as it is with a Tesla? That's what I would be wanting to confirm before committing to another brand of EV.
Anyway, presuming it all goes ahead (and I think it will sooner or later) then for the first time ever I would consider buying a non-Tesla EV. Not because I'm pissed at Tesla. It's more the case that it potentially makes other brands of EV viable for us. But only if the non-Tesla charging process is as reliable and fuss free as it is for a Tesla. I expect one of the reasons why Tesla charging is so reliable is because it's a closed eco-system, so the charger doesn't have to deal with multiple brands of EV and all their idiosyncrasies. So would the charging experience with a non-Tesla EV be quite as seamless as it is with a Tesla? That's what I would be wanting to confirm before committing to another brand of EV.
Wol747
Active Member
I've never had any problem here in Australia waiting for a charger space like I see in videos from the UK. Just not that many Teslas here yet.
It does seem to me that charging sites should have a single entrance - rather like those lines' barriers at airport check-ins - so that everyone lines in order of arrival and #1 gets the first charger to be free and everyone moves up by one.
OK, takes more space, but stops cars shuffling back and forth and "charger rage" I would guess!
It does seem to me that charging sites should have a single entrance - rather like those lines' barriers at airport check-ins - so that everyone lines in order of arrival and #1 gets the first charger to be free and everyone moves up by one.
OK, takes more space, but stops cars shuffling back and forth and "charger rage" I would guess!
Indeed this is all speculation and there are many choices. Firstly Tesla sell/used to sell a Chademo adapter for their cars so presumably reverse of that option could be marketed for the Leaf.
Secondly there is evidence that Tesla wish to become a major energy company. The limiting factors on more superchargers are sites and power supplies. If Gov mandated that Electric infrastructure had to provide power at a sane cost to any site wanting it and mandated a priority right for planning then Tesla are ideally placed to expand their charger numbers and build more sites. They could throw in their megabatteries to make such more practicable. Any loss of Tesla car sales would be nothing compared to the potential value of a Global position as the number 1 EV charger brand. We already see Gigafactories with roofs covered in solar panels - easy enough for Tesla to go into that market providing the same modernisation to any factories or leasing their rooftops.
Whatever happens on the charging front is a tad academic. Those manufacturers making ICE are not going to stop making them while they sell but as the deadlines for EV/H2 only approach those same companies are suddenly going to spew out rival options in big numbers (chip shortage permitting). If all the problems of home charging for folk without driveways etc persist, then Gov will just delay the cut-off date.
Gov is rarely rational and tied to traditions of job creation and manufacturing and consumer spending. It would be so much more sensible to create a properly practical public transport system - regular extended tram and trolley bus networks and recreate the pre-Beeching network and make public transport 'free' (it's all where you move tax monies about) and cut private car ownership - go to a model of taxis and rental.
Secondly there is evidence that Tesla wish to become a major energy company. The limiting factors on more superchargers are sites and power supplies. If Gov mandated that Electric infrastructure had to provide power at a sane cost to any site wanting it and mandated a priority right for planning then Tesla are ideally placed to expand their charger numbers and build more sites. They could throw in their megabatteries to make such more practicable. Any loss of Tesla car sales would be nothing compared to the potential value of a Global position as the number 1 EV charger brand. We already see Gigafactories with roofs covered in solar panels - easy enough for Tesla to go into that market providing the same modernisation to any factories or leasing their rooftops.
Whatever happens on the charging front is a tad academic. Those manufacturers making ICE are not going to stop making them while they sell but as the deadlines for EV/H2 only approach those same companies are suddenly going to spew out rival options in big numbers (chip shortage permitting). If all the problems of home charging for folk without driveways etc persist, then Gov will just delay the cut-off date.
Gov is rarely rational and tied to traditions of job creation and manufacturing and consumer spending. It would be so much more sensible to create a properly practical public transport system - regular extended tram and trolley bus networks and recreate the pre-Beeching network and make public transport 'free' (it's all where you move tax monies about) and cut private car ownership - go to a model of taxis and rental.
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