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Tesla or 14-50

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by jmccrack, May 22, 2015.

  1. jmccrack

    jmccrack Member

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    I was wondering. I am installing a 14-50 plug in my garage. I was wondering how many of you have installed the Tesla plug instead. It would make sence to have the cord in your car with you all the time but most charges have a cord. Unless you are travelling a lot in the outback
     
  2. mibaro2

    mibaro2 Member

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    I have a 14-50 installed in my garage. Charging at 40amps is fast enough for me overnight.
    That said, when I was looking at HPWC, they were $1200. They have come down a lot in price.

    If I did it again now, I would get the HPWC for the better look, longer cord, and more durable cord. (Even with the HPWC, I could lower the charging rate to 40amps if I wanted).

    If you are putting in a 14-50 plug, use the specs for the HPWC wire gauge so that if you change your mind, you don't have to install the wire again.
     
  3. Stoneymonster

    Stoneymonster Active Member

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    The 14-50 is fine 95% of the time. If we take a long trip we throw the UMC in the trunk, but outside of that it stays plugged into the wall.
     
  4. linkster

    linkster Member

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    #4 linkster, May 22, 2015
    Last edited: May 22, 2015
    Charge nightly with a UMC on a 14-30 (50K miles) that is permanently docked
    Keep a 50' UMC in the car
    Installed a bulky (to me) HPWC for PlugShare guests
     
  5. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    I have the 14-50. No issues.
     
  6. SFOTurtle

    SFOTurtle Active Member

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    Ditto (although for me it's 99.9% of the time -- only once in two years would I wanted or needed HPWC to charge at 80A) and ditto.
     
  7. Stoneymonster

    Stoneymonster Active Member

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    Right I should revise that upwards. :)
     
  8. gavine

    gavine Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast

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    If you planned on buying an extra UMC anyway so that you can keep one permanently in the car, then it makes sense to buy the HPWC instead, especially now that they are similarly priced to the UMC. This way you get a better charger (even if 40A) for the permanent mount in the garage and still have a UMC with you. In most cases, public charging will be done with a J1772 or an HPWC, however there might be times when you'll need the UMC, just likely not as often. Tesla stores are a good place to have your UMC because they typically have a couple of HPWC's but more 14-50 outlets.
     
  9. chriSharek

    chriSharek Member

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    I'm ordering the HPWC tomorrow for $750 and I already have installed the wiring. The UMC is for MOBILE use - keep it in the trunk and use for when you're not home.

    I've had an "HPWC" for my Volt for 4 years now. Works flawlessly. That way I can keep the 120 volt EVSE in my trunk for trips. Much cleaner.

    - - - Updated - - -

    ^Good Post
     
  10. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

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    I went with the HPWC for two reasons.

    The first reason is I felt it looked nicer, and was simpler.

    The second reason and the REAL reason is because I'm an idiot, and so I have to idiot proof things for myself. Having the HPWC means I can put the Mobile charger in my car so I won't forget it.
     
  11. Cottonwood

    Cottonwood Roadster#433, Model S#S37

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    Another advantage of the HPWC is if you want to charge as quickly as possible, but don't have enough power to run a 50 Amp circuit and a 14-50.

    The HPWC can be set for 100, 80, 50, 40, 30, 20, and 15 Amp circuit breakers, for 80, 64, 40, 32, 24, 16, and 12 Amp charging. That gives a lot of flexibility in charging power and wire size without having to use adapters and worry about the charge setting in the car being forgotten with some upgrade, etc. Set the DIP switches and the pilot signal will make sure the car does not more than the current available.

    For example, there are few places that can't handle an extra 30 or 20 Amp circuit at 240 Volts. The 17 or 11 mph charging that you can get from such installations is way better than the 3 mph that you can get from a regular 120-Volt, 3-prong plug. With some care, this is probably fast enough charging for most users. If Tesla made 6-30 and 6-20 adapters, you could use the UMC, but lacking those, the HPWC is a good, clean solution.
     
  12. KurtR

    KurtR Member

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    As long as you don't need 100 amp service, do both. Have the electrician install a 14-50 and then jerry-rig a plug on the end of the HPWC to plug into the 14-50. This serves two purposes. First, if you move you can bring the HPWC with you just by unplugging it. More importantly, if the HPWC breaks you still have the outlet that you can plug into while getting repairs or a replacement HPWC. I've got this setup and it works perfectly.
     
  13. MSEV

    MSEV Member

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    I have the 14-50 in my garage. I do not have the dual chargers in the car. Except for road trips, I don't need the UMC in the car, so it hangs on the wall for charging at night. I can always fully charge at night. An HPWC would be nice, but I don't need it at all. You might want it or like the look.
     
  14. smsprague

    smsprague Member

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    That's what I did also
     
  15. wk057

    wk057 Senior Tinkerer

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    #15 wk057, May 23, 2015
    Last edited: May 23, 2015


    Ugh.

    I'll point out for the umpteenth time on this forum that this is a code violation in the USA (probably so in Canada as well, but not 100% sure on that one since I don't do electrical work there...).

    The HPWC must be hard wired as it is not listed as a plug-and-cord device. The UMC is listed as a plug-and-cord device and it appropriately has the GFCI the correct distance from the plug.

    ---


    To the OP, I would suggest the Tesla HPWC, personally. You'll rarely find any use case for a 14-50 other than the UMC, and keeping the UMC for lighter duty (stored for travel) while having a better looking solution for charging, even if you don't need 80A charging (set it lower if need be) just seems to work out better overall. You always have charging in the garage, and you always have your UMC.

    If the HPWC were still $1500-ish, I may be suggesting the 14-50... but since it's only $700 now for a potentially 80A EVSE, where 30A J1772 EVSEs are still pretty close to that price, it's kind of a no brainer to me. Just please hard wire it like it was made for. If you're running it on a 50A circuit like a 14-50 it would be easy to feed the wiring from the back of the unit too and make it look even nicer.
     
  16. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    #16 FlasherZ, May 23, 2015
    Last edited: May 23, 2015
    Does your UMC bear a listing mark? The UL database only shows the HPWC (FFWA.E351001) and the J1772 adapter (FFVI2.E353200). Mine isn't listed, which makes me assume that Tesla calls it part of the car. :)

    UL 2594 (standard under which the HPWC is listed) permits cord-and-plug connected sets. Because the HPWC is shipped with terminal blocks and not a power cord, the HPWC listing doesn't include the power supply conductors and therefore is not violated when cord-and-plug is connected to it. As long as article 625 is satisfied (12 in. maximum cord length) along with all other wiring methods (proper cable clamps, etc.), then you can use the HPWC with a cord and plug set (bonus is that it qualifies as a disconnect if you can lock it :) ).

    It's going to be pretty tough with a cord that big to satisfy the 12" maximum length on the cable.

    I have not found any instruction which requires it to be hard-wired, which would trigger the 110.3 manufacturer's instruction clause.
     
  17. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    When the price dropped on the HPWC it became too cheap to pass up.
    I like the longer, more durable cord and clean attractive install.
    Another benefit is that I can fully pack the car ( including the UMC ) the night before a trip, and then just unplug and go in the morning.

    I often set the amperage to 48 instead of 40 just to be sure I am exercising both chargers.
     
  18. KurtR

    KurtR Member

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    I'm having a hard time buying that. As I understand it, the U.S. has a National Electrical Code that may or may not be adopted by a state, so I'm not sure that you can generalize to what is or is not a code violation in the U.S. Also, even if a person's state adopts the NEC, the code would only govern the installation of the NEMA 14-50 outlet in this circumstance. As long as that outlet complies with the code, what gets plugged into it should not matter. I can't imagine that the drafters of an electrical code would waste their time on an unenforceable provision stating that only specified items on a list could be plugged into a receptacle. If I want to build a homemade industrial-strength compressor in my garage and plug it into a NEMA 14-50, that's my business. If I want to have a HPWC that I purchased modified to have a plug on the end of it, and plug that into a 14-50, that also is my business, and if I sell the house and disconnect the HPWC to take with me, how is the house not up to code when the buyer inspects it?
     
  19. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    The NEC has jurisdiction over several types of electrical appliances in addition to infrastructure wiring. For example, welders are covered by the NEC. EVSE is also covered by article 625 - the NEC doesn't see EVSE (UMC and HPWC) as an appliance, but rather a piece of electrical infrastructure equipment.

    In some ways I agree with you that it would be extremely difficult to find someone who would enforce the provisions here. In many cases, it may not be the code enforcement officers that deal with it, but rather your insurance company and fire investigators should something happen.
     
  20. chriSharek

    chriSharek Member

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    More good reasons ^^^ to get the HPWC!
     

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