TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Tesla P85 or 2013 Civic SI with forced induction?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Daniel R. Lucas, Aug 12, 2014.

  1. Daniel R. Lucas

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2014
    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Baltimore
    I'm debating in my mind which way to go:
    A) keep my existing 2013 Civic SI but put about $10k into upgrades (turbocharger
    B) put the money for the upgrades toward a P85 and sell my Civic SI

    Civic SI Pros:
    - low cost of ownership
    - no big loan for a Tesla
    - can do quarter mile in 11.8 (vs 12.4 for P85) after upgrades
    - manual transmission is fun
    - more nimble than a large Model S

    Cons:
    - gasoline costs $230+/month
    - manual transmission is annoying when feeling tired/lazy
    - Worse in snow than Model S
    - Not luxurious
    - loud, especially after upgrades
    - may catch the eye/ear of cops much more quickly
    - modifications will void warranties
    - will probably not recover money spent on modifications
    - worse for the environment
    - Using a turbocharged/supercharged car as a daily driver could cause reliability issues
    - hassle of purchasing/installing aftermarket parts
    - maintenance, especially for aftermarket parts, is annoying and costly
    - may not last as many miles as a Tesla

    P85 Pros:
    - Effortless acceleration
    - It's cool, new technology
    - save on 'fuel'
    - large, practical
    - less maintenance
    - saves time
    - better for the environment
    - very reliable
    - SAFE
    - should last a long time

    Cons:
    - lots of debt
    - large car: bad for parking, not as good around corners due to weight/size
    - decreases monthly cashflow

    Well, it looks like the Tesla is winning the pros/cons battle. What do you all think? Am I crazy to even consider keeping my current car? :)
     
  2. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,793
    Location:
    Skaneateles, NY
    I don't think you're going to find many advocates for keeping your current car here...I have 54k very happy miles on my P85 now and between gas savings and ezpass toll savings I'm upwards of $15k-$16k savings in 18 months ownership. That's not even including the $7500 fed rebate nor the ~$7k in sales tax I didn't have to pay (NJ).
     
  3. Mr X

    Mr X Future Owner

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2013
    Messages:
    855
    Location:
    Simi Valley, CA
    Turbochargers in 2014? xlpgm0q.png


    Its all about Superchargers now.


    And dont know how a civic vs a tesla is even a decision, if you can afford the Tesla get it.
     
  4. Zextraterrestrial

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    Messages:
    3,636
    Location:
    Humboldt/Los Altos
    I get pretty close to a 2012 Civic Si in our local Autocross w/ my S
    not sure how different the newer cars are?
    the Civic driver has been racing for quite some time too and runs racing rubber and trailers his car. now that I have 285 rear and 255 front PSS' I think I will 'kill him' this weekend. feels a bit better than the Re-11 275/245 set that I had


    good list of pros and cons BTW
    forgot - sound
    and no gas stations for pros (saves time covers part of it, bad vapors too)
     
  5. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    4,502
    Location:
    Maine
    A couple of alternatives:
    1) Keep the Civic Si until 2017 and then get a Model 3.
    2) Assuming you can have two cars, get another plug-in like the Volt, Leaf or Spark EV (you'd have to ship from CA) as a "different kind of fun" car and then swap when the Model 3 comes out. That way you can get used to the plug-in paradigm and save wear on your Si at the same time.
     
  6. Daniel R. Lucas

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2014
    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Baltimore
    I could supercharge and am on the line between which one to do. I don't believe a supercharged Civic SI will be as fast as a turbocharged Civic, however.

    Just because I can afford something doesn't mean I should put the money into it. Most of my coworkers could afford a Tesla but they choose not to buy one.

    I doubt there is a significant difference in speed (after a forced induction system) between the 9th gen Civic and the 8th gen.

    I could upgrade the sound on the Civic SI with aftermarket speakers that would probably be on par with the Tesla. The fact that it's louder with the exhaust and engine does have an impact on sound quality, though.

    #1 is exactly what my plan would be should I keep the Civic SI. However, what's the point in having a fun car if I can't drive it on a daily basis? I've considered the Volt/Leaf/Spark but as an enthusiast driver, I wouldn't buy one.
     
  7. Zextraterrestrial

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    Messages:
    3,636
    Location:
    Humboldt/Los Altos
    Mr X meant supercharger as in 'Tesla Supercharger'


    driving the S as a fun car puts miles on it really fast + runs through tires like crazy - but it is oh so fun


    If you really can afford it (not sure I can? I make ~ cost of car/ yr) no brainer!
    kind of a life changing event/thing
     
  8. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2012
    Messages:
    4,279
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Don't blow your Civic. Just keep it as is.

    Keep your cash.

    Buy a Model S when the Civic takes a crap.
     
  9. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2013
    Messages:
    4,705
    Location:
    Buckeye, AZ
    Did someone mention Civic and Tesla in the same sentence? Yikes!
     
  10. tga

    tga Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2014
    Messages:
    2,214
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    Not really, if you don't dress it up with "all show/no go", "Fast and Furious" appearance upgrades.

    Debatable - building a car does have some environmental impact. Is burning gas in the Civic worse than building a Model S? Don't know...
     
  11. Denarius

    Denarius Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2013
    Messages:
    1,349
    Location:
    Utah
    I assumed Zextraterrestrial just meant noise levels of the car in general. My previous car was an Evo with a turbo back exhaust. I had a hard time holding a conversation with someone in the rear seats. After driving the Model S I could never go back.

    Buying the Model S tied up a lot of my "play" money, but it was worth it. It just comes down to what you enjoy more. Driving an amazing machine every day, or having more money to spend on other toys.
     
  12. Gear

    Gear Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2013
    Messages:
    594
    Location:
    SoCal
    Yes, actually. Not debatable at all.
     
  13. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Messages:
    12,762
    Location:
    Texas
    Although the car is big when you look at the dimensions, I've found that it drives (e.g. is nimble) and parks better than most smaller cars. I was concerned about this too as it's been many years since I drove a full size car. It turned out to be a non-issue.
     
  14. invisik

    invisik Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2014
    Messages:
    620
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    +1


    They are on two different planets. I think you need to think more about what type of car you want.

    -m
     
  15. gaswalla

    gaswalla P4201/85/airsusp/pano/19i

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    1,201
    Location:
    San Diego
    Would be interesting to see the responses on a Honda forum
     
  16. tga

    tga Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2014
    Messages:
    2,214
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    #16 tga, Aug 12, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2014
    That's a pretty stong assertion. :smile: Proof? (Especially since we have no idea what the OP's annual milage is...)

    EDIT: Too be clear, I was comparing driving an existing ICE to building a new EV, not X miles on one vs the other (that answer is clear).
     
  17. trigga71

    trigga71 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2013
    Messages:
    200
    Location:
    SC
    Its very hard to compare these. Both of these cars were built with very different goals in mind. Even the Civic with turbo won't compare to the Model S. If its cheaper formance your looking for go with a older Vette, STi, Evo or even better GTR or Atom or a classic like the Grand National or a Tesla cousin the Elise. I can think of a million cheaper nice cars that will hand a civic its own doors. The imports are fun don't get me wrong, but once I had a other cars I saw that even with tons of work it won't as reliable or resellable. Motor swap and boots all you want but it won't happen because they can boost as well and your back a square one. If I were you I'd look at the list above and take your pick unless you want to wait till 2017 and even then it might not have the preformance your looking for.
     
  18. G-F

    G-F Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2014
    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Canada
    A 11,8sec Civic is gonna need a LOT of modifications.

    And even then the reliability will be crap. Did you have a heavily modified car in the past? You might be up for a big surprise! Everything that can break, will.
     
  19. ThosEM

    ThosEM Space Weatherman

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2013
    Messages:
    612
    Location:
    Annapolis, MD
    Sounds like you really should look for a used Roadster...
     
  20. Daniel R. Lucas

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2014
    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Baltimore
    Owning an EV is a pretty life changing event--especially if it's a Tesla. I'm not sure that deciding to spend $100k on a car is a no brainer decision, though :)

    My Civic has 14,000 miles, and I drive about 16,000 miles/year. Unfortunately, I don't want to wait 8 years for it to die on me before I move on! Even three years feels like an eternity for me to wait.

    Yes; yes I did :D

    That's definitely a consideration. I don't like loud cars. There's always the opportunity cost of money, as you alluded to in your post. I generally like to invest on the front end so I can have anything I want on the back end. I'm probably at the point where one year from now, I can own a Tesla without it impacting my financial future too significantly. I'll have three cashflowing properties and no (bad) debt with a six figure job... and no kids.

    I hope my experience follows your own. I've driven a Ford Crown Victoria, Honda Fit (first car), and Civic SI; smaller cars are much less stressful in parking lots and the city. I do like the Tesla's ability to carry a lot of people/stuff, though.

    Well, I've given it considerable thought over the last couple years. The Civic SI was purchased as an intermediary car--something fun while I invest and focus on my career. I snowboard, bike, etc and must have 4 seats/4 doors with a folding down rear seat. That eliminates a lot of competition... My top cars are the BMW 335i and the Tesla Model S. If the Tesla didn't exist, I would own a BMW.

    The vette is too impractical for me. The STi & Evo are ugly, noisy and uncomfortable. The GTR, Atom and other supercars are too impractical and a waste of money IMO. That leaves the Tesla as a unique vehicle that meets most of my criteria. I also love the company and CEO.

    That's what I fear and why I'm leaning against the Civic upgrades.

    I've strongly considered the Roadster, but...
    1. It's a 2 seater
    2. I'm concerned about long term reliability. I want to drive it as my only car, and I'm not sure that Tesla's prototype car could do 100,000 miles.
    3. It can't supercharge
    4. Why not buy a Model S for the same money? It's the better value right now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I agree; see responses on the 9thgencivic forum
     

Share This Page