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Tesla P85 or 2013 Civic SI with forced induction?

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I'm debating in my mind which way to go:
A) keep my existing 2013 Civic SI but put about $10k into upgrades (turbocharger
B) put the money for the upgrades toward a P85 and sell my Civic SI

Civic SI Pros:
- low cost of ownership
- no big loan for a Tesla
- can do quarter mile in 11.8 (vs 12.4 for P85) after upgrades
- manual transmission is fun
- more nimble than a large Model S

Cons:
- gasoline costs $230+/month
- manual transmission is annoying when feeling tired/lazy
- Worse in snow than Model S
- Not luxurious
- loud, especially after upgrades
- may catch the eye/ear of cops much more quickly
- modifications will void warranties
- will probably not recover money spent on modifications
- worse for the environment
- Using a turbocharged/supercharged car as a daily driver could cause reliability issues
- hassle of purchasing/installing aftermarket parts
- maintenance, especially for aftermarket parts, is annoying and costly
- may not last as many miles as a Tesla

P85 Pros:
- Effortless acceleration
- It's cool, new technology
- save on 'fuel'
- large, practical
- less maintenance
- saves time
- better for the environment
- very reliable
- SAFE
- should last a long time

Cons:
- lots of debt
- large car: bad for parking, not as good around corners due to weight/size
- decreases monthly cashflow

Well, it looks like the Tesla is winning the pros/cons battle. What do you all think? Am I crazy to even consider keeping my current car? :)
 
I don't think you're going to find many advocates for keeping your current car here...I have 54k very happy miles on my P85 now and between gas savings and ezpass toll savings I'm upwards of $15k-$16k savings in 18 months ownership. That's not even including the $7500 fed rebate nor the ~$7k in sales tax I didn't have to pay (NJ).
 
Turbochargers in 2014?
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Its all about Superchargers now.


And dont know how a civic vs a tesla is even a decision, if you can afford the Tesla get it.
 
I get pretty close to a 2012 Civic Si in our local Autocross w/ my S
not sure how different the newer cars are?
the Civic driver has been racing for quite some time too and runs racing rubber and trailers his car. now that I have 285 rear and 255 front PSS' I think I will 'kill him' this weekend. feels a bit better than the Re-11 275/245 set that I had


good list of pros and cons BTW
forgot - sound
and no gas stations for pros (saves time covers part of it, bad vapors too)
 
A couple of alternatives:
1) Keep the Civic Si until 2017 and then get a Model 3.
2) Assuming you can have two cars, get another plug-in like the Volt, Leaf or Spark EV (you'd have to ship from CA) as a "different kind of fun" car and then swap when the Model 3 comes out. That way you can get used to the plug-in paradigm and save wear on your Si at the same time.
 
Turbochargers in 2014?

Its all about Superchargers now.

And dont know how a civic vs a tesla is even a decision, if you can afford the Tesla get it.
I could supercharge and am on the line between which one to do. I don't believe a supercharged Civic SI will be as fast as a turbocharged Civic, however.

Just because I can afford something doesn't mean I should put the money into it. Most of my coworkers could afford a Tesla but they choose not to buy one.

I get pretty close to a 2012 Civic Si in our local Autocross w/ my S
not sure how different the newer cars are?
the Civic driver has been racing for quite some time too and runs racing rubber and trailers his car. now that I have 285 rear and 255 front PSS' I think I will 'kill him' this weekend. feels a bit better than the Re-11 275/245 set that I had


good list of pros and cons BTW
forgot - sound
and no gas stations for pros (saves time covers part of it, bad vapors too)
I doubt there is a significant difference in speed (after a forced induction system) between the 9th gen Civic and the 8th gen.

I could upgrade the sound on the Civic SI with aftermarket speakers that would probably be on par with the Tesla. The fact that it's louder with the exhaust and engine does have an impact on sound quality, though.

A couple of alternatives:
1) Keep the Civic Si until 2017 and then get a Model 3.
2) Assuming you can have two cars, get another plug-in like the Volt, Leaf or Spark EV (you'd have to ship from CA) as a "different kind of fun" car and then swap when the Model 3 comes out. That way you can get used to the plug-in paradigm and save wear on your Si at the same time.
#1 is exactly what my plan would be should I keep the Civic SI. However, what's the point in having a fun car if I can't drive it on a daily basis? I've considered the Volt/Leaf/Spark but as an enthusiast driver, I wouldn't buy one.
 
Civic SI Cons:
- may catch the eye/ear of cops much more quickly

Not really, if you don't dress it up with "all show/no go", "Fast and Furious" appearance upgrades.

Civic SI Cons:
- worse for the environment

Debatable - building a car does have some environmental impact. Is burning gas in the Civic worse than building a Model S? Don't know...
 
I assumed Zextraterrestrial just meant noise levels of the car in general. My previous car was an Evo with a turbo back exhaust. I had a hard time holding a conversation with someone in the rear seats. After driving the Model S I could never go back.

Buying the Model S tied up a lot of my "play" money, but it was worth it. It just comes down to what you enjoy more. Driving an amazing machine every day, or having more money to spend on other toys.
 
Although the car is big when you look at the dimensions, I've found that it drives (e.g. is nimble) and parks better than most smaller cars. I was concerned about this too as it's been many years since I drove a full size car. It turned out to be a non-issue.
 
Yes, actually. Not debatable at all.

That's a pretty stong assertion. :smile: Proof? (Especially since we have no idea what the OP's annual milage is...)

EDIT: Too be clear, I was comparing driving an existing ICE to building a new EV, not X miles on one vs the other (that answer is clear).
 
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Its very hard to compare these. Both of these cars were built with very different goals in mind. Even the Civic with turbo won't compare to the Model S. If its cheaper formance your looking for go with a older Vette, STi, Evo or even better GTR or Atom or a classic like the Grand National or a Tesla cousin the Elise. I can think of a million cheaper nice cars that will hand a civic its own doors. The imports are fun don't get me wrong, but once I had a other cars I saw that even with tons of work it won't as reliable or resellable. Motor swap and boots all you want but it won't happen because they can boost as well and your back a square one. If I were you I'd look at the list above and take your pick unless you want to wait till 2017 and even then it might not have the preformance your looking for.
 
A 11,8sec Civic is gonna need a LOT of modifications.

And even then the reliability will be crap. Did you have a heavily modified car in the past? You might be up for a big surprise! Everything that can break, will.
 
... driving the S as a fun car puts miles on it really fast + runs through tires like crazy - but it is oh so fun

If you really can afford it (not sure I can? I make ~ cost of car/ yr) no brainer!
kind of a life changing event/thing
Owning an EV is a pretty life changing event--especially if it's a Tesla. I'm not sure that deciding to spend $100k on a car is a no brainer decision, though :)

Don't blow your Civic. Just keep it as is.

Keep your cash.

Buy a Model S when the Civic takes a crap.
My Civic has 14,000 miles, and I drive about 16,000 miles/year. Unfortunately, I don't want to wait 8 years for it to die on me before I move on! Even three years feels like an eternity for me to wait.

Did someone mention Civic and Tesla in the same sentence? Yikes!
Yes; yes I did :D

I assumed Zextraterrestrial just meant noise levels of the car in general. My previous car was an Evo with a turbo back exhaust. I had a hard time holding a conversation with someone in the rear seats. After driving the Model S I could never go back.

Buying the Model S tied up a lot of my "play" money, but it was worth it. It just comes down to what you enjoy more. Driving an amazing machine every day, or having more money to spend on other toys.
That's definitely a consideration. I don't like loud cars. There's always the opportunity cost of money, as you alluded to in your post. I generally like to invest on the front end so I can have anything I want on the back end. I'm probably at the point where one year from now, I can own a Tesla without it impacting my financial future too significantly. I'll have three cashflowing properties and no (bad) debt with a six figure job... and no kids.

Although the car is big when you look at the dimensions, I've found that it drives (e.g. is nimble) and parks better than most smaller cars. I was concerned about this too as it's been many years since I drove a full size car. It turned out to be a non-issue.
I hope my experience follows your own. I've driven a Ford Crown Victoria, Honda Fit (first car), and Civic SI; smaller cars are much less stressful in parking lots and the city. I do like the Tesla's ability to carry a lot of people/stuff, though.

+1


They are on two different planets. I think you need to think more about what type of car you want.

-m
Well, I've given it considerable thought over the last couple years. The Civic SI was purchased as an intermediary car--something fun while I invest and focus on my career. I snowboard, bike, etc and must have 4 seats/4 doors with a folding down rear seat. That eliminates a lot of competition... My top cars are the BMW 335i and the Tesla Model S. If the Tesla didn't exist, I would own a BMW.

Its very hard to compare these. Both of these cars were built with very different goals in mind. Even the Civic with turbo won't compare to the Model S. If its cheaper formance your looking for go with a older Vette, STi, Evo or even better GTR or Atom or a classic like the Grand National or a Tesla cousin the Elise. I can think of a million cheaper nice cars that will hand a civic its own doors. The imports are fun don't get me wrong, but once I had a other cars I saw that even with tons of work it won't as reliable or resellable. Motor swap and boots all you want but it won't happen because they can boost as well and your back a square one. If I were you I'd look at the list above and take your pick unless you want to wait till 2017 and even then it might not have the preformance your looking for.
The vette is too impractical for me. The STi & Evo are ugly, noisy and uncomfortable. The GTR, Atom and other supercars are too impractical and a waste of money IMO. That leaves the Tesla as a unique vehicle that meets most of my criteria. I also love the company and CEO.

A 11,8sec Civic is gonna need a LOT of modifications.

And even then the reliability will be crap. Did you have a heavily modified car in the past? You might be up for a big surprise! Everything that can break, will.
That's what I fear and why I'm leaning against the Civic upgrades.

Sounds like you really should look for a used Roadster...
I've strongly considered the Roadster, but...
1. It's a 2 seater
2. I'm concerned about long term reliability. I want to drive it as my only car, and I'm not sure that Tesla's prototype car could do 100,000 miles.
3. It can't supercharge
4. Why not buy a Model S for the same money? It's the better value right now.

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Would be interesting to see the responses on a Honda forum
I agree; see responses on the 9thgencivic forum