TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC
Start a Discussionhttps://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/tags/

Tesla Phantom Battery Losses of 20%

Discussion in 'Model S' started by SocalMS, Jul 21, 2017.

Tags:
  1. SocalMS

    SocalMS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    215
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    My observation has been that unstated battery losses are at about 20%.

    For example, your car states you have 200 miles available to drive. But in reality, you can probably get about 160 Miles (give or take).

    Thus the true stated mileage of your Tesla vehicle is about 20% less than what's being advertised...

    You think you're going to get 235 miles of use, but only get about 190 Miles.

    This is from normal driving, street and highway.



    ** Recent Example:
    210 Miles Available.
    118.5 Miles driven since last charge
    35.4 KWH since last charge
    298 WH/Miles since last charge.

    Battery Left Over indicator Reads: 54 Miles

    A phantom loss of 37.50 Miles or 17.85%
     
    • Disagree x 6
    • Like x 2
    • Helpful x 1
  2. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Messages:
    5,207
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    There is no unstated loss. The rated range is the range on the EPA test cycle.
     
    • Like x 1
    • Disagree x 1
  3. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Messages:
    13,291
    Location:
    Texas
    I don't see that on my Model S. I almost always get more miles than shown--unless it's very windy or there is some other weather condition.

    Jul_1_2017_jerry.jpg
     
    • Like x 4
    • Informative x 1
    • Love x 1
  4. Mirlen

    Mirlen Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2017
    Messages:
    115
    Location:
    Kennett Square, PA
    3rd party apps? Cabin overheat protection enabled? Using the mobile app a bunch?
     
  5. SocalMS

    SocalMS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    215
    Location:
    Los Angeles

    None of the above...

    I've noticed these phantom battery loss since day 1...

    Other's have also cited battery loss while the car sits overnight and during the day parked at work...

    I'm estimating a solid 17% to 20% battery drain.
     
  6. Pezpunk

    Pezpunk Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    Messages:
    240
    Location:
    Bristow, VA
    Not seeing the same thing. I get the rated range or better usually.
     
    • Helpful x 1
    • Like x 1
  7. ucmndd

    ucmndd Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2016
    Messages:
    412
    Location:
    California
    Yes, I also have a Toyota Highlander that gets "27 miles per gallon" on the highway per the EPA but in the real world never sees above 22.

    You're not quantifying phantom drain or battery loss. You're just finding that your driving style/conditions don't match up with the EPA estimates (which Tesla along with every other automaker is mandated to use when reporting on range or fuel economy).

    As for me, it's more like 5-10% for my driving conditions and style. My "200 mile" MS 60 can go 180-190 miles between charges almost every single time.
     
    • Like x 4
  8. Hammer@OR.US

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2016
    Messages:
    233
    Location:
    Wren, Oregon
    You are misusing the term "phantom losses"
     
    • Like x 11
  9. Shateam

    Shateam Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2016
    Messages:
    79
    Location:
    NJ
    Not to hijack this thread, but what's your secret to averaging 246 wh/mi. I'm hardly an aggresive driver and can't do any better than 290 wh/mi in my S
     
  10. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Messages:
    13,291
    Location:
    Texas
    It really helps if you don't live where there is a real winter, but mostly it's a lot of practice and having a commute that's not too short. If you're lucky, you can route asymmetrically so that the "bad" way is not quite so bad. Other than that, keep your tire pressure and alignment up to snuff.
     
  11. SocalMS

    SocalMS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    215
    Location:
    Los Angeles

    Would you mind providing the "official" TMC Definition?

    I'm just asking here if others are also seeing a 17 to 20% loss... because that's what I'm noting on a brand new 2017 Model S...

    Thus, if your vehicle states 230Miles Available, in real life, you're only going to get 80% of that...

    And that's driving conservatively...at 298WH/Mile. And that's nothing...
     
  12. clostridium

    clostridium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2017
    Messages:
    110
    Location:
    Cleveland, Ohio
    I'm curious - if you work out the math using that average of 298 wh/mi does the amount of kWh you consumed correlate with what percent of the battery was used? Best to try this with a simple highway trip without much idling etc. to reduce the variables.

    I changed my car to the percent battery display from RM since the reading didn't seem very helpful - in the winter (when I was getting around 350 wh/mi) it gave a range that was longer than actual and in summer (when I get about 250 wh/mi) it gives a range that is lower than actual. I just look at the estimates on the display on the main screen.

    Do you find that estimates in the various trip planning apps give a reliable range? In my experience they are on target or I get a little better range.

    Are you using a program like Teslafi or similar to see more raw data? That may help sort this out.
     
  13. SocalMS

    SocalMS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    215
    Location:
    Los Angeles


    I'm not using any apps or gadgets...

    All I know is that at full charge, my vehicle says 240 miles available...

    At the end of my trip, my vehicle may say 50 miles available and 142 Miles Driven.

    Thus 48 Miles disappeared...


    eg.

    Start Mile Reading: 240 Miles
    End Mile Reading: 50 Miles
    Actual Miles Driven: 142 Miles
    .. Thus 48 Miles disappeared... or approx 20% of the original 240 Miles.
     
  14. zambono

    zambono Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2016
    Messages:
    978
    Location:
    DC
    For over a year I get rated or above. How you drive affects this, if you average 300 wH or less you will get the stated range. If you don't contact Tesla service
     
  15. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Messages:
    13,291
    Location:
    Texas
    I use them if I'm going to someplace new, just to see what they say and where the best destination stops are, but mostly I just get in and drive. Occasionally, if the weather is bad, I will look at the trip graph just to make sure I'm on target. Mostly, I don't think too much about it. The first time or two that you take a trip, it's something new so you plan a lot. After that, you just get in and drive. This was true even before there were SCs along the route.
     
  16. clostridium

    clostridium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2017
    Messages:
    110
    Location:
    Cleveland, Ohio
    The crux of my suggestion is to stop using the rated miles and look at the battery percentage (which is not the same as calculating that you have 20% of your rated miles left - change the units in the car settings).

    Then see how much battery percentage you have which can be directly converted to kWh. You can then take your consumption in kWh and see what you've got left to get a better sense of what's happening. If things don't add up maybe there's an issue with your car. I've found in my car that it adds up basically all the time. I stopped using rated miles because it was basically not a useful piece of information and only seemed to complicate the calculations. Note that the car has a few kWh held back in reserve which throws things off a little but not enough to matter usually.
     
  17. techmaven

    techmaven Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2013
    Messages:
    3,390
    Driving conservatively and in good weather, I get 225-260 Wh/mile in my 2013 P85, a car with much less rated efficiency. Limit your acceleration and take full advantage of regenerative braking will improve efficiency dramatically. It is also easy to get 350-400 Wh/mile by accelerating hard and don’t use regenerative braking.

    298/Wh/mile is not driving conservatively... another possibility is that you have higher performance tires or the wheel alignment is off.
     
  18. clostridium

    clostridium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2017
    Messages:
    110
    Location:
    Cleveland, Ohio
    I was sending that suggestion to the original poster. Trying to get some more data points on how his car is performing.

    I use trip planners very much like you do - I will plug a longer trip in the first time I'm doing it mainly out of curiosity but don't use them day to day.
     
  19. Lanber

    Lanber Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2015
    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    Norway
    My best advice is switch the view to % and forget the range number.
    To get the rated range you need to drive the rated consumption. Your driving habits and environment affects this.

    Call Tesla and complain about this, tape the conversation and let us all get a laugh.
     
    • Like x 1
  20. DB 2

    DB 2 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2016
    Messages:
    73
    Location:
    City of Angels
    To OP: Sounds like you have the car set to Ideal Miles instead of Rated Miles. Check under Settings / Units & Format / Energy & Charging on the Controls page of the touchscreen.
     

Share This Page