Tesla Pickup Truck

[Red Sage]

Why do you feel things need to be updated just because?

Because I agree with Elon Musk, and his dedication to first principles.

I have noticed its this way with you about everything not just the autonomous car thing but now this?

Not sure what you are talking about here at all.

Why update something when its works perfectly and its what everyone wants?

Because updating things to be better... is BETTER. That's why. There was a time when V8 engines were big, noisy, and smoky... And routinely got less than 8 MPG. They are far better today than they were 40 years ago. Maybe not to those shade tree mechanics who won't touch anything without a carburetor under the hood... But certainly so for everyone else.

Also because, long established traditional automobile manufacturers have a habit of sticking a patent on anything and everything they can think of... So, someone who wants to build a new vehicle from the ground up has to design EVERYTHING over again, or risk serious litigious action if not expressly given permission to use patented designs that are not yet in the public domain. Knowing that you have to design EVERYTHING anyway, you'd might as well put your own special spin on it, to determine what works best, what should be retained, what should be abandoned, and what should be changed entirely. That's why.

I don't think you realize the not everyone shares you thought process when it come to cars. Actually I would venture to say that quite a few don't, the vast majority actually.

That's cool. You don't have to. I learned a long time ago, from early childhood, that most people don't think the way I do. I have been challenged, literally since the age of three, by people who claimed I didn't know what I was talking about, who demanded that I explain myself. So I do. That makes some people really angry, because they are surprised that I take them literally. Because most of the time, they are speaking rhetorically instead. I hate rhetoric. I prefer logic. Because logically, if someone asks a question, it is proper to presume they want an answer. So I answer them. Too often, people decide I am making fun of them. I'm not. But I will not stand by and have someone accuse me of being incorrect when I know that I am not.

I write what I do, as I do, in an attempt to put forth ideas. Some of them may not be very well communicated, and I apologize for that. But everything I write is well considered before it leaves my keyboard.

As as additional point, the regulations are not going to be the end all be all. Its not the regulations that control everything its the buyers and what they want. Take the mpg requirement for future ICE cars for example. Due to people wanting trucks and suv's car companies are having trouble getting their fleet averages up so they are currently in the process of getting the requirements lowered and I am fairly confident that they will be lowered.

Nope. Not this time. Traditional automobile manufacturers have spent the past 40 years fighting the Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards set forth by the NTSB/NHTSA. They fight, and argue, and complain, and swear to high heaven that the regulations are too restrictive, will cost too much money, will drain power from the drivetrain, will result in vehicles that no one wants to buy... And then, miraculously, just at the eleventeenth hour...? They release vehicles that meet the supposedly 'impossible' regulations. Meanwhile, the Ford F-Series pickup trucks have seen their annual sales soaring higher and higher, year after year, for decades.

The traditional automobile manufacturers have won delays, and postponements, and deferments of regulatory requirements for emissions and fuel economy with trucks many, many times. But the jig is up now. Finally. The music has stopped, there's no more dancing by lobbyists, they have to put up or shut up. Period. And now, with Tesla Motors entering the pickup truck market right at the time that the last of their requested deferment periods ends, and every single vehicle, with no exemptions or exceptions, that is released in the US now counts toward the CAFE total...? It is absolutely imperative that traditional automobile manufacturers pull their heads out of their rear orifices and come to grips with the fact they must now improve the fuel efficiency of their trucks by any means or be forced to pay very heavy fines as a result. And Tesla Motors will be there to show them exactly how to do it, if they wish -- by offering fully electric vehicles -- not hybrids and diesels.

You have got to get out you your utopia world and talk to some people that are not on this site.

I live in Los Angeles now, but I grew up on a working farm in Mississippi. I know what pickup trucks are really for... because I've used them for that purpose. Hauling feed, bales of hay, and crops. Transporting livestock, lumber, rolls of barbed wire. Going through the deep and nasty muck off the beaten path and down in the woods. And every single one of those jobs can be performed BETTER by a properly engineered fully electric pickup truck.

It must have a true bed, not this hatchback with no roof crap. It will never sell if their is no real bed, their are to many things that use beds ranging from the tool boxes to truck campers and everything in between.

What the [HECK] are you talking about? The pictures of the Toyota A-BAT concept I posted? That was in response to a post someone else made of an early drawing of the same vehicle. That truck will NEVER be built, and it isn't what I would suggest for Tesla Motors. I like certain aspects of the design, but realize fully that there are things there that simply cannot work on a real work truck. I posted those photos for the benefit of anyone who had not seen the concept before, so that they might have an idea of what had been considered, and rejected, by Toyota. But that doesn't mean it has no value, or that some aspects of its design could not be used in a more effective fashion.

What exactly do you mean by 'a true bed' anyway? Just about every F-150 Lariat Crew Cab I have seen has a 6-1/2 foot bed. That's about the same as the much maligned Chevrolet El Camino, which I love, but everyone and their Grandmother's Sister Sarah acts as if was a complete piece of crap. My Brother has such an F-150, and when you fold down the tailgate and use the fold out cargo gate, you have room for 8 feet of gear in the back. I have no idea why a similar arrangement would not be considered useful on a Tesla Motors product. What I said was that it doesn't have to be a DETACHED, SEPARATE BED -- not that there should not be a bed at all.

I'm certain that Tesla Motors would be perfectly happy if no one ever installed a standard issue four-pole over-cab camper on their pickup truck. A big, long, middle finger to the over the shoulder tool box manufacturers too.

My main argument though is against vehicles designed to accommodate the wishes of third party vehicle conversions, where everything behind the factory cabin is replaced in its entirety... Tesla Motors will NOT allow that to happen at all. If a coachbuilder wants a specialized Tesla Motors drivetrain, they will have to play by Tesla's rules.

 

[Red Sage]

My vision is much simpler. Model S / X like nose (for crash safety). Two-door cab. Then the self-leveling bed. With optional hard cap.

How important are those ludicrous extended cabs and crew cabs anyway? They make no sense for work trucks. If they're too much of the market, Tesla may have to provide them. But it's much easier to provide a good work pickup with a regular cab. The extended cab and the bed are fighting for space, and only one of them can win. I guess you can just make an extra-long vehicle, but that has its own problems (doesn't fit in parking spaces, etc.)

If you're shrinking the bed too much in order to provide a huge cab, the customer should really be buying a sedan (S) or minivan (X). Though I suppose there are a disturbing number of "lifestyle" pickup buyers who just use it as a fashion statement.

Idunno about you, but back when I was a kid and we had the little truck with the so-called 'king cab' that had side saddle rear jump seats, that was very much a torture chamber whenever it was time to haul wood or get bags of concrete and masonry. Ah, but that big ole huge Ford Centurion -- a stretched wheelbase F-350 XLT Crew Cab Dually with a full-sized bed -- was an absolute joy to ride in. And ever since, I have felt that should be the standard issue configuration for a pickup truck, no matter the job at hand. Everything thing else is sorely lacking in comfort and utility by comparison.

Keep in mind that as a 'kid' of thirteen or fourteen, people often thought I was a full grown adult. I was literally never carded anywhere, for anything, until after I turned 21. I have long legs for my height, even now. Nothing seems more 'ludicrous' to me than having a single row of bench seating in a pickup truck. Not everyone in the world stands under 5'-8" and weighs under 150 lbs.

But sure, if you are someone that works alone, travels alone, almost all the time? Don't get the crew cab. But don't be surprised when the occasional passenger looks mighty uncomfortable.

 

[Red Sage]

Target the market leader. F150 I believe. Make a compelling alternative. Take market share. Become new leader.

Going after the F-Series is a good idea. Going after the F-150 is a bad idea. Here's why... If Tesla Motors had an existing annual capacity to handle at least 4,000,000 units per year, that might be a good idea. But by the time they are able to offer a pickup truck, they will at best be able to manage around 2,000,000 units per year all told, worldwide. If half of that is taken up by Model ☰ & Model Y variants, with another 150,000 or so being combined sales of Model S, Model X, Model Z (hypercar), and Model R (new roadster)... Then a nice big hunk of capacity could be geared directly at the higher end versions of the F-Series. That would be F-350, F-450, and F-550.

Look at it this way... Tesla Motors does not have the capacity to take on the Toyota Camry directly either. It is undoubtedly true that some of the people who end up purchasing a Tesla Model ☰ will be those who had been considering a top-of-the-line Camry or Avalon, and chose to move up to it, instead of the Lexus ES 350. But those same people might not have gotten the ES 350, even if there was no Model ☰. They might have been fine with a loaded Camry instead.

I'm thinking that people who are considering a loaded F-350, might choose to move upscale to a Class V capable Tesla Motors pickup truck... Even if they were not willing to move up to a Class V F-Series pickup.

But just as someone who is looking for a bargain basement Camry LE or Accord LX isn't going to get a BMW 320i or Lexus IS instead... Someone who is looking at a basic single cab F-150 isn't going to get a 3/4 ton Tesla Motors pickup, at a $10,000 premium, either. There would be no compelling reason to do so if the only benefit was electric drive, or if the electric pickup was only a little bit better for the money, and certainly not if it wasn't just as good for a premium.

Without the capacity to keep up with demand (should it appear), and the economies of scale to compete directly on price, Tesla Motors cannot afford to go after the baseline standard level of competitors' vehicles that are below a certain price point. Yet.

 

[YBT]

Going after the F-Series is a good idea. Going after the F-150 is a bad idea. Here's why... If Tesla Motors had an existing annual capacity to handle at least 4,000,000 units per year, that might be a good idea. But by the time they are able to offer a pickup truck, they will at best be able to manage around 2,000,000 units per year all told, worldwide. If half of that is taken up by Model ☰ & Model Y variants, with another 150,000 or so being combined sales of Model S, Model X, Model Z (hypercar), and Model R (new roadster)... Then a nice big hunk of capacity could be geared directly at the higher end versions of the F-Series. That would be F-350, F-450, and F-550.

The strategy of swimming down market has worked in the past and seems solid here as well, for the reasons you have outlined and more.

Elon has stated the Pick-Up will be based off the X platform. One wonders to what degree the Tesla skateboard allows for adjustments to length and configuration before suffering performance losses?

It may be for EV's that the challenges inherent within scaling platform length are reduced relative to ICE counterparts?

 

[Red Sage]

Elon has stated the Pick-Up will be based off the X platform.

This is the second or third time I've seen someone note this... Can you direct me to a source for the statement? Somehow I managed to miss it.

 

[theboom1]

My vision is much simpler. Model S / X like nose (for crash safety). Two-door cab. Then the self-leveling bed. With optional hard cap.

How important are those ludicrous extended cabs and crew cabs anyway? They make no sense for work trucks. If they're too much of the market, Tesla may have to provide them. But it's much easier to provide a good work pickup with a regular cab. The extended cab and the bed are fighting for space, and only one of them can win. I guess you can just make an extra-long vehicle, but that has its own problems (doesn't fit in parking spaces, etc.)

If you're shrinking the bed too much in order to provide a huge cab, the customer should really be buying a sedan (S) or minivan (X). Though I suppose there are a disturbing number of "lifestyle" pickup buyers who just use it as a fashion statement.

The #1 selling super duty configuration is an f250 lariat crew cab long bed

 

[theboom1]

Because I agree with Elon Musk, and his dedication to first principles.


Not sure what you are talking about here at all.


Because updating things to be better... is BETTER. That's why. There was a time when V8 engines were big, noisy, and smoky... And routinely got less than 8 MPG. They are far better today than they were 40 years ago. Maybe not to those shade tree mechanics who won't touch anything without a carburetor under the hood... But certainly so for everyone else.

Also because, long established traditional automobile manufacturers have a habit of sticking a patent on anything and everything they can think of... So, someone who wants to build a new vehicle from the ground up has to design EVERYTHING over again, or risk serious litigious action if not expressly given permission to use patented designs that are not yet in the public domain. Knowing that you have to design EVERYTHING anyway, you'd might as well put your own special spin on it, to determine what works best, what should be retained, what should be abandoned, and what should be changed entirely. That's why.


That's cool. You don't have to. I learned a long time ago, from early childhood, that most people don't think the way I do. I have been challenged, literally since the age of three, by people who claimed I didn't know what I was talking about, who demanded that I explain myself. So I do. That makes some people really angry, because they are surprised that I take them literally. Because most of the time, they are speaking rhetorically instead. I hate rhetoric. I prefer logic. Because logically, if someone asks a question, it is proper to presume they want an answer. So I answer them. Too often, people decide I am making fun of them. I'm not. But I will not stand by and have someone accuse me of being incorrect when I know that I am not.

I write what I do, as I do, in an attempt to put forth ideas. Some of them may not be very well communicated, and I apologize for that. But everything I write is well considered before it leaves my keyboard.


Nope. Not this time. Traditional automobile manufacturers have spent the past 40 years fighting the Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards set forth by the NTSB/NHTSA. They fight, and argue, and complain, and swear to high heaven that the regulations are too restrictive, will cost too much money, will drain power from the drivetrain, will result in vehicles that no one wants to buy... And then, miraculously, just at the eleventeenth hour...? They release vehicles that meet the supposedly 'impossible' regulations. Meanwhile, the Ford F-Series pickup trucks have seen their annual sales soaring higher and higher, year after year, for decades.

The traditional automobile manufacturers have won delays, and postponements, and deferments of regulatory requirements for emissions and fuel economy with trucks many, many times. But the jig is up now. Finally. The music has stopped, there's no more dancing by lobbyists, they have to put up or shut up. Period. And now, with Tesla Motors entering the pickup truck market right at the time that the last of their requested deferment periods ends, and every single vehicle, with no exemptions or exceptions, that is released in the US now counts toward the CAFE total...? It is absolutely imperative that traditional automobile manufacturers pull their heads out of their rear orifices and come to grips with the fact they must now improve the fuel efficiency of their trucks by any means or be forced to pay very heavy fines as a result. And Tesla Motors will be there to show them exactly how to do it, if they wish -- by offering fully electric vehicles -- not hybrids and diesels.


I live in Los Angeles now, but I grew up on a working farm in Mississippi. I know what pickup trucks are really for... because I've used them for that purpose. Hauling feed, bales of hay, and crops. Transporting livestock, lumber, rolls of barbed wire. Going through the deep and nasty muck off the beaten path and down in the woods. And every single one of those jobs can be performed BETTER by a properly engineered fully electric pickup truck.


What the [HECK] are you talking about? The pictures of the Toyota A-BAT concept I posted? That was in response to a post someone else made of an early drawing of the same vehicle. That truck will NEVER be built, and it isn't what I would suggest for Tesla Motors. I like certain aspects of the design, but realize fully that there are things there that simply cannot work on a real work truck. I posted those photos for the benefit of anyone who had not seen the concept before, so that they might have an idea of what had been considered, and rejected, by Toyota. But that doesn't mean it has no value, or that some aspects of its design could not be used in a more effective fashion.

What exactly do you mean by 'a true bed' anyway? Just about every F-150 Lariat Crew Cab I have seen has a 6-1/2 foot bed. That's about the same as the much maligned Chevrolet El Camino, which I love, but everyone and their Grandmother's Sister Sarah acts as if was a complete piece of crap. My Brother has such an F-150, and when you fold down the tailgate and use the fold out cargo gate, you have room for 8 feet of gear in the back. I have no idea why a similar arrangement would not be considered useful on a Tesla Motors product. What I said was that it doesn't have to be a DETACHED, SEPARATE BED -- not that there should not be a bed at all.

My point with the regulations thing is that they are being challenged one way or another due to customer demands. You have to remember that with mpg requirements it can't be seen as a bad thing. Some people might not care what their vehicle gets but no one wants worse mpg so the welcome better but don't require it. With your suggestions however, its completely different. The regulations that you state will happen that bans you from being able to drive your vehicle on a public road in anyway, shape, or form or the regulations taking away the bed of trucks will NEVER happen. Why? Because NO ONE except of a very few active vocal people like you (seriously don't you all have a job? how are you posting this much 24/7?) want to ban driving or take away the truck bed as we have it now. I mean seriously, other than a few very active people on only this form, no one I have talked to want's to ban driving. Same with the truck bed. Unlike mpg where some want it and some can take it or leave it. I have extreme respect for Elon and what he has accomplished, but you have got to stop acting like he knows everything. So far he has only provided a vehicle that changes the power source and added features to the car. Lets see how well it sells when you take things like the steering wheel or bed out. He has only done things that enhance the experience and capability, not take away from it. That's why he has been successful so far. Look at most future car concepts from other companies all the way through 2050, most of them still have a steering wheel in them.

This it a real truck bed:

This is not:

Let me know when you figure out some of the key differences. Yes I think the el camino is a POS as well.

If you really did live on a farm you should get all of this. From the need to drive to the truck bed dilemma.

 

[Red Sage]

My point with the regulations thing is that they are being challenged one way or another due to customer demands.

[BOLSHEVIK]. No. There is no 'customer demand' to challenge CAFE and CARB emissions requirements. That is some [BOLSHEVIK] that is spouted primarily by Chrysler, GM, and Ford year-after-year-after-year... But it is complete and total [BOLSHEVIK] through-and-through. There is no line of customers anywhere (with an I.Q. substantially higher than their sneaker size) that say they aren't going to buy cars and trucks if they pollute less and get better fuel economy.

You have to remember that with mpg requirements it can't be seen as a bad thing.

Funny. I recently came across an article written for Car and Driver by Patrick Bedard about ten years ago. He said that CAFE was the worst thing to happen to the automotive industry since 1975. Personally? I thought he must have been smoking crack and liking it. A bunch. Apparently he lost his mind near the end of his career.
Again, CAFE Races Ahead to Catch Up with You - Column

Some people might not care what their vehicle gets but no one wants worse mpg so the welcome better but don't require it.

That's the thing... For forty years the Detroit Big Three have argued incessantly that worse fuel economy is exactly what the American buying public wants. Of course, they were wrong... And that was proven by GM alone losing over 15% of market share over the course of ten years from 1976 to 1986 -- with pretty much none of that going to the other two -- as imported cars became more and more popular. If Detroit had their way, 22-foot-long 5,000 lbs coupes with nautical steering, 400 cid motors, 400 HP, 4 barrel carburetors, four-on-the-floor, dual exhast, and 25 gallon fuel tanks would be the smallest thing they ever built. Oh, and they would have all went out of business twenty years ago.

With your suggestions however, its completely different. The regulations that you state will happen that bans you from being able to drive your vehicle on a public road in anyway, shape, or form or the regulations taking away the bed of trucks will NEVER happen.

I didn't say that. At all. No regulations are retroactive. If the car was legal when it was built, it remains so even when regulations change.

Why? Because NO ONE except of a very few active vocal people like you (seriously don't you all have a job? how are you posting this much 24/7?) want to ban driving or take away the truck bed as we have it now.

Once again, I didn't say that. Please read the words I type. I said that a Tesla Motors pickup truck is likely to be of unibody construction but that the bed would not be detached. That means the bed of the truck would be part of the main body itself. I said that the rear bed would not be removable or replaceable.

I mean seriously, other than a few very active people on only this form, no one I have talked to want's to ban driving. Same with the truck bed.

I didn't say any of that. Do you actually read at all? This is getting tiring. A pickup truck does NOT have to have a floating bed in the rear that is completely separate from the cabin. That design serves no purpose beyond allowing the same basic vehicle design to be switched out to several different configurations in aftermarket. That will NOT be allowed by Tesla Motors.

Unlike mpg where some want it and some can take it or leave it.

And now you contradict yourself.

I have extreme respect for Elon and what he has accomplished, but you have got to stop acting like he knows everything.

Elon Musk doesn't have to know everything. He just has to know what he is talking about. And, he does.

So far he has only provided a vehicle that changes the power source and added features to the car. Lets see how well it sells when you take things like the steering wheel or bed out. He has only done things that enhance the experience and capability, not take away from it. That's why he has been successful so far. Look at most future car concepts from other companies all the way through 2050, most of them still have a steering wheel in them.

And there you go again. Please point me to the place where I said anything at all should be 'taken away' from a pickup truck design. I said nothing at all about calling a vehicle a pickup, but having no bed at all. You have said that numerous times and attributed it to me, but I don't know why. Because I didn't say that. Neither have I advocated 'taking away' a steering wheel. I ask again, just what the [HECK] are you talking about?

This it a real truck bed:

Yup. Shole iz. So what? And... Do you know what the word 'detached' means?

This is not:

Let me know when you figure out some of the key differences. Yes I think the el camino is a POS as well.

The Chevrolet El Camino was pure awesomeness personified. Obviously, you have a serious problem with concept vehicles from Asian automobile manufacturers. Definitely a personal problem.

If you really did live on a farm you should get all of this. From the need to drive to the truck bed dilemma.

Perhaps you have not actually read the words that went from my keyboard to this website. Maybe you don't realize that Tesla Motors is not an Asian firm and does not display concept cars. Perhaps you didn't notice the 'real truck bed' photos I posted above. Maybe [PERSONAL ATTACK DELETED]. I don't know. But the bottom line is that you should not expect a Tesla Motors pickup truck to look like a slab-sided box-on-wheels-over-leaf-springs F-150 or Silverado clone.

 

[wdolson]

My main argument though is against vehicles designed to accommodate the wishes of third party vehicle conversions, where everything behind the factory cabin is replaced in its entirety... Tesla Motors will NOT allow that to happen at all. If a coachbuilder wants a specialized Tesla Motors drivetrain, they will have to play by Tesla's rules.

Tesla could break into the sedan and SUV market because it was balkanized in the 70s by Japanese imports and has been further balkanized since by cars from Korea and Europe. Brand loyalty in the car market is weak and while there is a customization market for cars, it is a totally different animal from the truck customization market.

The truck market is huge in volume, but very small in players. You have the Big 3 American car makers and Toyota in full sized trucks and despite Toyota's better rep in the car market, they have only picked away at the fringes of the full sized pickup market.

One of those basic principles Elon aims at is to come up with vehicles that are better than the competition in every single way and in the few areas where the laws of Physics makes that impossible, come up with a work around that makes the limitation palatable. That's what they did with the Model S and they tried to do it with the Model X, but got too creative for their own good.

Tesla's goal here is to destroy every possible argument against their technology before they can even be formed. Even the most ardent naysayers about Tesla can't really complain much about the design of the car. They may criticize the reliability issues, most of which have been solved, but they did exist at one time. They also criticize the company and the price, but rarely does anyone have anything bad to say about the actual design of the car because Tesla made sure there was nothing anyone could argue about without looking like a fool.

If Tesla doesn't make pickups that are compatible with existing truck bed replacements, they will be handing ammunition to the Big 3 to tear them down and it will cost them a lot of sales. They need to be compatible with the commercial aftermarket for truck bodies or it will hurt them badly. They are going after a market that has the strongest brand loyalty in the entire automotive industry. Just like their planning for the Model S, they need to destroy every possible negative argument while on the drawing board.

The Tesla pickup not only has to be a great electric pickup, it has to be the best pickup ever designed and has to do every job an ICE pickup can do. And any area where Physics prevents that, they need to come up with a work around that consumers will want.

 

[wdolson]

Perhaps you have not actually read the words that went from my keyboard to this website. Maybe you don't realize that Tesla Motors is not an Asian firm and does not display concept cars. Perhaps you didn't notice the 'real truck bed' photos I posted above. Maybe [PERSONAL ATTACK DELETED]. I don't know. But the bottom line is that you should not expect a Tesla Motors pickup truck to look like a slab-sided box-on-wheels-over-leaf-springs F-150 or Silverado clone.

I think it will be almost certain the Tesla pickup will have some innovative ideas that go beyond what we have today, but I also think they need to be able to conform to existing commercial aftermarket equipment too or it will badly hurt their sales.

 

[YBT]

Going after the F-Series is a good idea. Going after the F-150 is a bad idea. Here's why... If Tesla Motors had an existing annual capacity to handle at least 4,000,000 units per year, that might be a good idea. But by the time they are able to offer a pickup truck, they will at best be able to manage around 2,000,000 units per year all told, worldwide. If half of that is taken up by Model ☰ & Model Y variants, with another 150,000 or so being combined sales of Model S, Model X, Model Z (hypercar), and Model R (new roadster)... Then a nice big hunk of capacity could be geared directly at the higher end versions of the F-Series. That would be F-350, F-450, and F-550.

The strategy of swimming down market has worked in the past and seems solid here as well, for the reasons you have outlined and more.

Elon has stated the Pick-Up will be based off the X platform. One wonders to what degree the Tesla skateboard allows for adjustments to length and configuration before suffering performance losses?

It may be for EV's that the challenges inherent within scaling platform length are reduced relative to ICE counterparts?

 

[Red Sage]

Tesla could break into the sedan and SUV market because it was balkanized in the 70s by Japanese imports and has been further balkanized since by cars from Korea and Europe. Brand loyalty in the car market is weak and while there is a customization market for cars, it is a totally different animal from the truck customization market.

The truck market is huge in volume, but very small in players. You have the Big 3 American car makers and Toyota in full sized trucks and despite Toyota's better rep in the car market, they have only picked away at the fringes of the full sized pickup market.

One of those basic principles Elon aims at is to come up with vehicles that are better than the competition in every single way and in the few areas where the laws of Physics makes that impossible, come up with a work around that makes the limitation palatable. That's what they did with the Model S and they tried to do it with the Model X, but got too creative for their own good.

Tesla's goal here is to destroy every possible argument against their technology before they can even be formed. Even the most ardent naysayers about Tesla can't really complain much about the design of the car. They may criticize the reliability issues, most of which have been solved, but they did exist at one time. They also criticize the company and the price, but rarely does anyone have anything bad to say about the actual design of the car because Tesla made sure there was nothing anyone could argue about without looking like a fool.

If Tesla doesn't make pickups that are compatible with existing truck bed replacements, they will be handing ammunition to the Big 3 to tear them down and it will cost them a lot of sales. They need to be compatible with the commercial aftermarket for truck bodies or it will hurt them badly. They are going after a market that has the strongest brand loyalty in the entire automotive industry. Just like their planning for the Model S, they need to destroy every possible negative argument while on the drawing board.

The Tesla pickup not only has to be a great electric pickup, it has to be the best pickup ever designed and has to do every job an ICE pickup can do. And any area where Physics prevents that, they need to come up with a work around that consumers will want.

OK. Tell me... Where is the Coupe version of the Tesla Model S? Where is the Convertible version of the Tesla Model S? Where is the Wagon version of the Tesla Model S? Surely there must be some reason why, after selling seven years worth of cars in only 3-1/2 years, Tesla Motors has chosen NOT to release those variants of their best selling vehicle. Because quite a few people have been clamoring for each of them for quite some time. Instead, there is exactly ONE physical body style for the Model S, discounting the refreshed face, and none of the others are available.

At no point since its introduction has Tesla Motors gone out of their way to either allow or aid third parties to significantly customize the Model S to be come a Coupe, Convertible, Wagon, Stretch Limousine, or El Camino clone. Tesla Motors hasn't even chosen to release a stripped, bare, lightened, racetrack tuned version of the Model S with enhanced battery cooling and six piston vented ceramic brakes on gigantic wheels and stickier tires behind widened fender flares and ground effects with a big wing hung off the back -- or even made it particularly easy for someone else to make those types of modifications in the past four years.

I believe that resistance to the aftermarket customization and tinkering industry has been about two things: Safety and Reputation. Yes, there are plenty of reputable companies that do a good job with coachwork and create some spectacular variants of established vehicles all the time. But there are also a whole bunch of hacks out there that do no engineering whatsoever and just modify anything with a VIN # any way they want and damn the results or consequences. Because as nice as it would be to see a Model S race car kicking everyone's butt at tracks from Willow Springs and Laguna Seca all the way to the Nürburgring...? It would be absolutely HORRIBLE to see accidents and failures and maimings and DEATHS as a result of someone outside of Tesla Motors doing something STUPID that ends up BREAKING, thereby endangering occupants or spectators or innocent bystanders.

Yes, there are a lot of aftermarket options for a bare pickup truck frame that have been developed over the course of the past 100 years. Some of them are really, truly amazing in what they allow a truck to do. But I sincerely doubt that any of them actually make those trucks SAFER to operate on the road. And of any and all reputations that an electric vehicle may earn, the one that I believe Elon holds most dear is that of being SAFE for drivers and occupants. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. He would absolutely be horrified to find a Google search for 'pickup truck crash' would be lead by photos of a Tesla Motors vehicle in smithereens. And beyond that, he would be thoroughly pissed to learn that had happened because someone chose to stick something on their truck that didn't belong.

The 'accessories' that Tesla Motors will probably authorize would be of another type for aftermarket vendors. It would be enabled for towing via ball hitch, weight distribution hitch, and fifth-wheel hookups. It would have proper connections for a push bar and winch. You could possibly have a light bar, or high rack.

I would not expect to see a lift kit for monster truck enthusiasts at all. There would be no tow truck, dump truck, trash truck, or flatbed configuration -- of the pickup truck. Those would have to be on a separate configuration designed specifically for those applications as commercial vehicles. There is no need whatsoever for those niches to be fulfilled by third parties.

Now, honestly... I do expect to see Coupe, Convertible, and Wagon versions of the Model ☰ some day. But I would not be surprised if that takes a while to materialize.

 

[CarShipCarrier]

I would be one of the first in line if Tesla were to make an electric pickup truck. I am a big Ford F-150 fan, but if a Tesla Truck would be available it would be a game changer. To do a Tesla Truck I feel like the battery would have to be about double the size so it can tow something a good distance. If they were to put a 90 kwh battery in it, the towing would be like 100 miles max. Lastly, I would call it Tesla Model T. Just seems logical.

 

[GoTslaGo]

Lastly, I would call it Tesla Model T. Just seems logical.

I believe Ford owns that one, as well as Model E.

Hence the Model 3, not the Model E as was the goal with "S, E, X, Y".

 

[CarShipCarrier]

I believe Ford owns that one, as well as Model E.

Hence the Model 3, not the Model E as was the goal with "S, E, X, Y".

I didn't even think of that. You're perfectly right. Probably Model U (U standing for Utility) or Model P (P standing for Pickup). I am looking forward to see what they actually come out with over the next 5 years. It could be game changing. Either way, we are all going to keep talking about it. ;-)

 

[wdolson]

Elon has tweeted that the Model Y will be the last car with that naming style. Subsequent vehicles will have a different naming scheme.

 

[Red Sage]

Elon has tweeted that the Model Y will be the last car with that naming style. Subsequent vehicles will have a different naming scheme.

I wouldn't mind too much if they went with NATO phonetics... SIERRA, ECHO, X-RAY, YANKEE... Followed by ROMEO, and ZULU perhaps?

 

[theboom1]

[BOLSHEVIK]. No. There is no 'customer demand' to challenge CAFE and CARB emissions requirements. That is some [BOLSHEVIK] that is spouted primarily by Chrysler, GM, and Ford year-after-year-after-year... But it is complete and total [BOLSHEVIK] through-and-through. There is no line of customers anywhere (with an I.Q. substantially higher than their sneaker size) that say they aren't going to buy cars and trucks if they pollute less and get better fuel economy.


Funny. I recently came across an article written for Car and Driver by Patrick Bedard about ten years ago. He said that CAFE was the worst thing to happen to the automotive industry since 1975. Personally? I thought he must have been smoking crack and liking it. A bunch. Apparently he lost his mind near the end of his career.
Again, CAFE Races Ahead to Catch Up with You - Column


That's the thing... For forty years the Detroit Big Three have argued incessantly that worse fuel economy is exactly what the American buying public wants. Of course, they were wrong... And that was proven by GM alone losing over 15% of market share over the course of ten years from 1976 to 1986 -- with pretty much none of that going to the other two -- as imported cars became more and more popular. If Detroit had their way, 22-foot-long 5,000 lbs coupes with nautical steering, 400 cid motors, 400 HP, 4 barrel carburetors, four-on-the-floor, dual exhast, and 25 gallon fuel tanks would be the smallest thing they ever built. Oh, and they would have all went out of business twenty years ago.


I didn't say that. At all. No regulations are retroactive. If the car was legal when it was built, it remains so even when regulations change.


Once again, I didn't say that. Please read the words I type. I said that a Tesla Motors pickup truck is likely to be of unibody construction but that the bed would not be detached. That means the bed of the truck would be part of the main body itself. I said that the rear bed would not be removable or replaceable.


I didn't say any of that. Do you actually read at all? This is getting tiring. A pickup truck does NOT have to have a floating bed in the rear that is completely separate from the cabin. That design serves no purpose beyond allowing the same basic vehicle design to be switched out to several different configurations in aftermarket. That will NOT be allowed by Tesla Motors.


And now you contradict yourself.


Elon Musk doesn't have to know everything. He just has to know what he is talking about. And, he does.


And there you go again. Please point me to the place where I said anything at all should be 'taken away' from a pickup truck design. I said nothing at all about calling a vehicle a pickup, but having no bed at all. You have said that numerous times and attributed it to me, but I don't know why. Because I didn't say that. Neither have I advocated 'taking away' a steering wheel. I ask again, just what the [HECK] are you talking about?


Yup. Shole iz. So what? And... Do you know what the word 'detached' means?


The Chevrolet El Camino was pure awesomeness personified. Obviously, you have a serious problem with concept vehicles from Asian automobile manufacturers. Definitely a personal problem.


Perhaps you have not actually read the words that went from my keyboard to this website. Maybe you don't realize that Tesla Motors is not an Asian firm and does not display concept cars. Perhaps you didn't notice the 'real truck bed' photos I posted above. Maybe [PERSONAL ATTACK DELETED]. I don't know. But the bottom line is that you should not expect a Tesla Motors pickup truck to look like a slab-sided box-on-wheels-over-leaf-springs F-150 or Silverado clone.

You get pretty mad when people don't agree with you don't you city dweller? Ok ill go point by point like you do:
1: Um how do they challenge CAFE and CARB? By buying trucks, suv's, and sports cars and not buying eco cars. Its a pretty simple concept. Last part of that response, well, you proved my point for me. Thank you.
2: Your going to use what one guy said? I thought you were about using valid points?
3: Old buying trends. Update yours and look at the new ones please.
4: You have said it about future vehicles you wont be able to drive. Ya the majority of people WILL NOT buy that.
5: One again you want to ban driving(will not happen) and change the truck bed.
6: But.....you do say that. Go back a coupe pages and you will see you saying you support banning driving. Tesla will not make the bed detachable? Ok, tesla wont sell very well compared to the people that do. Why? because people want that. If tesla wants to shoot themselves in the foot, be my guest.
7: How do I contradict myself? I literally restate something I have already said.
8: He has been right for the most part (yes the most part not all) so far, that will change if he does things like your suggesting.
9: I point to you making it not detachable (up there^^ scroll up you should see it) Umm..... help me out here. You have very clearly said that you think and wish that soon we will get to the point that you wont be able to drive you car on public roads, aka taking away the steering wheel, I think like 5 people tops agreed with you.
10- whatever: I honestly don't care about the other parts(el camino was a POS and sales and the fact that there has not been one like it since can back me up)

 

[wdolson]

OK. Tell me... Where is the Coupe version of the Tesla Model S? Where is the Convertible version of the Tesla Model S? Where is the Wagon version of the Tesla Model S? Surely there must be some reason why, after selling seven years worth of cars in only 3-1/2 years, Tesla Motors has chosen NOT to release those variants of their best selling vehicle. Because quite a few people have been clamoring for each of them for quite some time. Instead, there is exactly ONE physical body style for the Model S, discounting the refreshed face, and none of the others are available.

One reason Tesla hasn't produced any variations on the body style is they don't have the engineering resources to spare. Tesla already spends a higher percentage of their income on R&D than any other car maker.

[QUOTE}
At no point since its introduction has Tesla Motors gone out of their way to either allow or aid third parties to significantly customize the Model S to be come a Coupe, Convertible, Wagon, Stretch Limousine, or El Camino clone. Tesla Motors hasn't even chosen to release a stripped, bare, lightened, racetrack tuned version of the Model S with enhanced battery cooling and six piston vented ceramic brakes on gigantic wheels and stickier tires behind widened fender flares and ground effects with a big wing hung off the back -- or even made it particularly easy for someone else to make those types of modifications in the past four years.

I believe that resistance to the aftermarket customization and tinkering industry has been about two things: Safety and Reputation. Yes, there are plenty of reputable companies that do a good job with coachwork and create some spectacular variants of established vehicles all the time. But there are also a whole bunch of hacks out there that do no engineering whatsoever and just modify anything with a VIN # any way they want and damn the results or consequences. Because as nice as it would be to see a Model S race car kicking everyone's butt at tracks from Willow Springs and Laguna Seca all the way to the Nürburgring...? It would be absolutely HORRIBLE to see accidents and failures and maimings and DEATHS as a result of someone outside of Tesla Motors doing something STUPID that ends up BREAKING, thereby endangering occupants or spectators or innocent bystanders.
[/QUOTE]

There are third parties modifying Model Ss. I've seen articles on a few of them, Saleen has one, and a major European modder has one. I haven't seen anywhere that Tesla authorized any of those mods, nor that they really are all that concerned.

As for modifying the Model S for racing other than drag racing would be an embarrassment. You could get a better top speed by disabling the governor that tops out at 155 mph, but at racing speeds the car would struggle to keep the battery pack cool. If you add extra battery cooling, it would help, but it would add weight. Even if you could get the car to maintain 200 mph without overheating the batteries, you would have abysmal range. At 200 mph you'd be lucky if the range was 50 miles on a charge. You could do battery swaps, but if the car had to pull off to swap batteries every 50 miles, that would mean a lot of time in the pit and the car would likely lose the race, even if it could outrun the competition on short stretches.

The tech just isn't up to taking on ICE cars head to head in track racing yet.

Yes, there are a lot of aftermarket options for a bare pickup truck frame that have been developed over the course of the past 100 years. Some of them are really, truly amazing in what they allow a truck to do. But I sincerely doubt that any of them actually make those trucks SAFER to operate on the road. And of any and all reputations that an electric vehicle may earn, the one that I believe Elon holds most dear is that of being SAFE for drivers and occupants. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. He would absolutely be horrified to find a Google search for 'pickup truck crash' would be lead by photos of a Tesla Motors vehicle in smithereens. And beyond that, he would be thoroughly pissed to learn that had happened because someone chose to stick something on their truck that didn't belong.

I tried to point out the aftermarket for trucks and cars is very different. Both have the vanity aftermarket who are individual customizing their rides. However, the truck market has a commercial aftermarket that the car business pretty much doesn't have. About the only commercial aftermarket for cars is police car and taxi modifications. The vanity market for cars is vastly bigger than the commercial market. For trucks, the commercial market for mods is vast and I'm sure bigger than the vanity market.

The vanity market is fueled by discretionary income, but the commercial market is fueled by need and the majority of commercial modifications are done by corporate or government entities and paid out of their budgets. Someone may think they need custom rims for their car, but really it's only for showing off. A business truck actually needs the modifications its getting to do the job it was bought for. If the modification can't be done, the customer will not buy the truck.

If Tesla can't build trucks that work with the existing aftermarket for trucks, fleet buyers will pass them by because the modifications are a need, not a want. An individual buying a vehicle for their private use might weigh the pros and cons for modifications available and buy anyway because they will decide they can do without a mod that is not available.

The 'accessories' that Tesla Motors will probably authorize would be of another type for aftermarket vendors. It would be enabled for towing via ball hitch, weight distribution hitch, and fifth-wheel hookups. It would have proper connections for a push bar and winch. You could possibly have a light bar, or high rack.

I would not expect to see a lift kit for monster truck enthusiasts at all. There would be no tow truck, dump truck, trash truck, or flatbed configuration -- of the pickup truck. Those would have to be on a separate configuration designed specifically for those applications as commercial vehicles. There is no need whatsoever for those niches to be fulfilled by third parties.

Now, honestly... I do expect to see Coupe, Convertible, and Wagon versions of the Model ☰ some day. But I would not be surprised if that takes a while to materialize.

Tesla may not make a convertible version because the safety standards makes it tougher and tougher to make them. There are few available for sale from anyone today. They might make a T-top kind of sports car version someday. The wagon market is not strong in the US, but I could see them making a wagon of some kind when they start building the cars in other countries, though it will likely be a wagon in the same way the Model S is a wagon. It will be more aerodynamic than wagons usually are.

We will see in a year or so what Telsa is planning for a pickup, but I fully expect that while it will have some innovative features, it will be designed to please the fleet market and it will be compatible with a large range of existing aftermarket mods used in business.

A trash truck version of their large truck chassis would be a natural fit. In Europe clean air standards are banning all ICEs from city cores in the next few years. All service trucks will have to go to electric. Any truck that needs to make many stops, electric is a great way to go. Trash trucks get some of the worst gas mileage of any ICE truck because of the constant starting and stopping. An EV trash truck wouldn't get great range because you do lose energy starting, but you would get some back stopping. It being much quieter would also be popular with customers.

Once they have a couple of electric truck chassis, I can see Tesla really going after the short haul truck market: UPS, Fedex, trash trucks, mail delivery, and any other kind of neighborhood truck. As long as the battery has enough charge for the vehicle to do its work during the day, these vehicles can spend all night charging and it would work perfectly.

 

[RobStark]

A $65k Pickup Benchmark. Wait list is months long( Demand outstrips Supply) and Ford dealers get full MSRP.