Tesla, please get rid of the fake leather and use real leather

[Huskyfan]

Was just told by Mobile Technician that replaced a bubble in my headrest that it is not uncommon to see fake leather separate from the underbacking of the material. Unlike really leather, this stuff is made with a synthetic woven material and the fake leather is glued to the woven material.

It is somewhat porous, so to absorb moisture and be breathable, to mimic leather. The downside is that the glue can be weakened or destroyed by a number of seemingly innocuous interior cleaning products.

So why not use leather like almost every other car manufacturer? At least as an option. I did not purchase the car entirely to be ecologically‘environmentally conscious. Sure, a bit of that went into my decision making. But to provide an inferior product that has questionable durability and an unknown amount of benefit to our planet seems more marketing than common sense.

I would bet as our cars age this fake leather will have a much shorter lifespan compared to leather. It also just does not look like leather, especially in regards to cleaning/maintenance.

 

[snikt]

I think real leather in cars is becoming a thing of the past. I think the newer fake leather is pretty good, it used to be terrible in the past. When we bought my wife's Mini Countryman the fake BMW leatherette actually felt better than the real leather options.

You can't get real leather on many EVs I think, not on the Mach-E, ID.4, EV6, etc..

 

[jsight]

Have you looked at older Teslas? They hold up at least as well as the "genuine" leather on most cars. Genuine leather is generally a thin low grade attached just as you say and often separates.

Tesla uses a polyurethane that seems to be holding up well for most people. The biggest weaknesses seem to be the stitchings and the wrinkling where people get in and out. Both of those are the weaknesses with real leather too.

I do wish they offered a really high end leather as an upgrade, but I'm not sure that I'd have paid for it anyway.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I doubt they'll bring it back.
Artificial materials are cheaper and usually more durable.

 

[Huskyfan]

I doubt they'll bring it back.
Artificial materials are cheaper and usually more durable.

yes, this is truly the reason they use it. Cheaper. And some folks think it is helping to save the planet in some small way. Marketing.

 

[longhorn8847]

Real leather has a high environmental cost compared to 'fake' leather. For a company that touts sustainable energy future, I do not think it will ever utilize the real leather... I would definitely suggest a regular cleaning regimen to maintain/expand the lifespan of the fake leather quality. Maybe it will help

 

[Huskyfan]

Real leather has a high environmental cost compared to 'fake' leather. For a company that touts sustainable energy future, I do not think it will ever utilize the real leather... I would definitely suggest a regular cleaning regimen to maintain/expand the lifespan of the fake leather quality. Maybe it will help

Agree with what you have said. thanks for your rationale answer.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

yes, this is truly the reason they use it. Cheaper. And some folks think it is helping to save the planet in some small way. Marketing.

Ah, yes--any facts that disrupt current strongly held beliefs must be "Marketing?"

Recommend clicking through to actually read facts you may create discomfort. Tip: things that make you uncomfortable often indicate growth in intelligence and wisdom.

Embrace it.

From the previous link:

Animal agriculture is responsible for 18 percent of greenhouse gas emissions, more than the combined exhaust from all transportation. ​

"Livestock's Long Shadow: environmental issues and options". Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations. Rome 2006

And:

Livestock and their byproducts account for at least 32,000 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) per year, or 51% of all worldwide greenhouse gas emissions.​

Goodland, R Anhang, J. “Livestock and Climate Change: What if the key actors in climate change were pigs, chickens and cows?”

Goodland, Robert & Anhang, Jeff. "Livestock and Climate Change: What if the key actors in climate change are...cows, pigs and chickens?". WorldWatch. November/December 2009

Hickman, Martin. "Study claims meat creates half of all greenhouse gases". Independent. November 2009

Hyner, Christopher. "A Leading Cause of Everything: One Industry That Is Destroying Our Planet and Our Ability to Thrive on It". Georgetown Environmental Law Review. October 23, 2015. (New)

And:

Methane is 25-100 times more destructive than CO2 on a 20 year time frame.​

Shindell, Drew T, et al. "Improved Attribution of Climate Forcing to Emissions". Science. 326, 716 (2009)

Vaidyanathan, Sayathri. "How Bad of a Greenhouse Gas is Methane? The global warming potential of the gaseous fossil fuel may be consistently underestimated". Scientific American. December 22, 2015.

And so forth.

The critical factor here is how few know of these facts, and how even less take real action, such as transitioning to a plant-based lifestyle. I am shocked that under 10% of the population has eschewed animal flesh at the first half of 2021.

Thus, I encourage everyone to transition to EV's, get solar panels, and stop being part of the problem by no longer eating animal flesh.

"First Principles" and all that . . . .

 

[Big Dog]

Never gonna happen Husky. Don't you read the other blogs, cows contribute to global warming? Elon would never approve such a politically-incorrect solution even if it was much cheaper.

 

[zhu-]

If Tesla wants their S and X to be competitor with their german luxury competitors they'll probably need to use real leather. The fake leather kind of sucks but it does last longer though. Mercedes' fake leather MB-tex was always suggested on forums as the better option for those who want to keep their car for 6-10+ years.

 

[Gasaraki]

yes, this is truly the reason they use it. Cheaper. And some folks think it is helping to save the planet in some small way. Marketing.

If you actually know what company they sourced the "leather" from, you would know it's actually not cheaper. Leather is cheap.

People on the forum for awhile know what company makes the leather and it is more durable than leather. I can post the name of the company but i'm sure you don't really care.

 

[longhorn8847]

Agree with what you have said. thanks for your rationale answer.

No worries I would be frustrated as well if my MY or M3's leather has an issue.. I am just hoping that my two dogs' constant drooling and my endless fight to prevent those drool marks will help keep my leathers intact while I own my Teslas

 

[TSLA Pilot]

If Tesla wants their S and X to be competitor with their german luxury competitors they'll probably need to use real leather. The fake leather kind of sucks but it does last longer though. Mercedes' fake leather MB-tex was always suggested on forums as the better option for those who want to keep their car for 6-10+ years.

Yes, because using the skins of animals, which are treated with toxic chemicals, for seats and more, is "better?"

Recommend a walk-through of used car lot to see how leather looks as a car ages.

Also, suggest a review of these facts will help you understand why MB and other luxury competitors still using animal flesh is a metaphor for their obsolete thinking; they will be gone soon enough:

Bangladesh’s leather industry exposes workers and children to toxic hazards

www.pbs.org

And:

America is obsessed with beef. But it has no use for hides, so leather prices plunge

A glut of cowhides has caused leather prices to plummet.

www.latimes.com

As long as it doesn’t contain leather or other animal products, it can be described as vegan. Such clothing, accessories and footwear saw a 54% increase at U.S. retail stores in the first half of 2019, according to Helen Palmer, director of materials at trend forecaster WGSN. Shoes saw the biggest gains, while the decline of leather footwear — which traditionally used about half of the world’s cattle hides — has been especially pronounced.

“Clothing brands are trying to get in line with a more ecologically conscious, younger buyer,” Palmer said. And there’s some star power behind this latest trend: Meghan Markle has been spotted wearing Veja sneakers, which are made from recycled plastic and corn.

[truncated]

The world is changing for the better; please join this transition towards less evil.

Thank you.

 

[UncertainTimes]

Love the seat material. All you need to clean is baby wipes.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

If you actually know what company they sourced the "leather" from, you would know it's actually not cheaper. Leather is cheap.

People on the forum for awhile know what company makes the leather and it is more durable than leather. I can post the name of the company but i'm sure you don't really care.

Quite accurate. It costs Tesla MORE to do the right thing.

Tesla does it anyway.

Source:

www.latimes.com/business/story/2019-08-18/america-is-obsessed-with-beef-but-it-has-no-use-for-hides-so-leather-prices-plunge

"There’s no one bidding, no one trying to buy them,” said Brannan, who has worked in the hide business since 1976.

According to Hidenet, a leather markets research firm, a hide from a branded cow went for as little as $4 the week of July 15, down from as much as $81 just five years ago. Vera Dordick, chief executive officer and publisher of Hidenet, added that it’s not just the U.S. industry that’s suffering.

“It’s a worldwide crisis,” Dordick said. “Some people used to say, ‘We haven’t buried any hides yet.’ Now they can’t say that.”

 

[Huskyfan]

Ah, yes--any facts that disrupt current strongly held beliefs must be "Marketing?"

Recommend clicking through to actually read facts you may create discomfort. Tip: things that make you uncomfortable often indicate growth in intelligence and wisdom.

Embrace it.

From the previous link:

Animal agriculture is responsible for 18 percent of greenhouse gas emissions, more than the combined exhaust from all transportation. ​

"Livestock's Long Shadow: environmental issues and options". Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations. Rome 2006

And:

Livestock and their byproducts account for at least 32,000 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) per year, or 51% of all worldwide greenhouse gas emissions.​

Goodland, R Anhang, J. “Livestock and Climate Change: What if the key actors in climate change were pigs, chickens and cows?”

Goodland, Robert & Anhang, Jeff. "Livestock and Climate Change: What if the key actors in climate change are...cows, pigs and chickens?". WorldWatch. November/December 2009

Hickman, Martin. "Study claims meat creates half of all greenhouse gases". Independent. November 2009

Hyner, Christopher. "A Leading Cause of Everything: One Industry That Is Destroying Our Planet and Our Ability to Thrive on It". Georgetown Environmental Law Review. October 23, 2015. (New)

And:

Methane is 25-100 times more destructive than CO2 on a 20 year time frame.​

Shindell, Drew T, et al. "Improved Attribution of Climate Forcing to Emissions". Science. 326, 716 (2009)

Vaidyanathan, Sayathri. "How Bad of a Greenhouse Gas is Methane? The global warming potential of the gaseous fossil fuel may be consistently underestimated". Scientific American. December 22, 2015.

And so forth.

The critical factor here is how few know of these facts, and how even less take real action, such as transitioning to a plant-based lifestyle. I am shocked that under 10% of the population has eschewed animal flesh at the first half of 2021.

Thus, I encourage everyone to transition to EV's, get solar panels, and stop being part of the problem by no longer eating animal flesh.

"First Principles" and all that . . . .

again, you lecture.

I can dig up counter arguments to your “facts” all day long. You are wasting your time.



That’s the amazing thing about society now. Every argument you pose with so called ”facts” can be countered with other “facts”.

How much does animal agriculture and eating meat contribute to global warming?

<p><span>Animal agriculture is responsible for </span>14<span>–</span>18<span>% of human-caused greenhouse gas emissions globally, and less in developed countries (e.g. </span>6% in the USA<span>). Fossil fuel combustion for energy and transportation is responsible for </span>approximately...

skepticalscience.com

 

[Huskyfan]

Love the seat material. All you need to clean is baby wipes.

thanks. I’ll try baby wipes

 

[zhu-]

Yes, because using the skins of animals, which are treated with toxic chemicals, for seats and more, is "better?"

Recommend a walk-through of used car lot to see how leather looks as a car ages.

Also, suggest a review of these facts will help you understand why MB and other luxury competitors still using animal flesh is a metaphor for their obsolete thinking; they will be gone soon enough:

Bangladesh’s leather industry exposes workers and children to toxic hazards

www.pbs.org

And:

America is obsessed with beef. But it has no use for hides, so leather prices plunge

A glut of cowhides has caused leather prices to plummet.

www.latimes.com

There's cheap leather then there's good leather. Big difference. Also the buyer who cares for leather probably isn't keeping the car long enough to ever see it wear. Unless all leather comes from Bangladesh you're just setting out confirmation bias to support your narrative. A lot of the everyday fabrics used for clothing are also treated with "toxic" chemicals but so far people on Twitter haven't outraged over polyester and countless other materials yet.

 

[jjrandorin]

(moderator note)

There is usually a lot of "passion" around discussing anything that deals with meat / leather here. I had to move some posts because, while they contained some good information, they also contained what amounts to personal attacks. I am not going to go through and edit the posts to remove objectionable personal attacks, so the entire post(s) got moved.

Those of you who had posts moved, please feel free to repost your data, without statements that attack a person, or mention their family, or anything else of that nature. Consider this a general warning that, after this general warning, posts doing so will likely be met with something a bit more than moving posts)

 

[TSLA Pilot]

again, you lecture.

I can dig up counter arguments to your “facts” all day long. You are wasting your time.



That’s the amazing thing about society now. Every argument you pose with so called ”facts” can be countered with other “facts”.

How much does animal agriculture and eating meat contribute to global warming?

<p><span>Animal agriculture is responsible for </span>14<span>–</span>18<span>% of human-caused greenhouse gas emissions globally, and less in developed countries (e.g. </span>6% in the USA<span>). Fossil fuel combustion for energy and transportation is responsible for </span>approximately...

skepticalscience.com

Recommend you click through your own links, so as to post more erudite information for all to know and share . . . .

The other sectors continued to increase their emissions since 1990, including agriculture (12% increase, 2nd largest sector), industrial emissions (180% increase, 4th largest sector), and waste (16% increase, 5th largest sector).

Avoiding the worst climate impacts will require reversing the upwards trend in all sectors and rapidly decreasing emissions to net zero by 2050.

*******************************

Note that ag is the second largest sector . . . so why not just eat plants, instead of plants being raised to then feed to animals?

Look, with all due respect, you live in Seattle, right? Thus, this is a silly thread--you must be aware of the plethora of plant-based and non-animal materials available. Ditto for eating--in 2021, in your city especially, there are likely dozens (hundreds?) of sources of non-animal food and seating materials.

"You either have to be part of the solution, or you're going to be part of the problem."

--Eldridge Cleaver

Please, just drop it; be a part of the solution.

Thank you.