Tesla promoting self-driving video was staged

[BrerBear]

This requires a lot of assumed intentions and speculation. Keep in mind, I’m not assuming the opposite (however one defines what that would be), but rather the website and available disclaimers at the time hedges their bets. I knew I wasn’t buying an autonomous vehicle. I have yet to find an owner that thinks they did.

I’m one of those owners. Based on Tesla’s lies, I believed full FSD was imminent in 2016

 

[DarkandStormy]

I’m one of those owners. Based on Tesla’s lies, I believed full FSD was imminent in 2016

And why wouldn't you seeing as this is what Tesla was telling those early FSD buyers:

 

[johnnycnote]

Wasn't the video about future capabilities? FSD wasn't even an option then

 

[johnnycnote]

And why wouldn't you seeing as this is what Tesla was telling those early FSD buyers:
View attachment 897021

Good point. But people will continue to react on an emotional level no matter what the facts are

If Musk ever walks on water, they'll say that he can't swim

 

[Daniel in SD]

Wasn't the video about future capabilities? FSD wasn't even an option then

It’s the promotional video for FSD Hardware which came out when they started selling the first version of FSD Capability in 2016 (see the capture from the website above). FSD has never been an option, only FSD Capability (which is not capable of FSD! The promotional video is just showing that the hardware is capable, not the software)

 

[YNoVA]

Everything is faked nowadays.

This thread is probably fake

 

[PVia]

My advice: RTFM

 

[BitJam]

There’s also a pattern of many conflating statements and features later on with others from the past. The quote you include here (from 2021) is yet another example of how Tesla has always represented and marketed FSD as a product/software/feature-suite that didn’t yet exist.

PS: Yes, I did include a quote from 2021 as a bit of fluff. But the meat of the matter was the quotes from 2016.

The quote is from the archive.org 2016 page you linked to:

Autopilot

I will quote it yet again:

Build upon Enhanced Autopilot and order Full Self-Driving Capability on your Tesla. This doubles the number of active cameras from four to eight, enabling full self-driving in almost all circumstances, [...]​

​

Crucially, this section uses present tense not future tense.

​

And I say again that the only caveats on that page from 2016 were validation and regulation (and not using FSD for commercial robotaxis). If you don't believe me, please go back to the 2016 archive.org page and read it again. I marked your post with the link informative because, combined with the deposition saying FSD software was not used in the video, it changed my mind on this issue.

I was previously in the camp that held Tesla was always saying it was a future product. That was clear to me when I didn't buy FSD in the summer of '21. But back in 2016 they were promoting FSD as an already working product. This is what makes the faked video so damning.

I won't respond to the rest of your post because it is based on a faulty assumption.

 

[Eno Deb]

I think the worst thing about this video is that the disclaimer at the beginning, as well as Musk's accompanying tweet, are outright lies. If this had been framed as aspirational or a vision, it would be a different story. But it was clearly meant to imply that the functionality already existed when it didn't, and some people spent thousands of dollars or even chose Tesla based on that.

 

[eli_]

Well to be fair, most of the stuff in there they did end up demonstrating 4-6 years later in the FSD beta and today people can play with it on their cars. The only thing they haven't demoed yet is the "parking seek mode", but that's apparently still alive in some form (as of late 2022).

They always added the caveat that the timing of "each element of the functionality" is dependent on local regulations, blah blah. It's always irked me because it's not like regulations are the blocker (at least in the US). The blocker isn't getting a permit, it's 100% on Tesla to get the software developed and validated. They make it sound like the timing is outside Tesla's control.

 

[whitex]

Everything is faked nowadays.

This thread is probably fake

Yee of little imagination. How do you know the world around you is real? Ever seen The Matrix?

 

[whitex]

I think the worst thing about this video is that the disclaimer at the beginning, as well as Musk's accompanying tweet, are outright lies. If this had been framed as aspirational or a vision, it would be a different story. But it was clearly meant to imply that the functionality already existed when it didn't, and some people spent thousands of dollars or even chose Tesla based on that.

Elon does work hard to improve on everything he takes on. In this case, he took on being a car salesman, so he took the use car salesman stereotype and boosted it into the 21st century. He made more money from FSD and other such Tesla feature cons than any car salesman ever made from undercoatings, trim stickers, tracking stickers, extended warranties which only cover things which rarely break and cost less than the deductible, etc.

 

[whitex]

Well to be fair, most of the stuff in there they did end up demonstrating 4-6 years later in the FSD beta and today people can play with it on their cars. The only thing they haven't demoed yet is the "parking seek mode", but that's apparently still alive in some form (as of late 2022).

Not using the car hardware shown in the video, which is what Elon was selling.

They always added the caveat that the timing of "each element of the functionality" is dependent on local regulations, blah blah. It's always irked me because it's not like regulations are the blocker (at least in the US). The blocker isn't getting a permit, it's 100% on Tesla to get the software developed and validated. They make it sound like the timing is outside Tesla's control.

Yea, Elon is an amazing snake oil salesman, knowing how to allude and suggest things without actually committing to anything. Check out things like 700hp (according to Elon, 691hp listed on order page) P85D. Took Tesla 3 years (after they stopped selling that model) to admit that not all of the car is capable of this power, or even close. Same is already happening with FSD, Tesla lawyers are calling it "forward looking aspirational goal" and not a "commitment to deliver specific functionality" in court. The description was written similarly to the P85D, in a sneaky which can be literally interpreted to deliver nothing. I can tell you for sure, all those people who paid for FSD, got FSD capable floor mats, seats, windows, etc. Tesla never actually said the whole car will self drive.

 

[kabin]

I've found a good rule of thumb is any ADAS/autonomous driving video shown faster than 1x playback speed is marketing BS.

 

[Sharps97]

Autopilot was advertised in association with the video in question with an explicit statement that you would have what was shown in December of 2016 with the sole exception being that regulators might not approve of such a solution. Implicit is that the software was done, fully functional, and ready to go other than pending legal review. Employees at the time would have attested to and supported that interpretation explicitly when asked and would refer to that video.

The only thing in dispute is whether or not Tesla should be held accountable in any way for lying.

 

[AndrewZ]

My advice: RTFM

Please post TFM available in 2016.

The website descriptions, manual, etc have all been quietly revised over the years and archived versions of them will 100% be part of any future legal action.

I think if you read between the lines, the engineer testifying here is actually trying to cover his and his team’s behinds by stating the intent of the demo, which was requested by Elon, was only to show potential. The way the video was spun and everything that followed, that wasn’t up to them.

 

[diplomat33]

I do think the legal issue comes from Tesla selling FSD when they knew they had staged a deceptive demo. That opens up Tesla to fraud claims. The fact that Elon told them they would just backfill with production code later shows that his plan was to sell vaporware and just "figure it out" later.

If Tesla had not sold FSD in 2016 and been honest that it was a concept demo of a future product, I think Tesla would have been fine.

 

[eli_]

According to Elluswamy, the demo was “specific to a given route” compared to the production version of the technology, which relied only on input from cameras and sensors. “It used additional pre-mapped information about driving,” he said after telling lawyers that the route the car followed had been previously mapped in 3D. When the video was shot, Elluswamy was an engineer on the team helping with the video.

So in other words, the demo worked like Waymo and dozens of other self-driving startups by using a pre-mapped 3D route instead of figuring it out on-the-fly using vision (like in FSD beta). If they were only selling a robotaxi product they would have been fine.

 

[Daniel in SD]

So in other words, the demo worked like Waymo and dozens of other self-driving startups by using a pre-mapped 3D route instead of figuring it out on-the-fly using vision (like in FSD beta). If they were only selling a robotaxi product they would have been fine.

Why do so many people think Waymo pre-sold rides? Waymo only charges for rides you receive.

 

[diplomat33]

So in other words, the demo worked like Waymo and dozens of other self-driving startups by using a pre-mapped 3D route instead of figuring it out on-the-fly using vision (like in FSD beta). If they were only selling a robotaxi product they would have been fine.

No. What Tesla did in the demo is not what Waymo does. Waymo uses HD maps as a prior. They don't drive just by following premapped routes. Waymo uses camera vision, lidar and radar to drive in real-time, on the fly. Also, Waymo did not stage a demo to sell something that did not exist yet. Waymo developed autonomous driving and only sold rides once they could actually do the rides with no human driver.