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Tesla ranks 2nd worst in Consumer reports reliability survey

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Should these data tell me that Model Y is 3.28 times less reliable than Model 3? I now wonder about the statistical deviation of their data. Do you have any access to more details about their data. How many responses have they collected for Model Y and for other Teslas and other brands?

They’ve collected whatever owners returned. Not that hard to understand.
 
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Because the Mach-E owners that answered the survey questions answered favorably?

What part are people not understanding that all this is based on surveys sent out to currents owners with specific questions? CR didn’t just make this up lol
Right, they make up the questions, and they chose the owners who should be the subscribers of the CR, if I am not mistaken. Wanna know the results of a gender equality survey sampled over members of a men's club?
 
Exactly. Build quality issues are a problem for Tesla for sure, but paint scuffs that the CR fixes before you leave the lot should not be weighted the same as replacing a transmission after 3 years (hello there, Dodge).

Apples to apples, please.

There are reports on these forums of cars dying as well as replacing batteries and motors within a few months of ownership.
That's fair game.
 
Makes sense. They've had time to tune the Model 3 production line, but they still are screwing up a lot of Model Y's, with "end of quarter" builds remaining notoriously rushed and error-prone. And the S/X are so low volume that the line doesn't lend itself to "3 sigma" statistical quality metrics.
Actually, this does not make any sense. Model 3 and Model Y having 3.28 times different reliability is pure b.s.
 
Dude, they use the exact same survey questions for every car and analyze them statistically. It's an impartial survey based on data, rates of problems of different kinds, etc. How is it "biased"? Don't be one of these ridiculous, spittle-flecked, maniacal Tesla Fan Bois.
And I can simply skip Tesla, and show you that CR survey results are utter bull$hit for any other brands. One reason Toyota is always pretty high is that Toyota buyers on average have relatively low expectations of the car compared to, say, Porsche buyers. I owned a Toyota, I have repaired it ... myself.. many times. I sold it at 170k miles when transmission, engine, and coolant leaks were hard to stop, it's 0-60 were closer to 20 seconds, and the wheels were pointing in random directions when driving. But other than that the car hold really well! No panel gaps, no water leaks, no software issues.

And I was complaining about CR and its surveys long before I even considered a Tesla. It's not about Tesla, its' about CR.

Edit: I am so fed up with all the bs analytics poured on consumers these days, that I am toying with doing some analytics myself. If you go, for example, over Mach-E fans forum and collect all the people experiencing major (not panel gaps) issues, then one can extrapolate to the number of sold vehicles to get the Mach-E failure rate at 5% or so of all sold cars, which is a Trabant territory, I guess.

The surveys must be done NOT on selected consumers. It must be done on repair shops information and OEM's parts sales. Analytics ran over Twitter, FB, and forums will provide a more reliable information than CR surveys.
 
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Because the Mach-E owners that answered the survey questions answered favorably?

What part are people not understanding that all this is based on surveys sent out to currents owners with specific questions? CR didn’t just make this up lol
Has anyone here received a survey ? Perhaps they only distribute them at Tesla service centers.
Ok, I’m being facetious but there are many ways to bias an unbiased report
 
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They could also compare how much work was done under warranty and how much was for a fee. How satisfied were customers with the service. How much hassle was it to get repaired, did you need to take a day off work or just the morning, was a curtesy car provided. Does Tesla’s mobile mechanics improve the hassle factor ?
 
No doubt Tesla has experienced growing pains that have been reflected in build quality. But my last ICE car did really poorly on these CR reports, despite being an extraordinarily reliable and pleasant car to own for over 10 years. A big reason CR considered it crap was because of early problems with the upgraded infotaintment system. I didn't have the upgraded infotaintment system in my car, but it was still considered unreliable by CR. So the thing I don't like about the CR methodology is that it seems to consider non-critical systems, while I mostly consider things like drive train when I'm thinking about reliability. You know...will the car start and transport me safely every time I ask it to.
 
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I tried to look up CRs methodology in conducting the poll and how they confirmed people were owners.
i could not find any information.
i like to know how polls are conducted and the actual questions asked before I believe them.

Why is it so important that CR give favorable reviews? I guess this is what I am not understanding. It’s like Car and Drivers top 10 or COTY or NATOY, it’s all garbage. At the end of the day you buy what you want and defend your brand if you choose too. Personally I am glad I have no brand loyalty which makes it easier for me to laugh and move on. People who actually look at CR before making a decision are slowly dying anyway, CR end of times is near.

The most satisfying cars guess who’s on the list?


Should we believe it? Or should we question their methods and come up with a theory that some Tesla fanboy wrote it?
 
I owned a Toyota, I have repaired it ... myself.. many times. I sold it at 170k miles when transmission, engine, and coolant leaks were hard to stop, it's 0-60 were closer to 20 seconds, and the wheels were pointing in random directions when driving. But other than that the car hold really well! No panel gaps, no water leaks, no software issues.
That is a really good data point. Your highly rated Toyota went to 170K miles. My low rated Jeep went to 20K miles before I got rid of it due to transmission and suspension issues.
 
I tried to look up CRs methodology in conducting the poll and how they confirmed people were owners.
i could not find any information.
i like to know how polls are conducted and the actual questions asked before I believe them.
I have filled them out in the past. You have to be a subscriber. They do not verify ownership. The surveys are generally large and ask about all the vehicles you own. I don't have a copy of the questions, unfortunately.
 
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Here are some snapshots of the CR reliability info for a 3 and a Y as well as a few of the vehicles mentioned in the article (Mach E and E-tron). My experience over the years with CR ratings is they are unreliable for 1st year and refreshed model years (got burned buying a refreshed Jetta years ago that CR said was above average reliability). But they do capture owner problem areas pretty well over time. So the transmission that crapped out on our Accord, they had that year model pegged for that. So generally the reliability rankings are only useful for buying a used car, IMHO.

Looking at the early 3 data for my car, they captured the suspension issues which are cropping up as an issue here on the forums, as well as the early rear drive unit failures, which were also reported here. Now, the weightings are always interesting and I am not sure how they feed up to the overall.
 

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There is something to be said about that.... They're extending that to reliably putting together a car that looks like the next one. I have had 0 issues with the car actually driving.

The vast majority of owners of all car brands have had no significant problems with their cars. A few people saying "I've had no problems with mine" is meaningless when discussing reliability overall.

In addition, cars are much more reliable than they used to be. Pointing out that the car somebody had in 1970 was way more unreliable than their Tesla also tells you nothing about the relative reliability of today's cars.

And how can anyone claim an anti-Tesla bias when the most popular Tesla gets a good rating?

Counting trim misalignment as the same as an engine or transmission failure hardly qualifies CA as a reliable source.

Other than one Yahoo article posted upthread, is there any evidence that this is what CU did? Or is this just something that's been claimed in this thread?

Consumers Union?

Are they still around?

I guess they changed their name. Consumers Union was the publisher of Consumer Reports until (unbeknownst to me) Consumers Union changed its name to Consumer Reports.

My apologies for using the old name. I'm an old fart and I still think of them by their old name.
 
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The vast majority of owners of all car brands have had no significant problems with their cars. A few people saying "I've had no problems with mine" is meaningless when discussing reliability overall.

In addition, cars are much more reliable than they used to be. Pointing out that the car somebody had in 1970 was way more unreliable than their Tesla also tells you nothing about the relative reliability of today's cars.

And how can anyone claim an anti-Tesla bias when the most popular Tesla gets a good rating?



Other than one Yahoo article posted upthread, is there any evidence that this is what CU did? Or is this just something that's been claimed in this thread?



I guess they changed their name. Consumers Union was the publisher of Consumer Reports until (unbeknownst to me) Consumers Union changed its name to Consumer Reports.

My apologies for using the old name. I'm an old fart and I still think of them by their old name.
You must be ancient because CR was called CR since 1936. LOL

Yes I know the owner used to be called Consumer Union. I'm just funnin.

But seriously without understanding how the poll is conducted and the actual questions I give zero weight to these polls.
 
But seriously without understanding how the poll is conducted and the actual questions I give zero weight to these polls.
Yeah, I wish I still had a copy of their surveys I have filled out in the past.

Only info I could find about their methods was some general info Consumer Reports' Car Reliability FAQ

That FAQ matches what I recall of the survey, it asked me what cars I owned, if I had issues with them, then drilled down to specifics if I did report having issues. They did include those definitions in the FAQ in the survey, plus there were free form text boxes where I could expand on issues in addition to the general radio button type questions.
 
You must be ancient because CR was called CR since 1936. LOL

Yes I know the owner used to be called Consumer Union. I'm just funnin.

But seriously without understanding how the poll is conducted and the actual questions I give zero weight to these polls.
Actually, the magazine has been called Consumer Reports for decades. Consumers Union officially changed its name to Consumer Reports in 2012 because that’s what everyone recognized and knew them as anyway. Since the only thing people saw was the name on the magazine, I’m sure not many noticed.

As others have said above, they send a survey to all of their subscribers that is volunatarily returned. The raw numbers and statistics are applied uniformly, so any claim of bias in the statistical portion of their reports is simply being defensive. They do write reviews that are subjective, but those are a different matter.

As far as the validity goes, like any survey it is limited by the sampled population (CR subscribers) and sample size. If they get 50,000 surveys back and only 3 people have Model Ys then it’s hard to draw firm conclusions.

If you actually look at the full reliability report, they do separate out the different components, you just need to look past the top line. Specifically, they said the climate system, paint & trim, body integrity, and body hardware were much worse than average. Power equipment was worse than average. Virtually everything else was much better than average. The problem is, a new car should have no problems, so those areas are more than enough to sink the final rating. Also, if you look at the final ratings, I don’t think anyone would disagree with the problem areas. They’re all well described and well known. They’re also not terribly surprising for a relatively new car maker with a brand new model. The good news is, they seem to be improving.

Most of the trashing on this thread seems to be more about people who like their cars getting defensive about someone saying they have problems.
 
Some people were locked of their Teslas yesterday
Actually, the magazine has been called Consumer Reports for decades. Consumers Union officially changed its name to Consumer Reports in 2012 because that’s what everyone recognized and knew them as anyway. Since the only thing people saw was the name on the magazine, I’m sure not many noticed.

As others have said above, they send a survey to all of their subscribers that is volunatarily returned. The raw numbers and statistics are applied uniformly, so any claim of bias in the statistical portion of their reports is simply being defensive. They do write reviews that are subjective, but those are a different matter.

As far as the validity goes, like any survey it is limited by the sampled population (CR subscribers) and sample size. If they get 50,000 surveys back and only 3 people have Model Ys then it’s hard to draw firm conclusions.

If you actually look at the full reliability report, they do separate out the different components, you just need to look past the top line. Specifically, they said the climate system, paint & trim, body integrity, and body hardware were much worse than average. Power equipment was worse than average. Virtually everything else was much better than average. The problem is, a new car should have no problems, so those areas are more than enough to sink the final rating. Also, if you look at the final ratings, I don’t think anyone would disagree with the problem areas. They’re all well described and well known. They’re also not terribly surprising for a relatively new car maker with a brand new model. The good news is, they seem to be improving.

Most of the trashing on this thread seems to be more about people who like their cars getting defensive about someone saying they have problems.
so all the respondents are self selecting. Always a bad start to a survey.