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Tesla ranks 2nd worst in Consumer reports reliability survey

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Or maybe CR chose not to consider certain data points?

But they chose to consider all data points here?


Has anyone ever considered that bad reports are good for Tesla to motivate them to improve their product? Although, I guess Tesla already knows people will buy their cars whether they fix their issues or not.
 
so all the respondents are self selecting. Always a bad start to a survey.
Agreed - not the best, but to a certain extent that’s always the case right? You can’t force people to respond to a survey. At the same time, there are precious few decent surveys of automotive reliability, particularly longer term. The most commonly reported JD Power survey looks at ‘initial quality,’ which is essentially how the car arrives from the factory. (Tesla would probably fail this.) THe problem is, that is really looking at manufacturing quality control, not actual design. Most of us are annoyed if we have to take the car back to get a few minor issues fixed but are more interested in long term reliability. One also needs to realize that it’s impossible to have any long term reliability data on a car that’s one year old. In any model, the best you can do is assume that the new models will follow the pattern of previous years. For the Model Y you‘ve got no history at all.

Look at other ‘reliability’ scores on the web and I challenge you to find anything better for long term data. From what I can tell, the J.D. power survey doesn’t even disclose its methods. Despite its flaws CR is probably about the best out there.
 
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Actually, the magazine has been called Consumer Reports for decades. Consumers Union officially changed its name to Consumer Reports in 2012 because that’s what everyone recognized and knew them as anyway. Since the only thing people saw was the name on the magazine, I’m sure not many noticed.

As others have said above, they send a survey to all of their subscribers that is volunatarily returned. The raw numbers and statistics are applied uniformly, so any claim of bias in the statistical portion of their reports is simply being defensive. They do write reviews that are subjective, but those are a different matter.

As far as the validity goes, like any survey it is limited by the sampled population (CR subscribers) and sample size. If they get 50,000 surveys back and only 3 people have Model Ys then it’s hard to draw firm conclusions.

If you actually look at the full reliability report, they do separate out the different components, you just need to look past the top line. Specifically, they said the climate system, paint & trim, body integrity, and body hardware were much worse than average. Power equipment was worse than average. Virtually everything else was much better than average. The problem is, a new car should have no problems, so those areas are more than enough to sink the final rating. Also, if you look at the final ratings, I don’t think anyone would disagree with the problem areas. They’re all well described and well known. They’re also not terribly surprising for a relatively new car maker with a brand new model. The good news is, they seem to be improving.

Most of the trashing on this thread seems to be more about people who like their cars getting defensive about someone saying they have problems.

They need to show the readers the raw data from the surveys for anyone to make a meaningful conclusion with regards to reliability. What exactly is the power equipment? Body integrity? What part of the body are they talking about? What body hardware are they talking about? Are they talking about the structural integrity? Should I pass up this vehicle because a body panel might be out of alignment, an issue that's usually an easy fix?

The Mach-E has had recalls for the glass roof and windshield. They've had and continue to have thermal issues. They continue to have software problems that can disable the cars on the freeway. And of course PAAK. And these issues are not reflected in the data. They mention 'in car electronics', but what exactly are they talking about?

This is the reason why CR's data, as formatted for the reader, is next to useless.
 
But they chose to consider all data points here?
Highly unlikely, if their formatting is like what's already posted. Like I said before, it doesn't matter whether Tesla is at the top or bottom. Their reports are close to useless.


Has anyone ever considered that bad reports are good for Tesla to motivate them to improve their product? Although, I guess Tesla already knows people will buy their cars whether they fix their issues or not.
Considering how much Tesla is selling, the buyers aren't paying any mind to CR's BS reliability scores, and for good reason.
 
Agreed - not the best, but to a certain extent that’s always the case right? You can’t force people to respond to a survey. At the same time, there are precious few decent surveys of automotive reliability, particularly longer term. The most commonly reported JD Power survey looks at ‘initial quality,’ which is essentially how the car arrives from the factory. (Tesla would probably fail this.) THe problem is, that is really looking at manufacturing quality control, not actual design. Most of us are annoyed if we have to take the car back to get a few minor issues fixed but are more interested in long term reliability. One also needs to realize that it’s impossible to have any long term reliability data on a car that’s one year old. In any model, the best you can do is assume that the new models will follow the pattern of previous years. For the Model Y you‘ve got no history at all.

Look at other ‘reliability’ scores on the web and I challenge you to find anything better for long term data. From what I can tell, the J.D. power survey doesn’t even disclose its methods. Despite its flaws CR is probably about the best out there.
Yes, I agree. Most of us here (anecdotally) are here because the legacy car makes have failed us (or their independent dealerships have). So we get defensive for sure. And old world automobile journalists, magazines and journals etc are just part of an unholy alliance with manufacturers. The automotive equivalent of the Military-Industry Complex (I guess that makes Elon our Ike). So we don’t trust them and prefer to trust our eyes, our experience and word of mouth
 
The most satisfying cars guess who’s on the list?


Should we believe it? Or should we question their methods and come up with a theory that some Tesla fanboy wrote it?
Yes, I would argue that "something's very wrong with this horse". Without mentioning Tesla, Lincolns are both very satisfying and least reliable according to CR. This makes no sense. Considering that CR is most likely pooped out the results out of the very same surveys, we can safely conclude that either
1) CR respondents are finding pleasure in torture (aka masochists) or
2) CR respondents don't give a $hit about some of the reliability categories that CR gives a lot of relative weight.
 
My model X (2017, HW 2.5, see sig) is the most unreliable car I've ever owned. Its visited the service center more in my 4 years of ownership than my 3 previous ICE cars that I purchased new (1 VW, 2 priuses), and that includes routine maintenance on the ICE vehicles. Of the top of my head, its been to the service center for:

  • Tow package "forgotten" and left to be installed by service center
  • improperly aligned falcon wing doors leading to wind noise, water intrusion.
  • falcon wing doors that refused to open at times
  • Fogging passenger side window caused by the front most "triangle" window being installed improperly
  • first half shaft replacement
  • MCU2 upgrade to be ready for the FSD beta that I still don't have
  • alignment after uneven tire wear destroyed tires due to service center advice to run in "low" mode to prolong half-shaft life (tire shop could not align a Tesla)
  • fogging A pillar camera leading to auto-pilot issues on cold, sunny days after rain the previous day
  • second half shaft replacement
  • squeaking ball joints, which Tesla wants $1k to fix. Not happy, as it started literally the DAY my 4 year warranty expired, and Tesla refuses to budge on replacement costs.
In the same 4 year period, both Prius had gotten yearly service (oil change) and random maintenance and had been to the dealer roughly 1/2 as much. Nothing EVER broke on them in the first 4 years. Granted, I paid roughly $100/visit, but that $400 doesn't come close to the $1k these ball joints are going to cost me. Or the $2k that MCU2 cost me. Which really irritates me, considering I got it so I'd be prepared for FSD, and I still haven't gotten the beta yet with a 97 safety score.

When something finally did go wrong on the first prius (hybrid battery failure), the car was just out of warranty, and the dealer went to bat and got Toyota to cover the cost of the replacement.

So as far as I'm concerned, my Tesla is the least reliable car I've owned. The ball joints, combined with the holdback of the FSD beta based on safety score has angered me so much that my next car will almost certainly not be a Tesla.
 
They need to show the readers the raw data from the surveys for anyone to make a meaningful conclusion with regards to reliability. What exactly is the power equipment? Body integrity? What part of the body are they talking about? What body hardware are they talking about? Are they talking about the structural integrity? Should I pass up this vehicle because a body panel might be out of alignment, an issue that's usually an easy fix?

The Mach-E has had recalls for the glass roof and windshield. They've had and continue to have thermal issues. They continue to have software problems that can disable the cars on the freeway. And of course PAAK. And these issues are not reflected in the data. They mention 'in car electronics', but what exactly are they talking about?

This is the reason why CR's data, as formatted for the reader, is next to useless.
Show me one other reliability survey that gives people access to the raw data. CR Is no different than anyone else in this regard. They do explain what the categories are, though.

The Mach E is a new car and deliveries were just starting when the survey was conducted. Many of the issues have started arising since then so it's very possible that the survey missed all of the problems because of its timing. I suspect that in next year's will look different.

Not everything is a conspiracy, you know.
 
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Show me one other reliability survey that gives people access to the raw data.
Hence the reason why I generally put little trust in these surveys. The data I've found useful is actual warranty statistics from publications like Warranty Week that collect their data directly from the manufacturers. They may not share the raw data, but, IMO, the number of warranty repairs is a better indicator of quality than what CR puts out. WW has made reference to CR and JDP in their newsletters, but their warranty statistics speak volumes.

The Mach E is a new car and deliveries were just starting when the survey was conducted. Many of the issues have started arising since then so it's very possible that the survey missed all of the problems because of its timing. I suspect that in next year's will look different.
PAAK and the thermal issues as well as other software issues were being reported from day1. But let's say you're right, what good is the data? Why not wait till the car matures to send out surveys?
Not everything is a conspiracy, you know.
True, but bias is real when it comes to publications that depend on donations and ad revenue.
 
Hold on, let me go get my surprised face.
CR lost me back in 1974. A review of my Fiat x1/9 was brutal. Apparently, they assigned a fat guy who drove a Buick Electra 225 to review it; claimed if he manuevered away from something in the street, he may find himself on someone's front lawn. Imagine, a guy who can't handle a sports car? Everything else was totally subjective and negative, despite the specifications listed with a 39 MPG rating! No mention. Most fun I've had with a car until our Model 3 P.
 
Hence the reason why I generally put little trust in these surveys. The data I've found useful is actual warranty statistics from publications like Warranty Week that collect their data directly from the manufacturers. They may not share the raw data, but, IMO, the number of warranty repairs is a better indicator of quality than what CR puts out. WW has made reference to CR and JDP in their newsletters, but their warranty statistics speak volumes.


PAAK and the thermal issues as well as other software issues were being reported from day1. But let's say you're right, what good is the data? Why not wait till the car matures to send out surveys?

True, but bias is real when it comes to publications that depend on donations and ad revenue.
So what does Warranty Week show about Tesla related to other manufacturers?
 
I actually agree with all the other ranking as I owned many of those. Lexus, in my book, is #1. They are on a different level of amazing. Mini is probably the worst of all the cars I owned. I can't tell about Tesla yet, as both of my cars are only 3.5 to 4 years old. Most of my cars do not have too many problem until after 4 years, and so far both got some minor problems. Model X's auto door won't open (fixed twice) and display got yellow ring (fixed). Model 3 got the A/C smell, display yellow ring, both not fixed yet. It was a Lexus, I would have taken it in to fix immediate as they provide you same day service and free loaner Lexus car of your choice. With Tesla, I just don't know how long it would take and the Uber credit doesn't help much as my commute is 135 miles roundtrip. I have to take a vacation when I have to take my Tesla in to fix anything.
 
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I actually agree with all the other ranking as I owned many of those. Lexus, in my book, is #1. They are on a different level of amazing. Mini is probably the worst of all the cars I owned. I can't tell about Tesla yet, as both of my cars are only 3.5 to 4 years old. Most of my cars do not have too many problem until after 4 years, and so far both got some minor problems. Model X's auto door won't open (fixed twice) and display got yellow ring (fixed). Model 3 got the A/C smell, display yellow ring, both not fixed yet. It was a Lexus, I would have taken it in to fix immediate as they provide you same day service and free loaner Lexus car of your choice. With Tesla, I just don't know how long it would take and the Uber credit doesn't help much as my commute is 135 miles roundtrip. I have to take a vacation when I have to take my Tesla in to fix anything.
what's 'yellow ring'?
 
I actually agree with all the other ranking as I owned many of those. Lexus, in my book, is #1. They are on a different level of amazing. Mini is probably the worst of all the cars I owned. I can't tell about Tesla yet, as both of my cars are only 3.5 to 4 years old. Most of my cars do not have too many problem until after 4 years, and so far both got some minor problems. Model X's auto door won't open (fixed twice) and display got yellow ring (fixed). Model 3 got the A/C smell, display yellow ring, both not fixed yet. It was a Lexus, I would have taken it in to fix immediate as they provide you same day service and free loaner Lexus car of your choice. With Tesla, I just don't know how long it would take and the Uber credit doesn't help much as my commute is 135 miles roundtrip. I have to take a vacation when I have to take my Tesla in to fix anything.
A/c smell is a common problem with all cars and not a defect
 
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What exactly is the power equipment? Body integrity? What part of the body are they talking about? What body hardware are they talking about? Are they talking about the structural integrity? Should I pass up this vehicle because a body panel might be out of alignment, an issue that's usually an easy fix?

The Mach-E has had recalls for the glass roof and windshield. They've had and continue to have thermal issues. They continue to have software problems that can disable the cars on the freeway. And of course PAAK. And these issues are not reflected in the data. They mention 'in car electronics', but what exactly are they talking about?
They do define all those terms on their website and in the survey. As far as recalls, they don't count them if that was the only reason for the issue. So I guess my power steering bolts failing on our S (stranding event) would still count even though there was a recall. Those Mach E issues might not be counting if the owner didn't experience a failure. That would apply to Tesla too.


"
How Are the Surveys Conducted?
Consumer Reports’ Survey Research Department conducts multiple Auto Surveys each year asking about reliability as well as satisfaction. For reliability, we ask members to note any problems with their vehicles that occurred in the previous 12 months. They are asked to identify problems that they considered serious (because of cost, failure, safety, or downtime). We ask them to include problems covered by warranty, but not the ones resulting from accident damage or due solely to recall. Respondents check off problems from a list of trouble areas, ranging from the engine and transmission to climate system, brakes, electrical system, and power accessories. They also tell us in writing (verbatim) specifically what their experiences were to help us understand precisely what problems they are having. (See the full list of trouble spots below.)



What Do the Trouble Areas Cover?
Our Reliability History charts cover problems in any of 17 trouble areas. Here’s a look at what’s covered in each of those areas, listed in order of mechanical and more serious problems first:

ENGINE (or ELECTRIC MOTOR), MAJOR: Engine or electric motor rebuild or replacement, cylinder head, head gasket, turbocharger or supercharger, timing chain or belt.

ENGINE (or ELECTRIC MOTOR), MINOR: Accessory belts and pulleys, engine computer, engine mounts, engine knock or ping, electric motor malfunction, fuel leaks, oil leaks.

ENGINE COOLING: Radiator, cooling fan, water pump, thermostat, antifreeze leaks, overheating.

TRANSMISSION, MAJOR: Transmission rebuild or replacement, torque converter, premature clutch replacement.

TRANSMISSION, MINOR: Gear selector and linkage, transmission computer, transmission sensor or solenoid, clutch adjustment, rough shifting, slipping transmission, leaks.

DRIVE SYSTEM: Driveshaft or axle, CV joint, differential, transfer case, four-wheel-drive/all-wheel-drive components, driveline vibration, electrical failure, traction control, electronic stability control.

FUEL SYSTEM/EMISSIONS: Sensors (O₂, or oxygen, sensor), emission-control devices (includes EGR), fuel-injection system, fuel gauge/sender, fuel pump, problems filling up the tank.

ELECTRICAL (or CHARGING) SYSTEM: Alternator, starter, hybrid/electric battery replacement, hybrid/electric battery related systems, regular battery, battery cables, engine harness, coil, ignition switch, electronic ignition, spark plugs and wires failure, auto stop/start, electric vehicle charging.

CLIMATE SYSTEM: AC compressor, blower (fan) motor, condenser, evaporator, heater system, automatic climate system, electrical failure, refrigerant leakage.

SUSPENSION/STEERING: Shocks or struts, ball joints, tie rods, wheel bearings, alignment, steering linkage (includes rack and pinion), power steering (pumps and hoses, leaks), wheel balance, springs or torsion bars, bushings, electronic or air suspension.

BRAKES: Antilock system, parking brake, master cylinder, calipers, rotors, pulsation or vibration, squeaking, brake failure, premature wear, regenerative braking.

EXHAUST: Muffler, pipes, catalytic converter, exhaust manifold, heat shields, leaks.

PAINT/TRIM: Paint (fading, chalking, peeling, or cracking), loose interior or exterior trim or moldings, rust.

BODY INTEGRITY (Noises/leaks): Squeaks, rattles, wind noises, seals and/or weather stripping, air and water leaks.

BODY HARDWARE: Windows, locks and latches, doors or sliding doors, tailgate, trunk or hatch, mirrors, seat controls (power or manual), seat belts, sunroof, convertible top, glass defect.

POWER EQUIPMENT AND ACCESSORIES: Cruise control, clock, warning lights, body control module, keyless entry, wiper motor or washer, tire pressure monitor, interior or exterior lights, horn, gauges, 12V power plug, USB port, alarm or security system, remote engine start, heated or cooled seats, heated steering wheel, headlights, automatic headlights.

IN-CAR ELECTRONICS: CD player, rear entertainment system (rear screen or DVD player), radio, speakers, in-dash GPS, display screen freezes or goes blank, phone pairing (e.g., Bluetooth), voice control commands, steering wheel controls, portable music device interface (e.g., iPod/MP3 player), backup or other camera/sensors, Android Auto/Apple CarPlay, infotainment hardware replacement and software over-the-air fixes.

Are All Problems Considered Equally Serious?
Engine major, engine cooling, transmission major, and drive system problems are more likely to take a car out of service and to be more expensive to repair than the other problem areas. Consequently, we weight these areas more heavily in our calculations of model year overall reliability verdict. Problems such as broken trim and in-car electronics have a much smaller weight. Problems in any area can be an expense and a bother, though, so we report them all in the reliability history charts.
 
They do define all those terms on their website and in the survey. As far as recalls, they don't count them if that was the only reason for the issue. So I guess my power steering bolts failing on our S (stranding event) would still count even though there was a recall. Those Mach E issues might not be counting if the owner didn't experience a failure. That would apply to Tesla too.


"
How Are the Surveys Conducted?
Consumer Reports’ Survey Research Department conducts multiple Auto Surveys each year asking about reliability as well as satisfaction. For reliability, we ask members to note any problems with their vehicles that occurred in the previous 12 months. They are asked to identify problems that they considered serious (because of cost, failure, safety, or downtime). We ask them to include problems covered by warranty, but not the ones resulting from accident damage or due solely to recall. Respondents check off problems from a list of trouble areas, ranging from the engine and transmission to climate system, brakes, electrical system, and power accessories. They also tell us in writing (verbatim) specifically what their experiences were to help us understand precisely what problems they are having. (See the full list of trouble spots below.)



What Do the Trouble Areas Cover?
Our Reliability History charts cover problems in any of 17 trouble areas. Here’s a look at what’s covered in each of those areas, listed in order of mechanical and more serious problems first:

ENGINE (or ELECTRIC MOTOR), MAJOR: Engine or electric motor rebuild or replacement, cylinder head, head gasket, turbocharger or supercharger, timing chain or belt.

ENGINE (or ELECTRIC MOTOR), MINOR: Accessory belts and pulleys, engine computer, engine mounts, engine knock or ping, electric motor malfunction, fuel leaks, oil leaks.

ENGINE COOLING: Radiator, cooling fan, water pump, thermostat, antifreeze leaks, overheating.

TRANSMISSION, MAJOR: Transmission rebuild or replacement, torque converter, premature clutch replacement.

TRANSMISSION, MINOR: Gear selector and linkage, transmission computer, transmission sensor or solenoid, clutch adjustment, rough shifting, slipping transmission, leaks.

DRIVE SYSTEM: Driveshaft or axle, CV joint, differential, transfer case, four-wheel-drive/all-wheel-drive components, driveline vibration, electrical failure, traction control, electronic stability control.

FUEL SYSTEM/EMISSIONS: Sensors (O₂, or oxygen, sensor), emission-control devices (includes EGR), fuel-injection system, fuel gauge/sender, fuel pump, problems filling up the tank.

ELECTRICAL (or CHARGING) SYSTEM: Alternator, starter, hybrid/electric battery replacement, hybrid/electric battery related systems, regular battery, battery cables, engine harness, coil, ignition switch, electronic ignition, spark plugs and wires failure, auto stop/start, electric vehicle charging.

CLIMATE SYSTEM: AC compressor, blower (fan) motor, condenser, evaporator, heater system, automatic climate system, electrical failure, refrigerant leakage.

SUSPENSION/STEERING: Shocks or struts, ball joints, tie rods, wheel bearings, alignment, steering linkage (includes rack and pinion), power steering (pumps and hoses, leaks), wheel balance, springs or torsion bars, bushings, electronic or air suspension.

BRAKES: Antilock system, parking brake, master cylinder, calipers, rotors, pulsation or vibration, squeaking, brake failure, premature wear, regenerative braking.

EXHAUST: Muffler, pipes, catalytic converter, exhaust manifold, heat shields, leaks.

PAINT/TRIM: Paint (fading, chalking, peeling, or cracking), loose interior or exterior trim or moldings, rust.

BODY INTEGRITY (Noises/leaks): Squeaks, rattles, wind noises, seals and/or weather stripping, air and water leaks.

BODY HARDWARE: Windows, locks and latches, doors or sliding doors, tailgate, trunk or hatch, mirrors, seat controls (power or manual), seat belts, sunroof, convertible top, glass defect.

POWER EQUIPMENT AND ACCESSORIES: Cruise control, clock, warning lights, body control module, keyless entry, wiper motor or washer, tire pressure monitor, interior or exterior lights, horn, gauges, 12V power plug, USB port, alarm or security system, remote engine start, heated or cooled seats, heated steering wheel, headlights, automatic headlights.

IN-CAR ELECTRONICS: CD player, rear entertainment system (rear screen or DVD player), radio, speakers, in-dash GPS, display screen freezes or goes blank, phone pairing (e.g., Bluetooth), voice control commands, steering wheel controls, portable music device interface (e.g., iPod/MP3 player), backup or other camera/sensors, Android Auto/Apple CarPlay, infotainment hardware replacement and software over-the-air fixes.

Are All Problems Considered Equally Serious?
Engine major, engine cooling, transmission major, and drive system problems are more likely to take a car out of service and to be more expensive to repair than the other problem areas. Consequently, we weight these areas more heavily in our calculations of model year overall reliability verdict. Problems such as broken trim and in-car electronics have a much smaller weight. Problems in any area can be an expense and a bother, though, so we report them all in the reliability history charts.
Thank you for posting that. They say they weight the seriousness of the problem but report everything. So Teslas must have an awful lot of trim falling off to be rated lower than other cars with engine and gearbox failures 😀
 
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With a single model that checks all of those boxes, Tesla Motors has built a rabid following since the car’s 2012 launch, reflected in 98 percent of Model S owners saying they would definitely purchase it again. Not only is the Tesla roomy, comfortable, and a lot of fun to drive, but it also has low operating costs—returning the equivalent of 84 mpg (a consolation, of sorts, for the car’s $90,000-plus price).

One of the CR reports showed
Tesla # 1,2,4,10 -- 40% of the 10 cars listed
Model S, Model 3, Model Y, Model X --- may have been the models .... warning - memory.
 
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Thank you for posting that. They say they weight the seriousness of the problem but report everything. So Teslas must have an awful lot of trim falling off to be rated lower than other cars with engine and gearbox failures 😀
Well, Tesla is pretty infamous for their suspension issues, so I think those should count too. And it appears the Model 3 is not immune as that fleet ages, so I expect that to continue to be an issue. Plus it's not like drive units haven't been historically problematic. And older Model S batteries are starting to fail now, so you have that as well.

Teslas problems aren't just misaligned panels and rattles. Not sure why folks have that idea. All those larger issues are discussed widely here.