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Tesla ranks 2nd worst in Consumer reports reliability survey

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Where do the GM volts and bolts line up that you can’t park in a garage……for fear of explosions .

Consumer reports is known for being sketchy……but who knows.

For sure Tesla needs some improvements. I’m not impressed with the paint, but that’s about it as far as quality issues I’ve noticed. For a 60k car my M3P interior could be a little nicer but it’s certain better than any GM and it as good as my SRT Jeep was. For the money mopar SRT is crap (but great driving cars and I love them). No Tesla isn’t Porsche quality yet. Almost no one is. Problem is if a Porsche does break……you need to refinance your house.

Tesla is the new guy to knock down, so while they need to listen more, Elon needs to listen, every little thing is held against the brand with a higher expectation that other manufacturers.
 
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Reliability isn’t a big thing anymore, when the service comes to your house and with OTA updates. Also usually issues are not preventing you completely from driving.

The abundance of features, great driving experience and high safety scores compensate for that.

CR is unbiased in my belief, they are just stuck in the past where reliability often was a huge factor. And it might still is for some people, so this is good reporting.
 
Didn't have time to read the whole thing yet. Thanks for posting, though. This from the second paragraph in the article you linked:

It was the first time Tesla was profiled for the survey. Even with the poor ranking, J.D. Power notes that it's not an official ranking because the company doesn't meet all the criteria to be measured.

And yet. They published it anyway. :rolleyes: How many people will see that?

And, it's an initial quality survey, and not a "reliability" survey.

But it's still a survey, subject to all of the potential issues brought up previously for CR.

According to the JD power folks, they couldn’t do a full survey because Tesla doesn’t allow them to contact customers in 15 states. So they based it on owners in the other states.

“Unlike other manufacturers, Tesla doesn’t grant us permission to survey its owners in 15 states where it is required,” said JD Power’s Doug Betts. “However, we were able to collect a large enough sample of surveys from owners in the other 35 states and, from that base, we calculated Tesla’s score.”

So Tesla’s JD Power rankings will always be based on incomplete data unless Tesla decides they care enough about the ranking to allow a full survey.

California is apparently one of the missing states, so a potential large group of owners. Why won’t Tesla participate in the J.D. Power quality survey?
 
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Good they got my survey! Had to pay for two MCU's out of pocket after 7 cache dump visits, can't get an appointment for a month in my state, get sent out of state for a repair only to find out they didn't order the part (3rd visit for same issue, now at 3 different SC's, still not fixed, scheduled me at the same out of state SC for the follow-up appointment - idiots), broken aft control arm, had to repair myself... they earned the bottom slot. They want me to order a Plaid... blahhhhhhhhahahahhaaaa...no way...
 
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Where do the GM volts and bolts line up that you can’t park in a garage……for fear of explosions


Poorly:

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343EBAB6-359D-41F4-AF00-58AA3C3F6E1A.jpeg
 
According to the JD power folks, they couldn’t do a full survey because Tesla doesn’t allow them to contact customers in 15 states. So they based it on owners in the other states.

“Unlike other manufacturers, Tesla doesn’t grant us permission to survey its owners in 15 states where it is required,” said JD Power’s Doug Betts. “However, we were able to collect a large enough sample of surveys from owners in the other 35 states and, from that base, we calculated Tesla’s score.”

So Tesla’s JD Power rankings will always be based on incomplete data unless Tesla decides they care enough about the ranking to allow a full survey.

California is apparently one of the missing states, so a potential large group of owners. Why won’t Tesla participate in the J.D. Power quality survey?

Perhaps this is the issue (See the highlight included with my link). And yes, perhaps Elon Musk doesn't care to play the game. They don't advertise, either.
 
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Good they got my survey! Had to pay for two MCU's out of pocket after 7 cache dump visits, can't get an appointment for a month in my state, get sent out of state for a repair only to find out they didn't order the part (3rd visit for same issue, now at 3 different SC's, still not fixed, scheduled me at the same out of state SC for the follow-up appointment - idiots), broken aft control arm, had to repair myself... they earned the bottom slot. They want me to order a Plaid... blahhhhhhhhahahahhaaaa...no way...
Weird. I just checked and was able to book an appointment by Dec 7 in Fairfax county VA at sterling service center. Maybe they just expanded the times.

Why do you keep it? It seems you have extremely bad luck with them and causes you grief.
 
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Perhaps this is the issue (See the highlight included with my link). And yes, perhaps Elon Musk doesn't care to play the game. They don't advertise, either.

Good find. Tesla does not need JD Power or CR. The cars speak for themselves and sales aren't a problem.
 
And this is not useful to anyone about to purchase a car. So Joe Schmoe chooses a car based on this rating and within 6 months to a year starts having issues. How did they help?
Of course it's useful. If you don't have reliability data for a specific model then the data for the brand as a whole at least gives an indication of what to expect until model-specific data is available.

Given the type of data collected, publishing their data set would make their conclusions more meaningful. Whether others publish theirs is irrelevant.

Body hardware? What body part specifically. Climate system? What is the actual issue with the climate system? It could be something as simple as being difficult to use. Noises and leaks? Where are the noises coming from? Are they interior, exterior? Where are the leaks? What is leaking? Are the leaks from rain? Battery coolant? Yes, those things matter. A noise from the suspension is more concerning than a squeak from the dashboard for example.
To quote Al Pacino, "we got a moron here!"
CR lists the specific components included in each of their categories. I know that's not helpful to you because that might legitimize CR's ratings, but if it's there if you actually bother to look.
All Trustees don't give the same amount. For all we know Ford could be the biggest contributor. As far as historically having no evidence they favor Ford, I'd have to verify that myself which I'm not going to waste any time on.

Also, the cars Ford would be interested in pumping up ratings wise, would be their EVs, and heavy sellers, or the new models they expect high sales with.
More nonsense without bothering to look. The trustees do not fund a foundation. They oversee it. Do you have any actual evidence here or are you just trying to be better and conspiracy theories than Mike Lindell?
I ignore them because their conclusions are misleading as I said before. Here's their recent recommended list:

This year 22 models have improved their reliability to average or better. This, coupled with the accompanying improvement in their Overall Score, allows them to be recommended for the 2022 model year. They are the Acura MDX, Acura RDX, Acura TLX, Audi Q7, BMW X3, Chevrolet Blazer, Chevrolet TrailBlazer, Chevrolet Traverse, Ford Bronco Sport, Ford Mustang Mach-E, Ford Ranger, Genesis G70, Honda Odyssey, Honda Passport, Infiniti QX50, Kia Niro EV, Nissan Rogue Sport, Ram 1500, Volkswagen Atlas, Volkswagen Atlas Cross Sport, Volkswagen Jetta, and Volvo XC60.

Source: 12 Cars Lose Consumer Reports' Recommendation Due to Reliability Issues

If they could be so wrong about the Mustang Mach-E, what else are they wrong about? Someone can correct me, but is the Ford Bronco Sport even a full year in existence yet? The Mach-E isn't, yet according to them they 'improved' their reliability to average or better. Most readers would just buy that at face value even though we know it's BS.

And you still ask why they're ignored?

Do they get everything wrong? No, but even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Except on the forum the reader would know exactly what part is problematic and can make a more informed decision. They'll also see that the more serious issues are rare and that the car is safe to purchase.

John5520 responded well, but just let me ask you a couple of questions.

Why is it OK with you that they use other models and years to assess reliability? Would it be fair to predict rust problems with Toyotas based on the experience I had on my 1970 LandCruiser? You do not know what sources they used to generate these ratings any more than I do.
Except they don't use a 1970 land cruiser. You just state they do to throw a straw man argument. They actually state exactly what they base their reliability ratings on.
"No one publishes their data," so that means the ratings they generate are meaningful? Is that what you are saying? It wouldn't matter to you if they only surveyed one person to come up with their information? Apparently, you have a low bar. I happen to care about such things, having worked in medical quality for over 20 years. Ratings should be evidence based and subject to scientific rigor, or they should be regarded with a jaundiced eye.
No, you say they can't be trusted because they don't publish their data. I simply pointed out that their practice is consistent with every other car rating site I've seen. They do publish their methods which is better than most sites. They also have models for which they don't give a rating because they don't have enough data.
I did read the full report. Thanks for assuming I did not. They described their methodology in broad terms and the devil is always in the details which they omitted despite your elaborate defense.

It hasn't been established at all that satisfaction and reliability have nothing in common. Please don't ask me to believe you think that. I certainly would not be completely satisfied with an unreliable car, and I doubt that I know anyone who would be. Are you trolling?
Where did I say reliability and satisfaction have nothing in common. They are often but not always linked. CR also reports both. If you had read everything you would know that.
"Historically, there’s no evidence that CR has favored Ford;", well, as john explained, except maybe now there is "evidence." Not proof, but why would anyone think they have enough MachE data to warrant an improving reliability rating, when most of us can count on one hand the number we have seen?

I think that what many people here have said is that CR ratings, from a SURVEY with a blinded database, are irrelevant. Which is not to say that everything CR does is wrong or bad. But in my view this particular bit of information should be hugely discounted, rather than given a lot of press attention. I'd rather read about the real-life experiences of owners on a forum like this and talk to friends who own Teslas rather than pay attention to CR surveys.

At this point I'm done. It's clear that both of you either can't read or have no interest in actually looking at evidence. As Mark Twain said - "Never argue with an idiot - they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." A this point you've beaten me with experience.
 
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Where did I say reliability and satisfaction have nothing in common.
sleepydoc said:
  1. It’s already been pointed out and discussed in this thread that satisfaction and reliability are completely separate concepts.

You might consider that when you've reduced yourself to calling people "morons" and "idiots" you've lost the battle.

At any rate, I would be happy and interested to read about your personal experiences with your Model Y.
 
More nonsense without bothering to look. The trustees do not fund a foundation. They oversee it. Do you have any actual evidence here or are you just trying to be better and conspiracy theories than Mike Lindell?
Trustees can be donors. However, I do not have evidence that Ford has donated money or influenced any grants to donees. It's just suspect they claim to be 2 separate entities yet a Ford family member is on the board of Trustees.
You might consider that when you've reduced yourself to calling people "morons" and "idiots" you've lost the battle.
Agreed, I was going to post a more detailed reply, but I think it's time to wrap this up.
 
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sleepydoc said:
  1. It’s already been pointed out and discussed in this thread that satisfaction and reliability are completely separate concepts.

You might consider that when you've reduced yourself to calling people "morons" and "idiots" you've lost the battle.

At any rate, I would be happy and interested to read about your personal experiences with your Model Y.
Yes - "Completely separate concepts" not unrelated unrelated concepts. You either took part of what I said out of context or missed part of it. I'll assume the latter so here it is again:

  1. ...Satisfaction is a qualitative, subjective opinion, essentially “do you like the car and would you buy it again?“ whereas reliability is a quantitative evaluation of the number of problems and comparison with other makes and models of the same age. While they tend to track, there is nothing that says they need to. Look at this forum - people love their Teslas, even if they have some issues.
I stand by everything I said.

As far as my Model Y goes, I'm very happy with it. I've had two minor issues - a misaligned hood/frunk and a miscalibrated seat. The seat issue caused the seat to 'lock' in place all the way back meaning the car was undrivable for my wife. Fortunately she wasn't stranded, but she could have been and it meant making an appointment at the service center and taking it in to get it fixed.

I'm not happy with the ride and wish it was a bit quieter but overall I love the driving experience and performance. The interface is good, among the best I've used but the TuneIn podcast app sucks and I miss Apple CarPlay. Winter driving is not as good as my Audi A4, most likely due to the weight/power distribution combined with the low rolling resistance tires.

So yeah, my experience exactly matches the CR report. I like my MY and would definitely buy it again but I've had some issues. You can call them reliability or quality, but either way they were things that one shouldn't have with a new car and were a significant inconvenience.
 
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On the subject of reliability/quality vs. satisfaction: My Zap Xebra was the worst car I've ever owned in terms of design and build quality. It was poorly designed and worse constructed. And I loved it more than any car I had owned previously. It was cute and silly and was my first EV. But it was dangerously under-powered; it had exposed electronics underneath which would cut out and stop the car if they got splashed by driving through a puddle; the seat belts were anchored in fiberglass; handling over 35 mph (which it would do downhill) was unstable; it was a rattletrap; it needed constant minor repairs; and having three wheels meant that you hit 50% more potholes. But it finally enabled me to drive 100% electric, and my electricity came 100% from hydro, so no fossil fuels for my electricity.

Reliability contributes to satisfaction, but does not determine it.
 
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I think Consumers reports anti-Tesla bias is showing. Tesla is so terrible that they have sold every vehicle they can make at least thru the spring. They are so terrible that they have the highest owner satisfacion rating of any car. Tesla must have a lot of people fooled.
Still, in college, I purchased a 1973 Mazda RX2 (rotary) to take me to my next job/educational experience after being influenced by Consumer Reports. The car was great, but the apex rotor seals went at about 30K miles! Have been a subscriber to CR for that long, but now I do not like the format and have not liked/believed their car reviews for many years. Being the consummate "car guy" I don't know why they don't understand TESLA. After all these years and many many cars foreign and domestic, nothing is better than my Model 3!
 
Still, in college, I purchased a 1973 Mazda RX2 (rotary) to take me to my next job/educational experience after being influenced by Consumer Reports. The car was great, but the apex rotor seals went at about 30K miles! Have been a subscriber to CR for that long, but now I do not like the format and have not liked/believed their car reviews for many years. Being the consummate "car guy" I don't know why they don't understand TESLA. After all these years and many many cars foreign and domestic, nothing is better than my Model 3!
The irony is that JD Powers' claim to faim was uncovering those apex seal flaws!
 
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Yes - "Completely separate concepts" not unrelated unrelated concepts. You either took part of what I said out of context or missed part of it. I'll assume the latter so here it is again:


I stand by everything I said.

As far as my Model Y goes, I'm very happy with it. I've had two minor issues - a misaligned hood/frunk and a miscalibrated seat. The seat issue caused the seat to 'lock' in place all the way back meaning the car was undrivable for my wife. Fortunately she wasn't stranded, but she could have been and it meant making an appointment at the service center and taking it in to get it fixed.

I'm not happy with the ride and wish it was a bit quieter but overall I love the driving experience and performance. The interface is good, among the best I've used but the TuneIn podcast app sucks and I miss Apple CarPlay. Winter driving is not as good as my Audi A4, most likely due to the weight/power distribution combined with the low rolling resistance tires.

So yeah, my experience exactly matches the CR report. I like my MY and would definitely buy it again but I've had some issues. You can call them reliability or quality, but either way they were things that one shouldn't have with a new car and were a significant inconvenience.
I guess I'll just say some of us use language differently. That might also be a problem for a subjective survey.

Your experience with winter driving worries me a bit. A friend of mine drove 300 mile commutes all last winter in snow and didn't feel he had any problems. On the other hand, he plans to put hakkapeliittas on his model Y this year. Not sure if he has yet. In my mind that has been a debate. Where I live, we have snow floor most days 8 months out of the year.
 
I don't know why they don't understand TESLA. After all these years and many many cars foreign and domestic, nothing is better than my Model 3!
Electric cars are a new paradigm. Even though the Model S was introduced almost 10 years ago they are just now becoming mainstream. Things like body panels are the same, but the way Tesla provides over the air software updates is revolutionary, and the concept of a 'drive train' is hard to apply to an EV.

Tesla has a very loyal Fan/Driver base that is passionate about Tesla and TVs in general. That loyalty also has a tendency to skew survey results.

Your experience with winter driving worries me a bit. A friend of mine drove 300 mile commutes all last winter in snow and didn't feel he had any problems. On the other hand, he plans to put hakkapeliittas on his model Y this year. Not sure if he has yet. In my mind that has been a debate. Where I live, we have snow floor most days 8 months out of the year.
My MY is a long range AWD model. Here's my understanding/analysis: the AWD models preferentially power the rear motor because it's more efficient (possibly for driving dynamics, too.) In addition, EVs' center of gravity tends to be further back than an ICE Vehicle. Now add to this the fact that the Tesla has a lot of torque. This combination means you're more likely to fishtail on turns especially if you accelerate as one typically does towards the end of a turn. (also, for reference, I came from an Audi A4 Quattro, one of the best AWD systems around.)

The flip side is the extra weight will tend to keep the front wheels from sliding so you don't totally lose control. I've driven my MY through one Minnesota winter. I never had issues getting started or getting stuck. After getting some experience with the car, I learned to take it easy on corners and to wait a bit to accelerate and never had any issues. I wouldn't call it unstable, but it wasn't as sure-footed as my Audi.

I would definitely recommend snow tires - We got a set for a 2011 Jetta we used to own and the difference was amazing. I they were definitely noisier and will likely harm economy/efficiency - I've seen threads here so you can get an idea of people's experience. It may be too late to get snow tires now, anyway. Manufacturers tend to make a run of them each year and ship them so when the stores run out they often can't get any more until next year.
 
Electric cars are a new paradigm. Even though the Model S was introduced almost 10 years ago they are just now becoming mainstream. Things like body panels are the same, but the way Tesla provides over the air software updates is revolutionary, and the concept of a 'drive train' is hard to apply to an EV.

Tesla has a very loyal Fan/Driver base that is passionate about Tesla and TVs in general. That loyalty also has a tendency to skew survey results.


My MY is a long range AWD model. Here's my understanding/analysis: the AWD models preferentially power the rear motor because it's more efficient (possibly for driving dynamics, too.) In addition, EVs' center of gravity tends to be further back than an ICE Vehicle. Now add to this the fact that the Tesla has a lot of torque. This combination means you're more likely to fishtail on turns especially if you accelerate as one typically does towards the end of a turn. (also, for reference, I came from an Audi A4 Quattro, one of the best AWD systems around.)

The flip side is the extra weight will tend to keep the front wheels from sliding so you don't totally lose control. I've driven my MY through one Minnesota winter. I never had issues getting started or getting stuck. After getting some experience with the car, I learned to take it easy on corners and to wait a bit to accelerate and never had any issues. I wouldn't call it unstable, but it wasn't as sure-footed as my Audi.

I would definitely recommend snow tires - We got a set for a 2011 Jetta we used to own and the difference was amazing. I they were definitely noisier and will likely harm economy/efficiency - I've seen threads here so you can get an idea of people's experience. It may be too late to get snow tires now, anyway. Manufacturers tend to make a run of them each year and ship them so when the stores run out they often can't get any more until next year.

Snow tires are definitely worth it. Ability to stop is extremely important.
 
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The primary purpose of a car is to get you from point A to B safely and reliably. IMO, if it can do those 2 things without needing major service over a reasonable period of time, it's reliable. A panel gap, a squeak, paint issues, body alignment, or any other issue that does not interfere in any way with that primary purpose have nothing to do with how reliable it is far as I'm concerned. Those will fall under quality.

Yet another reason why these surveys that comingle them into a 'score' are garbage.
 
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Electric cars are a new paradigm. Even though the Model S was introduced almost 10 years ago they are just now becoming mainstream. Things like body panels are the same, but the way Tesla provides over the air software updates is revolutionary, and the concept of a 'drive train' is hard to apply to an EV.

Tesla has a very loyal Fan/Driver base that is passionate about Tesla and TVs in general. That loyalty also has a tendency to skew survey results.


My MY is a long range AWD model. Here's my understanding/analysis: the AWD models preferentially power the rear motor because it's more efficient (possibly for driving dynamics, too.) In addition, EVs' center of gravity tends to be further back than an ICE Vehicle. Now add to this the fact that the Tesla has a lot of torque. This combination means you're more likely to fishtail on turns especially if you accelerate as one typically does towards the end of a turn. (also, for reference, I came from an Audi A4 Quattro, one of the best AWD systems around.)

The flip side is the extra weight will tend to keep the front wheels from sliding so you don't totally lose control. I've driven my MY through one Minnesota winter. I never had issues getting started or getting stuck. After getting some experience with the car, I learned to take it easy on corners and to wait a bit to accelerate and never had any issues. I wouldn't call it unstable, but it wasn't as sure-footed as my Audi.

I would definitely recommend snow tires - We got a set for a 2011 Jetta we used to own and the difference was amazing. I they were definitely noisier and will likely harm economy/efficiency - I've seen threads here so you can get an idea of people's experience. It may be too late to get snow tires now, anyway. Manufacturers tend to make a run of them each year and ship them so when the stores run out they often can't get any more until next year.

I've had snow tires on every car for 44 years of winter driving. Only question is whether to get them for the Model Y, so I appreciate the input.

A more fun debate is whether to have studs or not.

Also, 2 years ago we dug our neighbor's A4 out of the middle of the road, high centered in the snow. My other worry is underbody clearance.