Tesla Removes Free Unlimited Supercharging for all their CPO

[Mayo]

does this mean you no longer get free Unlimited S/C from a pre 2017 Tesla at a used car dealer (Third Party Sale) ??

 

[Rocky_H]

I had been seeing rumor of something like that. They better not, since they explicitly published in writing that the free lifetime Supercharging was permanently attached to those old cars. They would have a legal problem if they tried to renege on that.

 

[Mayo]

I had been seeing rumor of something like that. They better not, since they explicitly published in writing that the free lifetime Supercharging was permanently attached to those old cars. They would have a legal problem if they tried to renege on that.

So you think it just applies to all used vehicles Tesla has bought back and selling as CPO. Because it is confirmed the Tesla website removed all mention of SuperChargeing benefits to their CPO inventory.

 

[evalst2018]

So there are 3 categories for this:

1. (Cars sold prior to today) Pre 2017 cars, that had Unlimited Supercharging ( they CAN'T remove SC from these)
2. ( Cars sold after today) Pre 2017 cars sold by 3rd party dealers ( they CAN'T remove SC from these)
3. ( Cars sold after today) Pre 2017 cars sold by Tesla ( they CAN remove SC from these)

 

[Rocky_H]

So you think it just applies to all used vehicles Tesla has bought back and selling as CPO. Because it is confirmed the Tesla website removed all mention of SuperChargeing benefits to their CPO inventory.

They may have removed mention of it, but they have to hold with the conditions they had on the cars in practice.

So there are 3 categories for this:

1. (Cars sold prior to today) Pre 2017 cars, that had Unlimited Supercharging ( they CAN'T remove SC from these)
2. ( Cars sold after today) Pre 2017 cars sold by 3rd party dealers ( they CAN'T remove SC from these)
3. ( Cars sold after today) Pre 2017 cars sold by Tesla ( they CAN remove SC from these)

'fraid not on #3. The pre-2017 cars must always retain the free Supercharging regardless. There were plenty of back and forth things they did after that, where Supercharging was attached to the original owner (person), and may or may not transfer to another car they bought after, etc., but as those pre-2017 cars were sold in their contract, it was specified that it went with the life of the car, not the owner, , and that was confirmed in writing by a Tesla executive, so that cannot be rescinded.

 

[Mayo]

This move is another poor decision by Tesla. This is poor customer service, promise one thing and then taking away said benefit, for what a penny saved. I realize Free S/C is overrated, but Customer Service is the worst for Tesla This is just another example of poor management.

 

[dblankenbaker]

does this mean you no longer get free Unlimited S/C from a pre 2017 Tesla at a used car dealer (Third Party Sale) ??

If the 3rd party dealer already has the car, it keeps FUSC. For cars 3rd party dealers buy at auction from Tesla going forward, I'm speculate those will also have FUSC removed.

 

[Beltsbear]

They may have removed mention of it, but they have to hold with the conditions they had on the cars in practice.


'fraid not on #3. The pre-2017 cars must always retain the free Supercharging regardless. There were plenty of back and forth things they did after that, where Supercharging was attached to the original owner (person), and may or may not transfer to another car they bought after, etc., but as those pre-2017 cars were sold in their contract, it was specified that it went with the life of the car, not the owner, , and that was confirmed in writing by a Tesla executive, so that cannot be rescinded.

False. When Tesla purchases the car, it is their property and they can devalue it all they want. So long as they don’t do that to cars they don’t purchase they are ok. They may have to have the new buyer sign an understanding that the lifetime unlimited does not apply the car they are purchasing but that’s it. This May actually increase the value of the remaining unlimited supercharging cars.

 

[Rocky_H]

False. When Tesla purchases the car, it is their property and they can devalue it all they want. So long as they don’t do that to cars they don’t purchase they are ok. They may have to have the new buyer sign an understanding that the lifetime unlimited does not apply the car they are purchasing but that’s it. This May actually increase the value of the remaining unlimited supercharging cars.

I don't know why you would think they somehow have a magical ability to violate contract terms. The free unlimited Supercharging stays with that car permanently.

 

[Mayo]

False. When Tesla purchases the car, it is their property and they can devalue it all they want. So long as they don’t do that to cars they don’t purchase they are ok. They may have to have the new buyer sign an understanding that the lifetime unlimited does not apply the car they are purchasing but that’s it. This May actually increase the value of the remaining unlimited supercharging cars.

Tesla Customer Service has been deteriorating and Tesla Public Relations has suffered. Why devalue their vehicles for what, a savings of mere pennies. Yes I believe they can do what they want especially after they have purchased the vehicle back. Whats next remove Autopilot Features and charge the used car owner for the benefit.

 

[mociaf9]

I don't know why you would think they somehow have a magical ability to violate contract terms.

A contract with whom? If Tesla decided that they wanted to remove the steering wheel on all CPO cars that they sold, they could do so. It would be weird and people might not like the idea of buying the car and then having to separately buy a steering wheel (or bring their own), but they could do it if they wanted. Why do you think the FUSC is somehow different? It's an option on the car. The owner of the car can have it removed anytime they want. If you have FUSC on your own car, I bet you could ask Tesla to revoke it and they would. It's just that not many in their right mind are going to intentionally devalue their own property. All you'd be doing was increasing your costs for no benefit. But since Tesla owns both the cars AND the superchargers, they can make a value judgement that (to their mind) balances both sides.

 

[Rocky_H]

A contract with whom?

To anyone who wants to buy that car.

If Tesla decided that they wanted to remove the steering wheel on all CPO cars that they sold, they could do so.

If they had committed in writing (contract) that they would never remove the steering wheel from it for the rest of the life of that car, then NO, they couldn't. That is what this is like. They have made that contractual commitment in writing. They can't just decide to not honor it because they feel like it.

Why do you think the FUSC is somehow different? It's an option on the car.

It's not just an option on the car. It is an external service that can be used with the car. Picture it this way. Let's say that it was a service of unlimited free car washes in perpetuity for the life of the car, and they had specified that it applied to that car for the rest of that car's existence, through all future changes of ownership. They have specified exactly that same service offer with the use of the Supercharger service. So it's not just a physical thing that happened to be in the car when it was bought. It was a commitment that whoever has that car has use of that external service for the rest of that car's life. That what they committed to.

Are people looking for excuses of how to help companies screw them over? Tesla is legally not allowed to revoke that.

 

[traxila]

To anyone who wants to buy that car.

If they had committed in writing (contract) that they would never remove the steering wheel from it for the rest of the life of that car, then NO, they couldn't. That is what this is like. They have made that contractual commitment in writing. They can't just decide to not honor it because they feel like it.

It's not just an option on the car. It is an external service that can be used with the car. Picture it this way. Let's say that it was a service of unlimited free car washes in perpetuity for the life of the car, and they had specified that it applied to that car for the rest of that car's existence, through all future changes of ownership. They have specified exactly that same service offer with the use of the Supercharger service. So it's not just a physical thing that happened to be in the car when it was bought. It was a commitment that whoever has that car has use of that external service for the rest of that car's life. That what they committed to.

Are people looking for excuses of how to help companies screw them over? Tesla is legally not allowed to revoke that.

They did honor the contract. Now they own the car again and as OEM can resell with new terms. Then they have to honor that contract.

Don’t know why they are bothering really, and I am not sure why you seem to be so angry about it. Once the OEM regains ownership of the car they can resell on any terms they please or do whatever they want with it, including compacting the car into a cube.

 

[Rocky_H]

They did honor the contract.

Not honored yet. It is for the life of the car, and the car still exists, so that original condition is still ongoing.

Don’t know why they are bothering really, and I am not sure why you seem to be so angry about it. Once the OEM regains ownership of the car they can resell on any terms they please or do whatever they want with it, including compacting the car into a cube.

Not angry. I'm just in disbelief at so many people not understanding this concept.

 

[traxila]

It was free supercharging for life for the original owner and any subsequent buyers, unless of course the OEM buys it back and resells with whatever terms they like. When Tesla rebuys the car, all original terms are in play as it sees fit. Furthermore, no one is getting screwed as all original covenants were honored.

Anyway, FSC for life is overrated. Nice to have for sure.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

This is going to make it really difficult for customers of these vehicles to sell it back to Tesla. The reason is Tesla is removing a feature of the vehicle that adds considerable "psychological" value to the car.

I think it's going to hurt the resale value of cars with free supercharging for life because most customers will simply sell it back to Tesla to avoid the hassle of a private sale.

So that means the average resale value will drop.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

It was free supercharging for life for the original owner and any subsequent buyers, unless of course the OEM buys it back and resells with whatever terms they like. When Tesla rebuys the car, all original terms are in play as it sees fit. Furthermore, no one is getting screwed as all original covenants were honored.

Anyway, FSC for life is overrated. Nice to have for sure.

How do you know if you got screwed? When the math says so.

The people that will get hurt (in the pocket book) will largely be people that were unaware of the change, and didn't do the math.

I think it's undetermined how much FSC for the life of the vehicle is worth on average. There is the value proposition that depends on use case, and then there is the psychological element. Both of those combined determines it's worth.

My prediction is this change will cause the resale value of FSC to drop on average, but there will be unicorns that are sold privately where FSC will be a big part driving force of the deal. Where the buyers use case benefits a lot from FSC. For example people that want to travel the country in the car.

So basically the smart people won't be screwed over.

 

[Twiglett]

Simple contract law misunderstanding

 

[Rocky_H]

Are we in a time loop? This rumor was going in January 2017. John McNeil, Tesla's president of sales set it in stone.

"Firm answer: All Teslas purchased with Supercharging for life carry that benefit for the life of the car."

Despite Report To Contrary, Tesla Sales President Confirms "All Teslas Purchased With Supercharging For Life Carry That Benefit"

 

[mociaf9]

To anyone who wants to buy that car.

If they had committed in writing (contract) that they would never remove the steering wheel from it for the rest of the life of that car, then NO, they couldn't. That is what this is like. They have made that contractual commitment in writing. They can't just decide to not honor it because they feel like it.

It's not just an option on the car. It is an external service that can be used with the car. Picture it this way. Let's say that it was a service of unlimited free car washes in perpetuity for the life of the car, and they had specified that it applied to that car for the rest of that car's existence, through all future changes of ownership. They have specified exactly that same service offer with the use of the Supercharger service. So it's not just a physical thing that happened to be in the car when it was bought. It was a commitment that whoever has that car has use of that external service for the rest of that car's life. That what they committed to.

Are people looking for excuses of how to help companies screw them over? Tesla is legally not allowed to revoke that.

Complete and utter nonsense. Cars don't have rights. Owners have rights. When Tesla originally sold the car, along with the physical car and title, they included the right to charge that car on the supercharging network without fee as part of the sale. But that right belongs to the owner, not the car! When the original owner sells the car they are also selling the right to free supercharging that came along with it to the new owner. Once Tesla buys the car back, they have also bought back the right to supercharge that car for free. At which point, Tesla again owns both the hardware and the right to free supercharging. If they subsequently decide that they want to resell just the car without that right attached, there's no requirement that it MUST be included in subsequent sales just because it was when the car was originally sold.

You're claiming it would be a breach of contract for them not to include it, but what contract? And with whom? You said, with "anyone who wants to buy that car" but Tesla doesn't have a contract with them. Until they actually sell a car, there's no contract between Tesla and a prospective buyer. The contract they will eventually have (MVPA) will lay out exactly what is being sold, including what rights come along with the car. Tesla is perfectly within their rights to not include FUSC in the sale. And if it isn't included in the sale, and therefore isn't in MVPA, there's no contract being breached.