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Does Tesla remove FSD from third-party dealers

Does Tesla have the legal right do remove FSD from cars sold by third-party dealers?


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It doesn’t even sound like you understand what this discussion is about. Here are the cliff’s notes:

Tesla is, for a fact, removing FSD from all used vehicles that go through 3rd party dealers or back through Tesla themselves.

The only way FSD transfer with the vehicle is during a private party sale. Feel free to post any evidence to the contrary.
I think the only two anecdotes are most likely due to the previous owner actually did not buy FSD but somehow it was enabled by mistake. So during ownership transfer, Tesla audited it and removed it.
 
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They should not be able to touch a car unless they have repurchased the vehicle. Once they do so, they should be able to whatever they want, e.g. add FSD or remove it.

Though it will never happen, all of this would be a non issue if there was a simple way to check what is *actually* attached to a car.
tech exists. its called 'one time programmable secure flash'

tesla just does not 'like' playing fair. they want things both ways.

burn the rom, then you can know its there forever. anything else is a 'rental' and lots of us HATE the notion of rent-seeking.
 
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tech exists. its called 'one time programmable secure flash'

tesla just does not 'like' playing fair. they want things both ways.

burn the rom, then you can know its there forever. anything else is a 'rental' and lots of us HATE the notion of rent-seeking.

maybe, but everything can be overwritten though. look at the aftermarket for other manufacturers. and what about people who want to buy FSD, or some other feature from their car? would you expect them to drive to a dealer?
 
It doesn’t even sound like you understand what this discussion is about. Here are the cliff’s notes:

Tesla is, for a fact, removing FSD from all used vehicles that go through 3rd party dealers or back through Tesla themselves.

The only way FSD transfer with the vehicle is during a private party sale. Feel free to post any evidence to the contrary.


Two of my close friends have bought from non-Tesla, 3rd party dealers. Both have retained FSD.

Private party sales are not the *only* way that FSD transfers.
 
maybe, but everything can be overwritten though. look at the aftermarket for other manufacturers. and what about people who want to buy FSD, or some other feature from their car? would you expect them to drive to a dealer?
no, not what I'm talking about. go look it up. its like burning fuses. you cant unburn them (LOL!)

and 'secure' involves crypto tech, so that its a digital cert. you store it in a secure way and in a way that is one-time programmable (like the term says).
 
You're 100% wrong with this statement. If a car goes back to Tesla (e.g. trade-in), they have and still do remove features such as FSD to profit off of it again.
I am not. You're statement and mine dont conflict.

Used teslas traded between dealers and/or private individuals without the involvement of tesla at any point cannot have FSD removed.

Only tesla is able to do that and they only do it with cars that are at some point in teslas ownership.
 
You're 100% wrong with this statement. If a car goes back to Tesla (e.g. trade-in), they have and still do remove features such as FSD to profit off of it again.
No car that has not passed through teslas hands has had FSD removed.

Used cars auctioned by tesla to dealers have.

If tesla isnt involved in the transaction at any point they cant and wont remove fsd.
I stand corrected, the subtle "NOT" in your sentence renders my initial assessment incorrect.
 
Tesla really needs to get spanked for this in court. Either we own the software license or we don’t.

They cannot have it both ways.

They certainly will if its ever proven that they removed FSD from a vehicle a customer sold to a dealer that never landed in the hands of Tesla. That's pretty clear even to a non-lawyer like me. What's going to be harder due to the lack of precedence is spanking Tesla for removing/adding FSD to vehicles that pass through them. Like cars traded into Tesla that they then sold/auctioned to 3rd party dealers without being clear on the status of SW enabled features like FSD.

Tesla always tries to have it both ways.

Often cited example:
0-60 of the new Model S is without rollout
0-60 of the new Model S Plaid is with rollout

Often complained about example:
Tesla to consumers buying FSD -> FSD stays with the car and we can't refund you past 48 hours since purchase
Tesla to consumers selling FSD -> You think we're going to give you money for that on a trade? Are you kidding? We can add that for free
Tesla to Tesla -> Lets add/delete FSD from vehicles in our possession to maximize profits.

The problem with SW enabled features is it's really hard for 3rd party dealers to compete. A 3rd party dealer can't add add FSD, Acceleration boost, etc. at zero cost to them like Tesla can. Any FSD car that comes in they have to offer more for versus one without FSD. so its much more of a fair market deal then what Tesla can do.

What I'd like to see is more disclosure requirements for Tesla. Like better tracking of what paid SW features got added/deleted from used vehicles in their possession. To see if Tesla was abusing their position as both the manufacture, and seller.

FSD Subscriptions will go a long way in solving a lot of the existing problems because it removes it from the vehicle entirely. That might diminish the problem before the new FTC sets her sights on Tesla, and FSD practices.
 
I’m not talking about those. I’m only speaking to Tesla’s practice of removing FSD from dealer and Tesla-used sales.

So lemme get this straight. You are suggesting that when Tesla takes a trade-in, by paying for it, they have ZERO legal authority to change the car in any way? What happens if it comes with non-standard wheels? Or, the previous owner changed teh coils and shocks? Are you saying Tesla cannot replace those non-Tesla parts with Tesla parts? Similarly, why can't Tesla remove FSD from a car that they purchased and now own?

(Now if Tesla tries to sell the used car as having FSD when it no longer does, then they are committing fraud. But I'm sure you have zero examples of that happening.)
 
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What we need to see is the paperwork at auction for the cars that dealers bought and subsequently had FSD stripped (or any Tesla for that matter as it would answer the question). I don't think anyone can defend Tesla taking so long to update the car, but a dealer should be professional and if its described as only having AP, and they know the industry well enough they will know this happens, they should advertise the car accordingly. The only defence is if the auction paperwork makes no mention of AP, EAP, FSD, Performance boost or anything else.
 
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So lemme get this straight. You are suggesting that when Tesla takes a trade-in, by paying for it, they have ZERO legal authority to change the car in any way? What happens if it comes with non-standard wheels? Or, the previous owner changed teh coils and shocks? Are you saying Tesla cannot replace those non-Tesla parts with Tesla parts? Similarly, why can't Tesla remove FSD from a car that they purchased and now own?

(Now if Tesla tries to sell the used car as having FSD when it no longer does, then they are committing fraud. But I'm sure you have zero examples of that happening.)
I’m not suggesting either of those things.
If Tesla buys the car back and sells it again, they can do whatever they want. I never suggested they advertised vehicles with FSD where it was not present either.

Simply that when they take in a vehicle with FSD, it is removed. That is all.

3rd party dealer sales are a different story.