Tesla replacing some battery packs with larger capacities 60/70->75kWh, 85->90kWh

[fabionomaz]

My 2015 Model S 70D would overheat at superchargers(Heat levels would severely cripple acceleration/braking if supercharging for 45+ mins).

Service center told they will be replacing the battery under warranty and it got me thinking about a trend I've been noticing for bat packs that are less common configurations getting bumped in kWh when Tesla is replacing the battery under warranty Ex:

Ex1: 70D bumped to 75D battery
Ex2: Sean Mitchel 60kWh bumped to 75
Ex3: Multiple 85kWh upgraded to 90kWh to a few people in this thread

In the 1+ week the Service center has had my car they haven't informed me if if they are replacing it with a 70kWh pack or 75kWh but I'm hoping(I'd even be happy with 75 locked to 70), but It got me thinking:

Is this upgrade fairly common for battery packs with less common configurations? Or is this just happening to a lucky few?

 

[P85_DA]

Or is this just happening to a lucky few?

Probably this

 

[ASMills85]

My 85kw is also being replaced. Part of me wants a 90 and part of me doesn’t. If I could be sure it was a V3 90 I’d be thrilled. It’s supposed to be here Monday, so we will see.

 

[bob_p]

Battery pack replacements are likely going to be refurbishments of packs that were previously removed due to problems, and then repaired & refurbished to use as parts for service.

With battery pack production a major bottleneck for production of new vehicles, it seems unlikely Tesla would institute a large scale battery replacement program, using new battery packs.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

My 2015 Model S 70D would overheat at superchargers(Heat levels would severely cripple acceleration/braking if supercharging for 45+ mins).

Service center told they will be replacing the battery under warranty and it got me thinking about a trend I've been noticing for bat packs that are less common configurations getting bumped in kWh when Tesla is replacing the battery under warranty Ex:

Ex1: 70D bumped to 75D battery
Ex2: Sean Mitchel 60kWh bumped to 75
Ex3: Multiple 85kWh upgraded to 90kWh to a few people in this thread

In the 1+ week the Service center has had my car they haven't informed me if if they are replacing it with a 70kWh pack or 75kWh but I'm hoping(I'd even be happy with 75 locked to 70), but It got me thinking:

Is this upgrade fairly common for battery packs with less common configurations? Or is this just happening to a lucky few?

They'll provide what's available, I guess.

 

[Lasttoy]

It would be good Karma if all replacements went 100 pack to make the fleet more standard.
That has many advantages for every aspect of maintenance.

 

[fabionomaz]

Battery pack replacements are likely going to be refurbishments of packs that were previously removed due to problems, and then repaired & refurbished to use as parts for service.

With battery pack production a major bottleneck for production of new vehicles, it seems unlikely Tesla would institute a large scale battery replacement program, using new battery packs.

Yep when I called them up yesterday for an update, they said it'd be a refurbished pack that would be "Like new" but no mention on the size, I got a text today that the pack has been ordered and will arrive next Thursday.

Today makes two weeks since I dropped my car off, hoping I get it back next week but I'll update this post if I get a 70 or 75 pack. Either way I'm excited to get a "Fresh" pack.

BTW this is what my energy screen would look like if I stayed at a Super Charger for 45mins:

 

[camthehombre]

It would be good Karma if all replacements went 100 pack to make the fleet more standard.
That has many advantages for every aspect of maintenance.

Oh what I would give for that to happen! Just mentioning that gets my hopes up.

 

[fabionomaz]

Probably this

Seems I got lucky or this is the new "norm" if you have an oddball pack size.

Just got confirmation from Tesla that I can pick up my car tomorrow and my app is reporting the 75kWh battery(and emailed receipt), they plugged it in and at the 50% mark the app is reporting 125mi, or 250mi rated at 100%.

 

[fabionomaz]

My 85kw is also being replaced. Part of me wants a 90 and part of me doesn’t. If I could be sure it was a V3 90 I’d be thrilled. It’s supposed to be here Monday, so we will see.

Did you get the 90kWh? really interested to know what happened.

I was talking to a guy at the supercharger and he was telling me the service center told him "there's been a shortage of 85 batteries and they're putting in 90's" this is just awesome of Tesla to do.

 

[ASMills85]

Did you get the 90kWh? really interested to know what happened.

I was talking to a guy at the supercharger and he was telling me the service center told him "there's been a shortage of 85 batteries and they're putting in 90's" this is just awesome of Tesla to do.

No... and maybe. Mine is a P85DL and they replaced it with a non Ludicrous 85 pack. They are currently sourcing the right pack, we’ll see what they come up with... it’s been about a week and a half now since I got it back with the wrong battery. I asked this time for the 90 and they said that isn’t the norm, but it has happened in the past. At this point if I don’t hear anything by next week I may get pushy about it. I’ve been patient, at this point it is getting a bit ridiculous.

 

[sorka]

No... and maybe. Mine is a P85DL and they replaced it with a non Ludicrous 85 pack. They are currently sourcing the right pack, we’ll see what they come up with... it’s been about a week and a half now since I got it back with the wrong battery. I asked this time for the 90 and they said that isn’t the norm, but it has happened in the past. At this point if I don’t hear anything by next week I may get pushy about it. I’ve been patient, at this point it is getting a bit ridiculous.

That's like getting a loaner car but all the miles you put on are really on your car

 

[fabionomaz]

Battery pack replacements are likely going to be refurbishments of packs that were previously removed due to problems, and then repaired & refurbished to use as parts for service.

With battery pack production a major bottleneck for production of new vehicles, it seems unlikely Tesla would institute a large scale battery replacement program, using new battery packs.

Yep you were right, the 75 pack in the invoice mentions "refab"(image of that part of the invoice in previous post). It reports 250mi at 100%(it was ~233mi at 100% on the 70 pack), facelift 75D's I think report 259 new but I think those have better efficiency.

They did a software update on the car to display "75D" in the dash/MCU/App(Looking for a 75D badge for the trunk now lol).

I swear the car feels faster 0-60 than before, but I'll have to do some testing to see if that's true.

 

[ASMills85]

That's like getting a loaner car but all the miles you put on are really on your car

They did confirm today it will be a 90kw replacement. They said won’t know the battery version until it arrives.

 

[bob_p]

Owners should not expect to see larger capacity battery packs if they get a pack swap.

There are owners who purchased vehicles with software-limited packs, and will charge those owners an upgrade fee to unlock the full pack capacity (same is true with some vehicles that have 72A onboard chargers, limited to 48A of charging).

If Tesla gave away capacity upgrades in a pack swap, they could see complaints from owners with software-limited packs who would ask for their packs to be unlocked (for free).

Though if Tesla is looking for a short-term burst in revenue, still believe they should offer a one-time discount to all owners with software-limited features (pack capacity, onboard charger, EAP, FSD), since those owners are unlikely to ever purchase those upgrades anyway.

 

[fabionomaz]

Owners should not expect to see larger capacity battery packs if they get a pack swap.

There are owners who purchased vehicles with software-limited packs, and will charge those owners an upgrade fee to unlock the full pack capacity (same is true with some vehicles that have 72A onboard chargers, limited to 48A of charging).

If Tesla gave away capacity upgrades in a pack swap, they could see complaints from owners with software-limited packs who would ask for their packs to be unlocked (for free).

Though if Tesla is looking for a short-term burst in revenue, still believe they should offer a one-time discount to all owners with software-limited features (pack capacity, onboard charger, EAP, FSD), since those owners are unlikely to ever purchase those upgrades anyway.

***Pure Speculation but I don't think it's Tesla's intent or desire to give free upgrades for these older odd pack sizes when they have to replace the pack, but like the software-limited packs and the removal of the 75D option helps to streamline battery production and improve margins:

I believe similarly in re-fabricated pack production for replacement packs, they started prioritizing the most common sizes (like the 75/90) in current battery chemistries over trying to manufacture old chemistry cells & packs for rare configurations like the old non-software locked 60/70/85. I'd imagine trying to continue producing these older chemistry cells/rare pack sizes is more expensive than to slap in a current and more easily produced 75/90.​

I supercharged today for the first time on the new pack and thought it was really odd that even though I was down to 10% I wasn't getting anywhere close to 120kW like I did in my 70 pack. After reading on the forums it seems the newer chemistry of the 75kWh packs only allows a max of around 98KW even though they're both 350 volts which really surprised me, but the 75 tapers off later in the charge cycle which is a nice trade-off though.

 

[sorka]

***Pure Speculation but I don't think it's Tesla's intent or desire to give free upgrades for these older odd pack sizes when they have to replace the pack, but like the software-limited packs and the removal of the 75D option helps to streamline battery production and improve margins:

I believe similarly in re-fabricated pack production for replacement packs, they started prioritizing the most common sizes (like the 75/90) in current battery chemistries over trying to manufacture old chemistry cells & packs for rare configurations like the old non-software locked 60/70/85. I'd imagine trying to continue producing these older chemistry cells/rare pack sizes is more expensive than to slap in a current and more easily produced 75/90.​

I supercharged today for the first time on the new pack and thought it was really odd that even though I was down to 10% I wasn't getting anywhere close to 120kW like I did in my 70 pack. After reading on the forums it seems the newer chemistry of the 75kWh packs only allows a max of around 98KW even though they're both 350 volts which really surprised me, but the 75 tapers off later in the charge cycle which is a nice trade-off though.

Are you software limited to 70 on the top end so that 10% is really more like 20%?

 

[sorka]

Owners should not expect to see larger capacity battery packs if they get a pack swap.

There are owners who purchased vehicles with software-limited packs, and will charge those owners an upgrade fee to unlock the full pack capacity (same is true with some vehicles that have 72A onboard chargers, limited to 48A of charging).

If Tesla gave away capacity upgrades in a pack swap, they could see complaints from owners with software-limited packs who would ask for their packs to be unlocked (for free).

Though if Tesla is looking for a short-term burst in revenue, still believe they should offer a one-time discount to all owners with software-limited features (pack capacity, onboard charger, EAP, FSD), since those owners are unlikely to ever purchase those upgrades anyway.

Except Tesla is already doing this in most cases on 85s and they are not software limiting them.

 

[fabionomaz]

Are you software limited to 70 on the top end so that 10% is really more like 20%?

No software limit on mine, it's purely the different batteries. Original 70's can reach around 116kW but taper off after about 25%, 75kWh batteries don't charge over 100kW but don't taper off until around 50%. There's time-lapse videos on this from Bjørn on youtube, and "AbetterRoutePlanner" has data from this in their blog showing the same.

 

[fabionomaz]

Owners should not expect to see larger capacity battery packs if they get a pack swap.

There are owners who purchased vehicles with software-limited packs, and will charge those owners an upgrade fee to unlock the full pack capacity (same is true with some vehicles that have 72A onboard chargers, limited to 48A of charging).

If Tesla gave away capacity upgrades in a pack swap, they could see complaints from owners with software-limited packs who would ask for their packs to be unlocked (for free).

Though if Tesla is looking for a short-term burst in revenue, still believe they should offer a one-time discount to all owners with software-limited features (pack capacity, onboard charger, EAP, FSD), since those owners are unlikely to ever purchase those upgrades anyway.

An upgrade for a 60 to 75 I do see as too massive of a free upgrade like in the case of the Sean guy I linked in OP, he really beat up his battery. But a software-limited S60 who takes care of the battery would have to pay a good chunk of change to unlock to 75.

A 70 to 75 and 85 to 90 really not a massive difference which I think is reasonable and probably would not stir up too much complaints from software locked individuals.

Like I said in the original post, I would have been happy even if it was a 75 pack locked to 70.