sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
Best car with the worst steering interface. If they have a yoke they have every right to complain!
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Tesla replacing ultrasonic sensors with Tesla Vision
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jabloomf1230
Minister of Silly Walks
I don't believe that Tesla will restore the USS sensors, but the hole punching is the last step done before mounting the bumpers (I posted a link previously), so a retrofit isn't a big deal if the harness is still there. I'm confident that Tesla could supply its service centers with a punch device.
I believe he meant functionality meaning Tesla Vision will add parking functionality via software update, not going back to uss.
jabloomf1230
Minister of Silly Walks
Elon and Tesla rarely promise a new capability unless they have already tested it internally. That doesn't mean that TV parking will be better than USS-based versions. It just means that some form of TV parking will be released.
My point was that if supply chain problems ease up and TV is a dud for parking, there's always an option of retrofitting the USS hardware.
In fact, that is exactly what they are saying.
Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision | Tesla Support
Safety is at the core of our design and engineering decisions. In 2021, we began our transition to Tesla Vision by removing radar from Model 3 and Model Y, followed by Model S and Model X in 2022. Today, in most regions around the globe, these vehicles now rely on Tesla Vision, our camera-based...
and no, retrofitting uss hardware would not be an option that Tesla would employ.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
It can pop a warning for you to clean it, just like it does with the pillar cameras. Given USS is used in parking situations almost all the time, it wouldn't be a big deal. It's not like USS don't get blocked either in the same snow conditions people pointed out.
KArnold
Active Member
Yes, it does. Frequently, especially if there is any warmth and humidity in the car with cold outside. I don't think b pillars have ever been 'dirty' on my car, but often blinded or fogged with condensation inside the appliqué - so not really cleanable.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
Umm...yeah. I get to my destination, start to back into a parking spot, see the pop-up telling me to clean my cameras so I put the car in park in the middle of the aisle in the parking lot, go out and wipe off my camera, then get back in and proceed to park. (worse, I'm trying to parallel park so I put it in park in the street to do this!)
USS can get blocked but it's far less frequent. My rear camera is functionally useless after a mile or two in the wintertime. The only time I've had a problem with the sensors is with heavy sleet or snow.
Its interesting how resistant people are about Tesla's innovations.
I can understand from a consumer pov, not having features that should be there. I certainly had a negative knee jerk reaction.
However, going into how valuable or superior uss is compared to teslav without understanding it... I think it deserves a bit more research before you form an opinion like that.
Tesla has always done things outside the box. There are some ludicriously amazing things they have done on a mass production scale.
Things that the auto industry laughed at. I know I sound like a cheerleader at this point, not my intention.
My point is, Tesla's innovative mindset doesn't change just because people can't see the forest through the trees.
It may be a failure, who knows. But from what I have seen, they base these decisions and invest in these technologies based on really sound principles and innovate.
I was very much a skeptic, and saw this as cheap measure.
However, I'm in a wait and see mindset with what they will come out with.
At this point, if I had the choice to permanently stay with uss or wait and go with tv, i'll just wait.
Well, honestly, I have no choice. LOL
But this kind of paradigm shift in how they think about a technology is very much in line with Tesla's brand, imo.
Yes, I do believe they bungled this transition and it was most likely because of pandemic supply chain issues. *and btw, I'm more than ok with Tesla's path through the pandemic than companies like BMW that simply removed features permanently, like parking assist and touchscreens, while "market adjusting" prices way above msrp.
However, we are where we are. I'm ok with it and once I understood the technology and the logic behind it, really made me keep an open mind.
I can understand from a consumer pov, not having features that should be there. I certainly had a negative knee jerk reaction.
However, going into how valuable or superior uss is compared to teslav without understanding it... I think it deserves a bit more research before you form an opinion like that.
Tesla has always done things outside the box. There are some ludicriously amazing things they have done on a mass production scale.
Things that the auto industry laughed at. I know I sound like a cheerleader at this point, not my intention.
My point is, Tesla's innovative mindset doesn't change just because people can't see the forest through the trees.
It may be a failure, who knows. But from what I have seen, they base these decisions and invest in these technologies based on really sound principles and innovate.
I was very much a skeptic, and saw this as cheap measure.
However, I'm in a wait and see mindset with what they will come out with.
At this point, if I had the choice to permanently stay with uss or wait and go with tv, i'll just wait.
Well, honestly, I have no choice. LOL
But this kind of paradigm shift in how they think about a technology is very much in line with Tesla's brand, imo.
Yes, I do believe they bungled this transition and it was most likely because of pandemic supply chain issues. *and btw, I'm more than ok with Tesla's path through the pandemic than companies like BMW that simply removed features permanently, like parking assist and touchscreens, while "market adjusting" prices way above msrp.
However, we are where we are. I'm ok with it and once I understood the technology and the logic behind it, really made me keep an open mind.
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sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
Fact - Tesla admits that cameras can’t currently replace the ultrasonic sensors as evidenced by the features that are not available on cars without sensors
Fact - Tesla has a history of promising features that take months to years before they appear
Fact - when promised features appear they are frequently buggy for some time before becoming reasonably reliable
Fact - there are areas immediately in front of the car that the cameras can’t see
Fact - the Cameras don’t work if the lens doesn’t allow a clear image
Fact - in climates with snow and even with wet roads the rear camera rapidly becomes obscured (within minutes)
I’m curious as to why you have so much faith that Tesla Vision will even come close to replacing ultrasonic sensors in the near future if ever.
"So much faith" is a mischaracterization of what I said.
The reason I keep an open mind about Tesla Vision is because I listened to the reasoning behind the decision by Karpathy.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I'm not saying it'll be convenient, just saying there's a trivial way to address it, unlike when the car is travelling at high speeds. We don't have snow here in the Bay Area, but heavy rain is common, and the biggest problem with the rear camera is it getting obscured by rain on the highway, but it seems to clear itself by the time I reach local roads at low speeds.
There will always be tradeoffs between different sensors. For example, just taking the known, the radar can make the car continue to have TACC even in low visibility conditions, but on the flip side, in certain snow conditions, snow buildup on the front of the vehicle may disable the radar, while the cameras can continue functioning.
It's going to be a mixed bag (new limitations will be added), but seeing the output of the occupancy network, I see a lot of possible new applications that can be done with it in terms of parking assist (personally I want a curb line indicator).
jabloomf1230
Minister of Silly Walks
We get pretty infrequent rain down in SoCal, so I'm curious for those in the north where it rains more. When your rear camera is rendered useless by some moisture, does the visualization no longer show any cars directly behind you? You come to a red light, and zoom out with a car on your bumper, is it not showing there?
@jeewee3000
I wonder if the next update will add FSD views to normal access across the board. Since it's already implemented, maybe this is the update that is rumored... who knows right? But I wouldn't mind!
I wonder if the next update will add FSD views to normal access across the board. Since it's already implemented, maybe this is the update that is rumored... who knows right? But I wouldn't mind!
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jeewee3000
Active Member
Yeah, I forgot to mention this, but when I picked up my car last Saturday I asked on and on about the Tesla Vision timeline and got some tidbits of info.
As I mentioned somewhere on TMC before, the Tesla salesman knew nothing of the timeline for TV parking features but said nobody knows.
What he did mention was a birds eye view is in the works. I corrected him with my TMC fanboi knowledge and said: you mean surround view with FSD visualization and he said: no no, camera based birds eye view.
Let's hope this is true, but it doesn't seem what Elon tweeted about lately. Just wanted to share what I heard.
Here is another Fact that Tesla ignored:
Software before Hardware (released or removed)
Removing before the software was tested, known to work and most importantly AVAILABLE is an obtuse decision.
This whole story reminds me of how I was just about to upgrade my Raven with Plaid and then I saw the half-wheel (“yoke” is somewhat of a misname). Glad I stayed with the Raven and mad as hell that I allowed an update to remove the radar.
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