Tesla replacing ultrasonic sensors with Tesla Vision

[whitex]

That is pretty much how other manufacturers dealt with the USS shortage.

Yep, I've seen the "chip shortage package" which would show up on the build sheets of cars with a negative price. Not gonna happen with Tesla though. Tesla will string people along and then call it "a future aspirational goal" and never deliver, like they did with FSD.

 

[SalisburySam]

Yep, I've seen the "chip shortage package" which would show up on the build sheets of cars with a negative price. Not gonna happen with Tesla though. Tesla will string people along and then call it "a future aspirational goal" and never deliver, like they did with FSD.

Sadly, this appears to be the case.

 

[jeewee3000]

Tesla will deliver something. My main question is if it will be any good...

If it's buggy unreliable software with 100 caveats than I might as well not have it.

They have proven occupancy. Question is how reliable they can get it to be. Time will tell.

 

[emmz0r]

Tesla will deliver something. My main question is if it will be any good...

If it's buggy unreliable software with 100 caveats than I might as well not have it.

They have proven occupancy. Question is how reliable they can get it to be. Time will tell.

If occupancy means being occupied with other stuff than actually making production ready autopilot work - yeah they have achieved occupancy.

 

[My2cents]

Hi all, just wanted to post an update. I asked my local Tesla dealership (Belgium) when the Tesla Vision update for no-USS cars is to be expected.
Their reply (deepl translation):

"Unfortunately, we have no idea when to expect this update.
We hope together with our customers that this will happen soon but cannot make any promises in this regard."

So Tesla representatives/employees outside the AI Team generally have no clue and probably know less than we do.
I'm cross-posting this in the three main "no-USS threads".

Same applies for Norway - sales reps have no clue and (by what they say themselves) get no info either from the "higher" ups. And when media asks the execs - no info is given. That is the equivalent of no fecks given on customers. Their continued work on non-essential car features like farting and removal of essential features as USS without credible replacement in place just goes to show they care more about the bottom line than anything else. We are free to sell our cars any day and inform others of our experiences

 

[Boza]

They have proven occupancy.

I must have missed that. When was the GA?

 

[jeewee3000]

I must have missed that. When was the GA?

What is GA?

 

[Dewg]

https://gprivate.com/6368y

 

[Boza]

General availability. When a product moves from “beta” to production.

 

[whitex]

Tesla will deliver something. My main question is if it will be any good...

If it's buggy unreliable software with 100 caveats than I might as well not have it.

They have proven occupancy. Question is how reliable they can get it to be. Time will tell.

The main question is when actually - their out may be that 10 years from now they are still working on it. Once delivered however, if it doesn't work well, it could become a safety recall and Tesla would be forced to retrofit USS to all cars. Perhaps they forgot this is a feature with safety implications, so it's not as easy to just deliver crappy functionality and call it a day.

 

[whitex]

General availability. When a product moves from “beta” to production.

Wait, there are Tesla's with no Beta software? Which ones?

 

[jeewee3000]

https://gprivate.com/6368y

In this case I thought "what does General Assembly have to do with anything?"

Spoiler: list of GA acronyms

When looking at Google, you get:

Acronym	Definition
GA	Georgia (US postal abbreviation)
GA	Garage (real estate)
GA	Go Ahead (used in chat)
GA	Goals Against (sports scoring)
GA	General Assembly
GA	Go Ahead
GA	Go Away
GA	General Assistance
GA	General Accounting
GA	Gauge
GA	General Aviation
GA	General Admission
GA	Go Around
GA	Gambia
GA	Genetic Algorithm
GA	General Availability
GA	Government Agency
GA	Gage
GA	Gabon (Internet country code)
GA	Germantown Academy
GA	Great Adventure (theme park)
GA	Generally Available
GA	Grey's Anatomy (TV show)
GA	Green Arrow (comics character)
GA	Guardian Angel
GA	Geoscience Australia
GA	Gary Allan (country music artist)
GA	Girls Aloud (band)
GA	Girls in Action (Southern Baptist Convention organization for young girls)
GA	Gamblers Anonymous
GA	Google Analytics
GA	Green Acres (Visalia, CA middle school)
GA	Graphics Adapter
GA	Galaxy Angel (anime series)
GA	Giorgio Armani (clothing brand)
GA	Good Afternoon
GA	General Agent
GA	Great America (theme park)
GA	Tabun (nerve agent)
GA	Good Article (Wikimedia Foundation)
GA	Global Assessment
GA	Graduate Assistant
GA	Geographical Association (UK)
GA	Government Affairs
GA	Gallium
GA	General Agreement
GA	General Anesthesia
GA	Gillian Anderson
GA	Glynn Academy (Brunswick, GA)
GA	Gestational Age
GA	General Authority (LDS Church)
GA	Ginger Ale
GA	Grant Aid
GA	General Atomics
GA	Grant Agency
GA	Go Abroad (travel website)
GA	Gay Asian
GA	Graduate Assistantship
GA	Glutaraldehyde
GA	Gilbert Arenas (basketball player)
GA	Grand Admiral
GA	Game Arena (Australian gaming website)
GA	Gate Array
GA	Global Address (computing)
GA	German Army
GA	General Assignment (news reporting)
GA	General Average
GA	Golf Australia (publication)
GA	Gas Analysis
GA	Gypsum Association (Evanston, Illinois)
GA	Graduate Advisor (live-in advisors to undergraduates)
GA	Graphics Array
GA	Gibberellic Acid (plant hormone)
GA	Gaming-Age (gaming website)
GA	General of The Army
GA	Ground Attack
GA	Guano Apes (band)
GA	General Awareness
GA	Galactic Alliance (Star Wars)
GA	Glendale Arena (Arizona)
GA	Gund Arena (Cleveland)
GA	General Accident (British Insurance Company)
GA	Green Alliance (London, UK)
GA	General Arrangement (layout drawing as opposed to detail)
GA	Grand Alliance (advanced television)
GA	Granuloma Annulare (dermatology)
GA	Geographic Atrophy (eye condition)
GA	Guarantee Agency
GA	General Answer
GA	General Alarm
GA	General Auditor
GA	Gyro Assembly
GA	Greening Australia (Australia)
GA	Gravity Assist (spacecraft trajectories)
GA	General Adjuster (insurance)
GA	Global Atlas
GA	Geologic Age
GA	Glide Angle
GA	Galvanizers Association (UK)
GA	General Alert
GA	Ground Antenna
GA	Government Aided
GA	Globus Alliance (HP, IBM, et al)
GA	Gastric Analysis
GA	Giga Annum (Latin: Billion Years)
GA	Guichet Automatique
GA	Geographical Address
GA	General Auxiliary
GA	GraphicAudio
GA	Ghana Army
GA	Government Allotment
GA	Gridiron Australia
GA	Green Armour (Quake)
GA	Gun-Assembled
GA	Graphic Annunciator (fire alarm)
GA	Graphics & Administration
GA	Galeria E Arteve (National Art Gallery)
GA	Grace Adventures (Michigan)
GA	GoblinARMY (gaming)
GA	Guest Advisor
GA	Geekarea (website)
GA	Genetic Anomalies, Inc.
GA	Guy of Auvergne (DeMolay)
GA	Garuda Indonesia Airline - Indonesia (IATA airline code)

When posting unclear acronyms, you can be asked about it.

 

[LiamPope]

General arrangement to me. As in engineering drawing.

But thought he may have meant grand announcement in the context.

 

[Boza]

We were discussing occupancy, which is a software term, hence “GA”. I should have spelled it…

 

[whitex]

We were discussing occupancy, which is a software term, hence “GA”. I should have spelled it…

I don't think Tesla subscribes to the Beta to GA software model. All their software is perma-Beta, the "continuous integration" model, also known as "keep testing small incremental changes it on your customers".

 

[Battpower]

It has been a source of frustration to me that the cloak of 'perpetual beta' status makes it all but impossible to hold Tesla accountable. Sooner or later I hope this will get tested and resolved. It totally smacks of Snake Oil.

OTA updates, used judiciously, should be a valuable tool to deliver real value to customers and manufacturers alike. The way things are going with Tesla and if OTA updating is abused, I can see (eventually) regulators seeking to insert external controls in order that OTA updating does not circumvent normal commercial practice and regulation.

The idea that a solution to any issue is imminent (may be) yet reality known only to Tesla negates or at least confounds most common consumer protection.

 

[jabloomf1230]

It has been a source of frustration to me that the cloak of 'perpetual beta' status makes it all but impossible to hold Tesla accountable. Sooner or later I hope this will get tested and resolved. It totally smacks of Snake Oil.

I look at that a bit differently than you do. If FSD never escapes its beta status, then the product is not finished. You're correct that this delay could go on forever, but at some point a court is going to hear an argument and decide either for or against Tesla.

 

[Battpower]

clear that most people on this thread are here to wallow in their self-righteous rage

I agree that it feels like that. But given that a growing list of several outstanding issues keep failing to get real resolution, what else can owners do?

Take b-pillar cam windows. They have been problematic since day 1 given specific (common enough) climatic conditions. I had SC look multiple times at 'fixing' the problem, but eventually gave up and opted to wait a while then, in the absence of a solution, formally require them to fix it. The move towards further reliance on camera vision makes this even more important, just to allow my car's spec to not go backwards.

at some point a court is going to hear an argument and decide either for or against Tesla.

That was really my point too. But think of how many owners may be deemed retrospectively to have been shafted when they no longer own the compromised car. My Ms Raven is a great car (not just EV) comfort-wise for long trips. But as it nears the end of end-to-end warranty I feel genuinely unsure if I should keep it or not. If Tesla honour their obligations to make stuff work as it should reasonably be expected to, I'd keep it. It is the uncertainty - especially regarding having a lagacy vehicle potentially forced into a vision only spec that it was not originally designed with. On top of that, Tesla could well leave me high and dry with an unsupported hybrid that can't ever deliver acceptable FSD performance.

Remember Tesla's approach to a failed board in 85 batteries. They came up with a software 'fix' that once installed took thousands of miles of driving to take effect.... that is if it even was going to provide a solution of sorts. Either way it kicked the warranty can down the road and may be saved Tesla a few battery replacements. In any case, an effected battery would be left with a failed internal part, but regarded as fixed (or at least potentially fixed) by Tesla.

@Mullermn, what's your suggestion? Just put it all down to experience? We all knew what we were buying? If that's the case, you might as well ditch most consumer protection law on the basis that everything is just part of life long learning!

 

[jabloomf1230]

That was really my point to. But think of how many owners may be deemed retrospectively to have been shafted when they no longer own the car.

I'm not a lawyer, but if such a class action suit succeeds, should it not matter if one no longer owns the vehicle?

 

[Battpower]

I'm not a lawyer, but if such a class action suit succeeds, should it not matter if one no longer owns the vehicle?

Morally, it shouldn't make any difference. In the US I get class settlement letters every now and then as I'm sure many do. 'If you owned xxx' or 'If you used yyy service' between certain dates you may be entitled to compensation.

In the UK at least this is in my experience far far less common. We have had some high profile and very common cases for financial insurance products and miss-selling that consumers have been able to claim compensation for. But for products like cars no longer owned.... especially if financed / leased..... I don't think compensation is likely. Even if you still own the goods, class actions are not common. In the US I gather its usually the lawyers who do best from them.