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Tesla replacing ultrasonic sensors with Tesla Vision

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The wording is vague enough that it could simply mean you don't have to actively apply inputs into the car. Basically end-to-end L2 could qualify for this. The sticking point is the steering wheel nags, but in context to how AP originally worked (with little to no steering nags), that was added due to regulatory pressure (which they disclaim later). They are trying to use the cabin camera to reduce or eliminate steering nag, but NHTSA finger wagged when Elon suggested that earlier in the year.
Actually the wording is very clear - no action required from the person in the driver's seat. Notice they don't even call that person a driver, since they are not required to apply to do anything at all for the car to drive from start to its destination. L2 definition required action from the driver whenever the car does something wrong (it doesn't even require the car to ask for a handover).

This could be satisfied with a parking lot L4 parking mode (something suggested as probable L4 functionality in SAE documents). While it does not say it won't work out in city roads, it also doesn't say it will work on all roads and conditions. In fact, L4 explicitly allows geofence and road type based limitations (most L4 cars are heavily geofenced and do not travel on the highway during commercial service). I think it's a huge stretch to say it implies highway usage based on a parking space in the next city over. But so far regardless, no such L4 parking functionality is available yet from Tesla.
Ok, if we apply this type of literal interpretation (which I would not put past Tesla, as they have done things like this in the past), then FSD is delivered, geofenced to runway-like, straight,100ft strip of the Tesla Freemont factory perimeter road. FSD L4 delivered (according to you, since the wording didn't say anywhere that it would work outside of the Freemont factory, right?). Not much different that AP1 "find you anywhere on private property" but delivered with a caveat "as long as that property is in a straight line forward or backwards up to 20ft away from the car, and you hold a dead-man-switch while the car is moving", they never originally said it would work on any private property, right?

Tesla Network has been removed from Tesla's site completely and the details never came, so it's a bit moot (plus a sentence without detailed terms and conditions would hardly qualify as an agreement that the owner can't use the car in FSD mode with Uber for example). As you mention yourself, the page does not explicitly say such ride-sharing is without someone in the driver's seat. Someone doing rideshare with FSD Beta while in driver's seat (as plenty of YouTube videos show) can easily fall under this. In fact even many L4 cars are required to have safety drivers especially in states like California, where only recently is driverless commercial passenger service allowed.
Yes, Tesla is really good a removing things and pretending they never existed, like the 90 degree driveway to street AP1 summon illustration, blind spot monitoring for AP1, redefining FSD to be what EAP used to be and declaring FSD 80% done that way without a single feature delivered, etc, etc.
 
Actually the wording is very clear - no action required from the person in the driver's seat. Notice they don't even call that person a driver, since they are not required to apply to do anything at all for the car to drive from start to its destination. L2 definition required action from the driver whenever the car does something wrong (it doesn't even require the car to ask for a handover).

Agreed, L4 is the minimum that fits what they described in the pre-3-19 stuff.


Ok, if we apply this type of literal interpretation (which I would not put past Tesla, as they have done things like this in the past), then FSD is delivered, geofenced to runway-like, straight,100ft strip of the Tesla Freemont factory perimeter road.

No, it's not.

See the "both long and short trips" line for example-- no court would find 100 feet in one place a long trip.

But moreso, note the "in almost all circumstances" language.

They could probably get away with "unless it needs to go on an interstate to park" though I can't imagine when you'd need to as a limit... or maybe even "except in very heavy rain"

But "only within 100 feet of our factory" would not fit "in almost all circumstances" nor would any other INSANELY heavy georestrictions.
 
Has anyone actually seen/taken delivery of a Model S or a Model X without USS? It seems like every Model X delivery at least has been with USS. Are they waiting to remove USS from the low production cars until HW4?
Yes, I have a new Model S, and there is no USS. And, there is no Park Assist. And, there is no 'you are 12" from the wall in front of you". I don't know how big this care is because I can't see the end of the hood. Where is my Park Assist?
 
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.... can you show me on google maps where dropping me at a NYC restaurant would involve getting on a highway to find a parking spot? I'm from NY originally, and still visit fairly often, and can't really think of any sort of example like that.

I can't speak to NY or NYC. But in CA and Los Angeles I can think of many situations where the car is going to get on the freeway just to get off at the next exit.

The navigation thinks of it as a short cut, least miles, least turns, shortest distance. Whatever. Occasionly I see it when I'm on the freeway - someone gets on in front on me and then off the following ramp. Most human drivers would just add the time, milage and turns to stay on the road instead.
 
I can't speak to NY or NYC. But in CA and Los Angeles I can think of many situations where the car is going to get on the freeway just to get off at the next exit.

To find a parking spot near the restaurant it just stopped at?

With the Tesla snake charger (prototype) it can. I've seen people make their own versions too.

You mean the protoype from years and years ago there was never any further update or progress on and does not exist in production?


Also wireless charging can be retrofitted as well.

At L3 speeds?

<citation required>

You'd need to retrofit both the car (somehow) and all the 45,000 (and growing) superchargers for it too.



I'm putting a box against the shelves that I've been hitting. When I hit the box, I'll stop the car (9" from the shelves). It's really, really annoying not knowing where the front of the car is.

Why not back in? Rear view cam seems to work fine for not hitting walls?
 
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To find a parking spot near the restaurant it just stopped at?

Yes, parking lot/structure could be a few blocks away and esp in busy city centers with one way streets sometimes its just quicker/easier to get on and off the freeway than to do it via streets. I don't think Tesla has an "Avoid Highways" option yet right? In which case it could end up on the freeway. In my drives with Navi it commonly wants me to get on and off the freeway for just one/two blocks or next exit. I'll take over if the mood strikes.

You mean the protoype from years and years ago there was never any further update or progress on and does not exist in production?

No. Never in production. But it could be make to be. YouTube has videos of people who made there own. From a project standpoint it's not too complex.

At L3 speeds?

<citation required>

You'd need to retrofit both the car (somehow) and all the 45,000 (and growing) superchargers for it too.
There are various cities/states/countries that are going to require wireless charging for areas with long taxi ques (like airports) to keep them topped off while they wait. Next step would be to add to parking lots or wherever for regular public use.

Start by adding to new cars and work backwards as needed.

Current system is fast L2 with cost of $3-4k for car and charger pad. 700V unit is in development.

Why not back in? Rear view cam seems to work fine for not hitting walls?
Don't forget tennis ball on a string.

;)
 
Now, it is just my opinion, but it does seem to me that this Vision thing needs work (shoe size is US 8.5). If I park there the garage door barely missed the rear.
 

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Yes, parking lot/structure could be a few blocks away and esp in busy city centers with one way streets sometimes its just quicker/easier to get on and off the freeway than to do it via streets. I don't think Tesla has an "Avoid Highways" option yet right? In which case it could end up on the freeway. In my drives with Navi it commonly wants me to get on and off the freeway for just one/two blocks or next exit. I'll take over if the mood strikes.

Again, please show me where in NYC you'd stop at a restaurant but the car would need to get on a highway to find parking... I get for overall travel the nav might sometimes route you on a highway for an exit or two but there'd typically be no reason at all to do that to get from drop-off to nearest parking spot.... (and honestly I can't even recall why we care again?)

BTW, if you can't find on-street then parking in NYC is crazy expensive- it might actually make more sense for the car to just continually circle the block for the hour it takes you to eat than for it to go into park seek mode anyway :)




No. Never in production. But it could be make to be. YouTube has videos of people who made there own. From a project standpoint it's not too complex.

What a youtuber can rig up is nice, but if it's not a thing Tesla has shown any intent or interest in actually making, for many years now, I'm again unsure why it's even coming up? They once had a pull-in battery swap station too, and that one was actually functional.... but it was also abandoned a long time ago and isn't coming back.


There are various cities/states/countries that are going to require wireless charging for areas with long taxi ques (like airports) to keep them topped off while they wait.

<citation required>

I've never even heard a SUGGESTION of any government "requiring" that.

Current system is fast L2

"fast L2?" That's an oxymoron compared to supercharger speeds.
 
Actually the wording is very clear - no action required from the person in the driver's seat. Notice they don't even call that person a driver, since they are not required to apply to do anything at all for the car to drive from start to its destination. L2 definition required action from the driver whenever the car does something wrong (it doesn't even require the car to ask for a handover).
I'm talking about things like zero intervention drives which are happening regularly with FSD Beta. Given Tesla isn't using SAE terminology, they aren't necessarily strictly held that it must be successful in every drive or that the driver is allowed to not pay attention or to sleep. Eventually zero intervention drives will become the majority, then become almost the norm with exceptions being very rare (this may cause problems with driver complacency, but that's a whole different discussion).
Ok, if we apply this type of literal interpretation (which I would not put past Tesla, as they have done things like this in the past), then FSD is delivered, geofenced to runway-like, straight,100ft strip of the Tesla Freemont factory perimeter road. FSD L4 delivered (according to you, since the wording didn't say anywhere that it would work outside of the Freemont factory, right?). Not much different that AP1 "find you anywhere on private property" but delivered with a caveat "as long as that property is in a straight line forward or backwards up to 20ft away from the car, and you hold a dead-man-switch while the car is moving", they never originally said it would work on any private property, right?
If it turns into a legal battle over those promises, I imagine it will come down to similar interpretations. A 100ft strip at the factory is an extreme, but limiting it to parking lots is a very reasonable limitation (that SAE documents even point out as a probable feature for L4). Just saying somehow interpreting that line to mean highways because of a hypothetical situation of a parking space in a different city is a huge stretch in the other direction.
 
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Yes, I have a new Model S, and there is no USS. And, there is no Park Assist. And, there is no 'you are 12" from the wall in front of you". I don't know how big this care is because I can't see the end of the hood. Where is my Park Assist?
You need update 2023.6.9 or newer to get Vision park assist.
I'm putting a box against the shelves that I've been hitting. When I hit the box, I'll stop the car (9" from the shelves). It's really, really annoying not knowing where the front of the car is.
Turn on your rear view camera as you are pulling in and use the line that separates your driveway with your garage as a reference point for how far to pull in. You can even add a piece of tape to the ground as a reference point. This is what I do when I park in a spot where USS can't be used as a reference point. I mainly pull in enough so that I can open the trunk without it banging on the garage door (or vice versa, with either fully opened or closed).

Details on how to show rear view camera when going forward (should be similar for Model S):
Tesla replacing ultrasonic sensors with Tesla Vision