Tesla replacing ultrasonic sensors with Tesla Vision

[GlmnAlyAirCar]

I agree they absolutely work on the highway with my 2015 Model S. When a large truck rides up next to me and drifts closer into my lane, the radar detects it and moves my car away from that truck.

I think you meant ultrasonics.

 

[mongo]

A bunch of post it notes stuck to the road maliciously can take you into the ditch. No need to buy Partycity stuff!

Well it is needed for a ballon basketball edge case test...

Self-Driving Issues

 

[dramsey]

I think you are completely ignoring the point many are making in this thread, which is Tesla should first fix the software, then remove the sensors.

I'd guess that's what they planned to do. Component orders like ultrasonic sensors must be placed months in advance. So Elon, as usual, grossly underestimated how long it would take to get the software done-- so Tesla Vision could replace the ultrasonic sensors, but by the time they realized it, the supply of sensors had run out.

Probably the same thing that happened when they got rid of the rain sensor on the 2016 refresh cars, or the radar, etc. etc...

 

[_Redshift_]

No, it is not activated. I recently noticed high beam was on as I pulled into the garage one night. It turned out to be a misaligned drivers side headlight, which I corrected by adjusting the headlights fom the menu (neat feature, adjusting headlights from the screen).

However, I need to try it out more at night to verify the auto high beams. I’d hate it if they are on automatically.

I tested whether the auto high beam was on when I engaged EAP and it was not.

 

[jmcdono362]

I think you meant ultrasonics.

Yes, thank you. That's what I meant.

 

[LorentzTorque]

I know some people drove cars without sensors back in the day.

I keep seeing statements like this... Is 2018 back in the day? Because my 2018 Mazda3 doesn't have ultrasonics. Even having a back-up camera was a big change for me. I'm sure many higher-end cars have had sensors like these for quite a while (and with their price range, this absolutely should include Tesla vehicles), but I don't think you can realistically claim that even a simple majority of drivers have these sensors in their cars.

That being said, I do agree with many of the points in this thread. I think it's a mistake to remove these sensors, especially when they have to remove functionality because the intended replacement isn't ready (reserving judgment on whether that's even feasible). It's undeniably a downgrade at this point. I got my VIN on Wednesday and found out about this change minutes later. When I asked, the SA confirmed that my car will come without sensors. I did find that disappointing, but it's still an enormous increase in driver assistance features for me, so I don't see this as a dealbreaker. I certainly never had any intention of relying on these sensors to the extent that I'd be running over children and puppies if one of them failed. The number of those kinds of statements that I've seen related to this change really concerns me....

@Mark II, with regard to your comment about the hood geometry -- is the visibility really that much worse than any other car? The only visibility issues I noticed on the test drive were with the mirrors, which I determined could be alleviated by looking more thoroughly over my shoulder if the camera failed for whatever reason. I've never had a great view of what's in front of the bumper of any car, beyond where the hood drops off.

I'll let you know about any compensating features that may have been added. I think they would have mentioned something like that to alleviate the backlash, though.

 

[eli_]

Backup cameras are common because they're government mandated now, but parking sensors are not, they're only installed on 17% of the fleet. Often they're sold as dealer-installed addons.

 

[SteveM3Perf]

Backup cameras are common because they're government mandated now, but parking sensors are not, they're only installed on 17% of the fleet. Often they're sold as dealer-installed addons.

I guess people could still fit aftermarket ultrasonic sensor system - although that would potentially ruin look of bumpers and costs extra to fix something that Tesla just broke!
We just got the email from Tesla that our M3P has been allocated to us - so expect this not to have USS.
For me, the worst thing about all this situation is the BS spouted by Tesla as to the reasons they removed USS in this way - without having a solution ready first!
They spend too much time chasing end of quarter delivery targets and not enough time in engineering changes properly!

 

[Undecided_2]

I have seen humans swerve and brake for plastic bags. So they are not all that great either. I think many humans are also still in Beta

Sadly that’s the bulk of drivers on roads and that’s why we have so many sensors/driving aids.

 

[DrGriz]

@Mark II, with regard to your comment about the hood geometry -- is the visibility really that much worse than any other car? The only visibility issues I noticed on the test drive were with the mirrors, which I determined could be alleviated by looking more thoroughly over my

It's worse than any other vehicle I've owned (since the 1960s) and it's worse for my wife who has a shorter torso, longer legs. Nissan Leaf is just as bad. So, yeah.

 

[Del Schier]

Sounds like a way to replace hardware with software to make cheaper cars.

 

[JulienW]

Just throw in my <2¢ worth again.

I'm fine with FSD Beta NOT using the USS to navigate. However I still want USS for when I'm tight parking or driving in a parking deck. FSD will NEVER be able to find my convoluted parking spot inside the parking deck unless it is allowed to "remember" several complex and different routes without any GPS. And even if this ever happens it will be many MANY years from now. There is a lot of manual USS driving to do in the interim.

So remove USS from FSD Beta but DON'T remove USS from the cars or manual driving.

 

[cliff harris]

I suggest everyone do what I did, and email tesla's press email and tell them exactly what we think of this stupid decision. Maybe eventually they might bother reading emails and notice how absolutely arrogant and stupid this is.
They are not the only EV manufacturer, and its already hard to justify the model Y price tag for its spartan and frankly cheap feeling interior. Removing basic functionality is ridiculous.
We still don't have the bumper-sensor to open the boot by waving your foot under the car, or corner-tilting headlights. This is tech found on much cheaper cars...
I love my 2015 model S, but Tesla are doing everything they can to lose me as a customer.

 

[mongo]

Removing basic functionality is ridiculous.
We still don't have the bumper-sensor to open the boot by waving your foot under the car, or corner-tilting headlights. This is tech found on much cheaper cars...

By corner tilting, do you adaptive beam headlights which were only approved this year? NHTSA to Allow Adaptive Driving Beam Headlights on New Vehicles, Improving Safety for Drivers, Pedestrians, and Cyclists | NHTSA
Tesla is phasing in matrix headlight (and updated interior). Matrix Headlights on LR Y?

As to USS, the functionality is object distance information, the sensors are a means to achieve that.

 

[BierNut]

By corner tilting, do you adaptive beam headlights which were only approved this year? NHTSA to Allow Adaptive Driving Beam Headlights on New Vehicles, Improving Safety for Drivers, Pedestrians, and Cyclists | NHTSA
Tesla is phasing in matrix headlight (and updated interior). Matrix Headlights on LR Y?

As to USS, the functionality is object distance information, the sensors are a means to achieve that.

I believe they are referring to curve-adaptive headlights, which have been around for years (my 2015 Jag has them).

Adaptive driving beam headlights are a bit different to several other “adaptive headlight” features that have been approved in the U.S for some time.

Short article on the different features of adaptive headlights: How do Adaptive Headlights Work? Are Adaptive Headlights Worth It?

 

[Mardak]

I still want USS for when I'm tight parking or driving in a parking deck

Sounds like you believe Tesla Vision won't be able to provide the same or even better functionality than ultrasonic sensors in these situations? What in particular do you think would be missing for manual driving?

 

[mongo]

S/X had turning beams in 2016
Adaptive headlight?

 

[jmcdono362]

I suggest everyone do what I did, and email tesla's press email and tell them exactly what we think of this stupid decision. Maybe eventually they might bother reading emails and notice how absolutely arrogant and stupid this is.
They are not the only EV manufacturer, and its already hard to justify the model Y price tag for its spartan and frankly cheap feeling interior. Removing basic functionality is ridiculous.
We still don't have the bumper-sensor to open the boot by waving your foot under the car, or corner-tilting headlights. This is tech found on much cheaper cars...
I love my 2015 model S, but Tesla are doing everything they can to lose me as a customer.

I still love my 2015 Model S P90DL too. Tesla seems to give us more reasons every day to keep our old cars.

 

[JulienW]

Sounds like you believe Tesla Vision won't be able to provide the same or even better functionality than ultrasonic sensors in these situations? What in particular do you think would be missing for manual driving?

FACT: Vision is NOT ready to replace the USS.

• Vision doesn't measure the distance from an object and beep/display on the screen in inches/centimeters.
• Vision will not do Summon and AutoPark features.

Here is a pic and are you saying that Vision can accurately tell in inches/centimeters how close my bumper is to this bollard? Can you judge it by vision? I don't believe Vision can every use this picture info to determine the exact distance it is. Even if if can be done IT IS NOT READY YET. So don't remove the USS until Vision is proven ready.

 

[OxBrew]

Sounds like you believe Tesla Vision won't be able to provide the same or even better functionality than ultrasonic sensors in these situations? What in particular do you think would be missing for manual driving?

I will happily allow that they may equal USS with vision at some point. I think the point is, develop the solution to equal or better the existing functionality, THEN delete the sensors if you must.

Except for dirty and wet cameras, I fail to see how they deal with that. But I'm pragmatic and live in the real world, not the world of hype, so I guess I don't get it.