Tesla Sale Scam??

[p10000d]

I'm selling my model 3 performance (2022). Posted it on facebook, craigslist.

A dealer from Portland, ME calls me up and offers me 70k for the car. I have a loan on the car. They say they will come pick it up, pay me with a bank check for 15k. They ask me to sign the bill of sale and the transfer of ownership and they will take the car. They said they would like me to transfer ownership in the app but if not I will be responsible for the charging costs.

My bank has the title and will only release it if the lien is paid off. Dealership says they will pay the bank the balance directly and get the title.

I called and verified that its a real dealership. They have a website, phone numbers match. Caller ID matches the names from the dealership. Google maps shows them on street view.

It sounds legit but I am wary about handing over the car before they have paid off the lien. Then again, they can't do anything with the car until the lien is paid and the title is released.

Any thoughts?

 

[E-Bunny]

If you walk into CarMax or any other dealer, this is exactly how the transaction would be taking place. Agree on a price, They call the bank to find out payoff amount, you sign the paperwork and they write a check to you for anything over the payoff amount. not sure of what you are concerned about here

 

[dmh444]

I don't know anything about this dealership you're mentioning. I do know fraudster will go through hurdles to make you think it's a legit business.
Personally, I wouldn't hand over my car to anyone until all liens are paid off and/or checks are 100% cleared and funds are in the account (unless it's a reputable nationwide business such as Carmax, Vroom, Shift, etc.)
All I can say is go with your guts.
Good luck and keep us updated.

 

[HankLloydRight]

I don't know anything about this dealership you're mentioning. I do know fraudster will go through hurdles to make you think it's a legit business.
Personally, I wouldn't hand over my car to anyone until all liens are paid off and/or checks are 100% cleared and funds are in the account (unless it's a reputable nationwide business such as Carmax, Vroom, Shift, etc.)
All I can say is go with your guts.
Good luck and keep us updated.

This. Entirely this.

. Then again, they can't do anything with the car until the lien is paid and the title is released.

They can pay you $15k with a bad check, then payoff the bank for the remaining loan balance and they would own the car free and clear (and disappear).

I'd tell them sure, send me a check for $70k, I'll deposit it and wait TWO WEEKS for it to clear.
Once cleared, I'll pay off the bank and then you can pick up the car with the title and bill of sale.

 

[p10000d]

They backed out when I started asking for more details and paperwork before moving forward.

 

[thesmokingman]

They backed out when I started asking for more details and paperwork before moving forward.

Yea, good thing. It smelled. It's one thing when you "walk into" a carmax and they do it for you and cut you a check on the spot. It's a whole other bag of BS if they expect you to just give them your car, trusting that they pay it off.

 

[acarney]

They could also pay you with a bad check, turn around and sell the car to someone else, take their $10k down payment while they “pay off the bank to be able to transfer the car” and then disappear.

I believe someone on these message boards “bought” a car that actually was from Turo or something and was out $10-$15k for awhile… I think they recovered most their money, but it was long and not easy if I recall.

 

[dmh444]

They backed out when I started asking for more details and paperwork before moving forward.

good thing you pressed harder. glad you didn't get scammed.

 

[Daekwan]

This. Entirely this.


They can pay you $15k with a bad check, then payoff the bank for the remaining loan balance and they would own the car free and clear (and disappear).

I'd tell them sure, send me a check for $70k, I'll deposit it and wait TWO WEEKS for it to clear.
Once cleared, I'll pay off the bank and then you can pick up the car with the title and bill of sale.

So here is my thinking. If you have a bill of sale or another receipt for the agreed price and this happens.. can't you just report the car as stolen. And let your insurance company + police go after the scammer. After all, they never actually paid for the vehicle. And I don't see how this is any different than a random car theft stealing your car out your driveway. After all the theft didn't pay for it either. Its a vehicle, with a VIN and needs to be registered in some state to be driven legally. Its not like the car is just going to disappear.

Granted I've always sold my cars privately for cash or via a cashier's check from a bank I trust.. so I'm not wasting their time or my time waiting two weeks for anything to clear. I've also sold cars to local dealers and immediately walked away with a bank check with no questions whatsoever. But it just seems like trying to scam someone out of a vehicle would be ALOT harder than writing a fake/bad check and running off with the vehicle.

 

[thesmokingman]

But it just seems like trying to scam someone out of a vehicle would be ALOT harder than writing a fake/bad check and running off with the vehicle.

It happens more often that you think. Recently on here someone was scammed into unkowningly buying a rental. Buyer paid the scammer like 20k-30k, rest by cashiers. The car was then repossed by the rental company leaving buyer out is down payment after luckily getting his cashiers stopped in time or returned, forget exactly.

 

[Daekwan]

It happens more often that you think. Recently on here someone was scammed into unkowningly buying a rental. Buyer paid the scammer like 20k-30k, rest by cashiers. The car was then repossed by the rental company leaving buyer out is down payment after luckily getting his chasiers stopped in time or returned, forget exactly.

That's the opposite of my question. My question was if you were selling a car and someone bought YOUR vehicle using a fake/bad check.. wouldn't you be able to report your vehicle as stolen and your insurance company would handle the claim. I don't see how it's that different than any other auto theft.. they just didn't break the windows or hotwire your ignition to steal your vehicle.

 

[thesmokingman]

That's the opposite of my question. My question was if you sere selling a car and someone bought YOUR vehicle using a fake/bad check.. wouldn't you be able to report your vehicle as stolen and your insurance company would handle the claim. I don't see how it's that different than any other auto theft.. they just didn't break the windows or hotwire your ignition to steal your vehicle.

It's the same but different. Read the OP again. The scammer wanted him to remove the car from his account. If the OP went along and did this, there would be no more tracking of the car. It's not actually theft, it's FRAUD. I think you're hung up on this GTA aspect.

 

[Daekwan]

It's the same but different. Read the OP again. The scammer wanted him to remove the car from his account. If the OP went along and did this, there would be no more tracking of the car. It's not actually theft, it's FRAUD. I think you're hung up on this GTA aspect.

You are still not answering my question.

If someone bought your car with a fake/bad check.. would your insurance company handle this claim? Label it whatever term you want.. would they handle it?

 

[Freshness]

This is honestly how vehicles are sold. I sold my car to a relatively smaller and unknown vehicle buying website. Of course, I had to deposit their BofA check and wait for it to clear, but I have seen their Yelp page and Google reviews and decided that it was worth it to bite the bullet. Within 8 days my loan was showing as paid.

In the event the check didn't clear, there is a system of checks and balances in place that would assure that i'd get my car back, both with the police and my insurance company.

The two weeks it takes is the process of the bank RELEASING the title. Having the DMV actually issue the title to you and changing the lienholder interest away from the bank takes MONTHS. You scared the buyer away because they'd be putting money up front for a car they can't sell for months, nor have in their posession to pre-sell, and list online.. You expected someone to pay you in advance for a car and trust YOU? The person without a dealer Iicense/website etc?

Having them pay the bank directly allows the bank to send the title directly to them with your power of attorney. Having them pay the bank and release the title to you, gives them zero recourse in the event you are the scammer.

Listen to yourself first before posting these things. If I am the dealer, i'm thinking, wow this guy wants us to pay off his car for free and keep his car...

 

[Freshness]

Imagine being dumb enough to steal a car with a magnificent paper trail behind it-- that leads law enforcement directly to your doorstep.

 

[acarney]

Imagine being dumb enough to steal a car with a magnificent paper trail behind it-- that leads law enforcement directly to your doorstep.

Not really... could be a fake check and there aren't a lot of official papers until they're sent out....

Turn around and "sell" the car to someone else that gives you $5,000 cash down payment or something and now you disappear with $5k and the police show up to the new guy a few days later when the car is reported stolen, etc...

Sort of the same with the guy that was sold a Turo rental, except remove Turo from it and instead scam a guy selling his Tesla and someone buying a Tesla. Hell, they might have a buyer lined up already and "flip" your car same day once they have it to drive by to the new guy and show it to him and get his down payment, etc.

 

[Freshness]

Not really... could be a fake check and there aren't a lot of official papers until they're sent out....

Turn around and "sell" the car to someone else that gives you $5,000 cash down payment or something and now you disappear with $5k and the police show up to the new guy a few days later when the car is reported stolen, etc...

Sort of the same with the guy that was sold a Turo rental, except remove Turo from it and instead scam a guy selling his Tesla and someone buying a Tesla. Hell, they might have a buyer lined up already and "flip" your car same day once they have it to drive by to the new guy and show it to him and get his down payment, etc.

Rental sales scams are totally different. Typically starting with a replica pink slip which is already in hand and you're buying directly from a seller with almost no bank involvement. Mostly involves a car priced well below wholesale value, and is largely a cash transaction.

This situation is totally different, they still have to pay off the Lienholder. That payment can be traced quite easily.

I am coming here as someone with experience in dealing with online car buyers. Sold 4 this year alone. In this particular scenario we are working with a legit dealership clearly, as the OP had already done his homework.

But he was scared away from executing because of other members here speaking about lore and fairy tales from Youtube videos involving Turo.

 

[Freshness]

It's the same but different. Read the OP again. The scammer wanted him to remove the car from his account. If the OP went along and did this, there would be no more tracking of the car. It's not actually theft, it's FRAUD. I think you're hung up on this GTA aspect.

He gave him the option of doing so. It was not contingent upon completing the sale.

 

[p10000d]

Will never know for sure… but they started showing hesitancy in completing the deal when I said I’d wait until the car was paid off to transfer the ownership in the App.

 

[Freshness]

Will never know for sure… but they started showing hesitancy in completing the deal when I said I’d wait until the car was paid off to transfer the ownership in the App.

So here’s some good information that may be useful.

These smaller car buying dealerships are trying to presell your car as fast as humanly possible. They’re putting up all the money up front, but likely will send your car to an auction or an email list with the photos you have sent them and get bids.

Chances are when they sent an offer and opened dialogue, they already had a buyer on the line.

My 2022 Model Y was sold on June 25th and is already at a Nissan dealership for sale 7k more than I sold it for. The company/dealership that bought my car was based in TX and brokered it to a franchise dealership in AZ.

It’s been all of two weeks.

A lot of times, these dealers operate nationwide because all they need are photos of the car and can then sell it for a small profit to whomever needs it. They have very little overhead compared to franchise dealers, and are happy making just a little bit.

Their apprehensiveness is likely because it would cause a delay in their process.

Nonetheless, if you didn’t feel comfortable selling it to them then they didn’t do a good job. But that doesn’t mean they are scamming you.