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Tesla Sales Banned in New Jersey... hopefully not for long!

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Tesla Sales Banned in New Jersey

wow, a whole bunch money, time and efforts could be saved if the parties in this matter would just accept your proclamation as legally binding.

You are special. No reason to be rude. I didn't say it was legally binding. You mean time, money and effort I assume.

Again, please tell us your secret to solve this problem in New Jersey. You've refused in the past stating that you are an expert on this issue but don't want to tell us how it should be handled. Very helpful.
 
wow, a whole bunch money, time and efforts could be saved if the parties in this matter would just accept your proclamation as legally binding.
@dsm - Whether he's being sarcastic or not, he's right. Sometimes it's nice to dream that we live in such a world where sanity prevails early and a whole bunch of time, talent, and treasure is not needlessly sacrificed to entropy.
 
You are special. No reason to be rude. I didn't say it was legally binding. You mean time, money and effort I assume.

Again, please tell us your secret to solve this problem in New Jersey. You've refused in the past stating that you are an expert on this issue but don't want to tell us how it should be handled. Very helpful.
I have no secret solution, nor have I ever stated that I have one, what I do have is a greater understanding of the way trenton works and of how to interact with the state officials who can rule over your fate. I have seen what tesla did many times over and the way they approached things will almost always result with the same disappointing results.
As for divulging the recipe for success, does Mcdonalds give away the secret sauce? does KFC tell you what the 11 herbs and spices are and Coke keeps their formula more secure than the gold in Ft Knox.

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@dsm - Whether he's being sarcastic or not, he's right. Sometimes it's nice to dream that we live in such a world where sanity prevails early and a whole bunch of time, talent, and treasure is not needlessly sacrificed to entropy.
you must realize that tesla is entangled with bureaucracy and even worse, it's NJ bureaucracy
 
Moving along. I attended the 100th SC ribbon cutting in Hamilton, NJ today. Presided over by J. Chen. One piece of info I learned today is that Pennsylvania auto dealers are getting together to try to put together action to block direct sales there. Currently direct sales model is OK in PA.
 
@dsm - Whether he's being sarcastic or not, he's right. Sometimes it's nice to dream that we live in such a world where sanity prevails early and a whole bunch of time, talent, and treasure is not needlessly sacrificed to entropy.

I said 'hope' the commerce clause applies in the first post anyway to that got interpreted as me saying the FTC had a strong legal basis to take action. I know common sense has little to do with how things normally work in politics.
 
Moving along. I attended the 100th SC ribbon cutting in Hamilton, NJ today. Presided over by J. Chen. One piece of info I learned today is that Pennsylvania auto dealers are getting together to try to put together action to block direct sales there. Currently direct sales model is OK in PA.
I haven't a clue as to how powerful the dealers group is in PA but I'd be very surprised if they were able to block direct sales in PA

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I suspect you missed the word "dream" in my post, and possibly misunderstood most of the content as well.
my sarcasm doesn't convey well in a print format

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I said 'hope' the commerce clause applies in the first post anyway to
that "hoping" is tesla's only hope at this point, and lacking legislative relief, the cost of that "hoping" is a long arduous trip through the state and federal courts.
 
wow, a whole bunch money, time and efforts could be saved if the parties in this matter would just accept your proclamation as legally binding.

my sarcasm doesn't convey well in a print format

Generally speaking that sort of thing is much harder to convey on the Internet; however, I don't think the sarcasm was missed in this case. What really isn't clear is whether your sarcasm is intended to agree with or to insult the previous poster.

It's generally a good idea to try and elevate and enlighten the discussion, rather than drag it down.

I have no secret solution, nor have I ever stated that I have one, what I do have is a greater understanding of the way trenton works and of how to interact with the state officials who can rule over your fate. I have seen what tesla did many times over and the way they approached things will almost always result with the same disappointing results.
As for divulging the recipe for success, does Mcdonalds give away the secret sauce? does KFC tell you what the 11 herbs and spices are and Coke keeps their formula more secure than the gold in Ft Knox.

I seem to recall from previous postings that you're somewhat "retired" from doing that these days? If that is true, and you're not inclined to get back into it, then there's nothing to lose by sharing a little.

Otherwise your approach isn't coming off very well. It's like shouting out "I've got a secret!" all the time. It would be helpful if instead you were to give a simple example of how to better approach the situation. It's not like you have to give away all of your "secret sauce". A little "flavor" would do far more to move the discussion forward.
 
Generally speaking that sort of thing is much harder to convey on the Internet; however, I don't think the sarcasm was missed in this case. What really isn't clear is whether your sarcasm is intended to agree with or to insult the previous poster.

It's generally a good idea to try and elevate and enlighten the discussion, rather than drag it down.

not to be argumentative,

but is it your job around here to be arrogant?
am I entitled to post my opinion here or am I not?
you may not like me or my views but if this is a forum for the exchange of ideas, comments like the one you just posted are the ones that don't belong

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I seem to recall from previous postings that you're somewhat "retired" from doing that these days? If that is true, and you're not inclined to get back into it, then there's nothing to lose by sharing a little.
I don't know what it is that you do for a living but I can be fairly certain that you or the people who employ you are not in the habit of giving away the benefits of experience and expertise without compensation, in other words ( and I know this will piss off all the idealists) if there is nothing in it for me why should I do it?
 
not to be argumentative,

but is it your job around here to be arrogant?
am I entitled to post my opinion here or am I not?
you may not like me or my views but if this is a forum for the exchange of ideas, comments like the one you just posted are the ones that don't belong

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I don't know what it is that you do for a living but I can be fairly certain that you or the people who employ you are not in the habit of giving away the benefits of experience and expertise without compensation, in other words ( and I know this will piss off all the idealists) if there is nothing in it for me why should I do it?

Then why keep posting in this thread? You have nothing new to add other than to state that what they are doing wont work.
 
since the FTC has no powers to regulate car sales in NJ it is irrelevant

This is incorrect. The FTC is mandated to regulate and enforce Federal laws governing trade in the United States, and New Jersey is in the United States. Further and specifically, its "principal mission is the promotion of consumer protection and the elimination and prevention of anticompetitive business practices." If the FTC chooses to intervene on anticompetitive grounds, they certainly have explicit authority to do so. They would certainly take their time and solicit comment and feedback while cooperating with US DOJ, the White House and Congressional committee oversight, but they certainly can act:

FTC said:
When the FTC was created in 1914, its purpose was to prevent unfair methods of competition in commerce as part of the battle to “bust the trusts.” Over the years, Congress passed additional laws giving the agency greater authority to police anticompetitive practices. In 1938, Congress passed a broad prohibition against “unfair and deceptive acts or practices.” Since then, the Commission also has been directed to administer a wide variety of other consumer protection laws, including the Telemarketing Sales Rule, the Pay-Per-Call Rule and the Equal Credit Opportunity Act. In 1975, Congress gave the FTC the authority to adopt industry-wide trade regulation rules.

However, I believe what is more important in this development is that state governments often take legislative and legal signals from guidance and actions like this at the Federal level. The fact that the FTC has turned its eye to this (which I believed was inevitable) is a HUGE positive indicator for Tesla Motors investors, as it sends a clear message of Federal intent, which can often be even more important than a specific legal ruling.

A very good day for consumers who desire fair access to Tesla Motors products, not such a good one for Chris Christie and other politicians betting on the shallow pocketbooks of the NADA to bail them out of the wrong side of history and public opinion on this issue.
 
Then why keep posting in this thread? You have nothing new to add other than to state that what they are doing wont work.
it's called a dialog, someone makes a comment, then I make a comment, then another comment is made and voila there is a forum breaking out

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This is incorrect. The FTC is mandated to regulate and enforce Federal laws governing trade in the United States, and New Jersey is in the United States. Further and specifically, its "principal mission is the promotion of consumer protection and the elimination and prevention of anticompetitive business practices." If the FTC chooses to intervene on anticompetitive grounds, they certainly have explicit authority to do so. They would certainly take their time and solicit comment and feedback while cooperating with US DOJ, the White House and Congressional committee oversight, but they certainly can act:



However, I believe what is more important in this development is that state governments often take legislative and legal signals from guidance and actions like this at the Federal level. The fact that the FTC has turned its eye to this (which I believed was inevitable) is a HUGE positive indicator for Tesla Motors investors, as it sends a clear message of Federal intent, which can often be even more important than a specific legal ruling.

A very good day for consumers who desire fair access to Tesla Motors products, not such a good one for Chris Christie and other politicians betting on the shallow pocketbooks of the NADA to bail them out of the wrong side of history and public opinion on this issue.
maybe your assessment is correct, now all you need to do is prove it
it would look better if you had your facts correct, if I am not mistaken the NADA is not involved in this
if you read the disclaimer at the end of the posting on the FTC site it is clear that the FTC understands the limitations of their powers to interverne

Andy is the Director of the Office of Policy Planning, Debbie is the Director of the Bureau of Competition, and Marty is the Director of the Bureau of Economics. The views expressed are their own, and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the Commission or of any individual Commissioner.
 
I don't know what it is that you do for a living but I can be fairly certain that you or the people who employ you are not in the habit of giving away the benefits of experience and expertise without compensation, in other words ( and I know this will piss off all the idealists) if there is nothing in it for me why should I do it?

I am an professional engineer and own a company that makes scientific imaging systems. In the past we have given away significant intellectual property in the form of interface designs and program source code. We donated it to an effort to create a standardized open interface that all products in our segment can share. This initiative helped build a network of compatible systems that have benefited all users and vendors. We benefited indirectly from this, in that a rising tide floats all boats.

Is there anything "in it for you" in participating in this forum? If not, then why are you doing it?
 
I am an professional engineer and own a company that makes scientific imaging systems. In the past we have given away significant intellectual property in the form of interface designs and program source code. We donated it to an effort to create a standardized open interface that all products in our segment can share. This initiative helped build a network of compatible systems that have benefited all users and vendors. We benefited indirectly from this, in that a rising tide floats all boats.

Is there anything "in it for you" in participating in this forum? If not, then why are you doing it?
that is great that you've donated so much intellectual property to the imaging systems community, did someone from the community shame you, intimidate you or demand your donation in any way shape or form of was the transfer of knowledge given freely? for the sake of making my point I will assume that you freely without pressure gave away your intellectual property. why would you and how dare you demand that I give away anything away?
as for my participation in this forum, is there a prerequisite that I somewhat missed or is free participation only open to sycophants of the popular views?
 
that is great that you've donated so much intellectual property to the imaging systems community, did someone from the community shame you, intimidate you or demand your donation in any way shape or form of was the transfer of knowledge given freely? for the sake of making my point I will assume that you freely without pressure gave away your intellectual property. why would you and how dare you demand that I give away anything away?

Donating that was really a no-brainer, in that the community was being held back by a lack of standardization.

Funny how you spin things to such an extreme. I made no "demands". I simply stated that it would be a more positive way to contribute to the forum to give just a small taste of how you would approach the problem.

From a self-interested perspective, many professionals and companies give away a small taste of their offerings in order to attract business. Starbucks gives free samples. Service companies provide free advice on their web site, to show how they can help you with your problem so maybe you'll hire them. That sort of thing.

as for my participation in this forum, is there a prerequisite that I somewhat missed or is free participation only open to sycophants of the popular views?

When did I disagree with your views? I've simply asked if maybe you could provide even one positive example of how to do it right, rather than simply saying that anything that anybody else proposes will never work.
 
Moving along. I attended the 100th SC ribbon cutting in Hamilton, NJ today. Presided over by J. Chen. One piece of info I learned today is that Pennsylvania auto dealers are getting together to try to put together action to block direct sales there. Currently direct sales model is OK in PA.

Good: 100th SuperCharger. Didn't realize there were that many now.

Bad: One state's auto dealers assoc. manages to twist enough political arms to put up a competitive roadblock, so other states auto dealers associations naturally say "Hey, why don't we try?"
 
The importance of the article by FTC staff is that a disinterested third party expert in "competition" strongly supports Tesla's position. The auto dealer cartel's arguments about how franchise laws are necessary for competition and consumer protection are debunked by the federal agency that is responsible for competition and consumer protection. It says Tesla and potential future companies like it are the competition, but they can only provide such competition if there are not protectionist state laws that protect the dealer establishment.

Any auto dealer lobbyist or their pet legislator who talks about competition, consumer protection, etc. as if it's the dealers who provide that can now be responded to by quoting FTC staff:
"We hope lawmakers will recognize efforts by auto dealers and others to bar new sources of competition for what they are—expressions of a lack of confidence in the competitive process that can only make consumers worse off." It will now be obvious that legislators who defend the current closed franchise system are in auto dealer cartel's pocket as their position can't be justified otherwise. Some may see it's a lost cause.

I think Tesla supporters in all the problem states should email this FTC blog post to their state legislators.
 
Generally speaking that sort of thing is much harder to convey on the Internet; however, I don't think the sarcasm was missed in this case. What really isn't clear is whether your sarcasm is intended to agree with or to insult the previous poster.

It's generally a good idea to try and elevate and enlighten the discussion, rather than drag it down.



I seem to recall from previous postings that you're somewhat "retired" from doing that these days? If that is true, and you're not inclined to get back into it, then there's nothing to lose by sharing a little.

Otherwise your approach isn't coming off very well. It's like shouting out "I've got a secret!" all the time. It would be helpful if instead you were to give a simple example of how to better approach the situation. It's not like you have to give away all of your "secret sauce". A little "flavor" would do far more to move the discussion forward.

Apvbguy "secret" must be that he or his relatives are owners of auto dealerships. This would explain his logic perfectly. The rest is a ruse.