Tesla sales rep said MY with 4680 will NOT have longer range

[CMPT PAD]

Just my 2-cents worth
(1) I worked in the chemical and IC industries for 40 yrs, If I reduced manufacturing costs for companies which had been done several times then it's INTERNAL benefits and those savings NEVER passed on to consumers
(2) I need to pee after 200+ miles on highway anyway , so longer range battery than that of MYLR does not mean much to me
(3) Most if not ALL bugs of 2170 battery pack has been worked out, so it's a safer bet than that of 4680

Drive yours and enjoy

 

[Yperformance]

Agree, collect my MYP Sunday and have come round to your point of view.

 

[Firocity]

Just my 2-cents worth
(1) I worked in the chemical and IC industries for 40 yrs, If I reduced manufacturing costs for companies which had been done several times then it's INTERNAL benefits and those savings NEVER passed on to consumers
(2) I need to pee after 200+ miles on highway anyway , so longer range battery than that of MYLR does not mean much to me
(3) Most if not ALL bugs of 2170 battery pack has been worked out, so it's a safer bet than that of 4680

Drive yours and enjoy

Exactly and once there are more chargers between Superchargers and CCS, there will be more places to stop and pee!

 

[Emos]

I just got notified that my new MY-P VIN has been assigned. Sales rep told me that my car has the new Ryzen chip plus all the other new stuff except for the 4680 battery. I live in SoCal so the car is coming out of Fremont. He proceeded to say that the 4680 battery will NOT offer longer range for my MY-P because that would simply "invalidate" all the existing MYs. It makes no sense for Tesla to do so. He explained that 4680 simply allows Tesla to be more efficient in manufacturing the batteries. They would just put FEWER batteries in the car to achieve similar range as before.

I'm currently stuck in deciding if I should postpone my delivery in hopes to get the 4680 battery. But if there's no benefit, then I don't need to wait.

While I understand the business decision to allow room to grow and potentially offer even longer range at a higher price point, can anyone confirm if this is in fact true?

My SA told me last week, the best thing to do is to wait a week before the anticipated VIN assignment, and then request to potpobe the receiving date unyil Jan 1. This givestime for Fremont to adapt to 4680 and we get new tax credit. Right?

 

[ElectricIAC]

My SA told me last week, the best thing to do is to wait a week before the anticipated VIN assignment, and then request to potpobe the receiving date unyil Jan 1. This givestime for Fremont to adapt to 4680 and we get new tax credit. Right?

The first rule of Tesla is to not believe what the sales advisor tells you.

 

[tangible1]

Exactly and once there are more chargers between Superchargers and CCS, there will be more places to stop and pee!

There will be no MYLR, and likely no MYP, delivered near term with 4680 batteries.
Even if a 4680 MYP model were to be offered, it's range will not risk cannibalizing other MY models without a major price bump.

Imagine what the current order holders would do in a scramble to get them, driven by online hype.
Talk about chaos. Tesla production would be turned inside out.
If it's range were extended, then the price would have to be raised - significantly.
That could happen.....but....

4680 battery supplies will be tested with the production of SEMI in Nevada and CT out of Texas.
As a result, we won't see a 4680 MY model very soon.
Yet if we were to see one, the MYP would be a good candidate since it's not as high volume.

At this time, the ONLY reason to delay an order is to capture the 2023 tax rebate.
Other changes to the MY model line are minutiae; online hype is just that - hype.

The MY is a very good vehicle, built with consistently good quality from all factories.
Competitors can't deliver any quantity, and don't offer similar value, particularly in software or charging networks.

 

[ElectricAnt54]

I just got notified that my new MY-P VIN has been assigned. Sales rep told me that my car has the new Ryzen chip plus all the other new stuff except for the 4680 battery. I live in SoCal so the car is coming out of Fremont. He proceeded to say that the 4680 battery will NOT offer longer range for my MY-P because that would simply "invalidate" all the existing MYs. It makes no sense for Tesla to do so. He explained that 4680 simply allows Tesla to be more efficient in manufacturing the batteries. They would just put FEWER batteries in the car to achieve similar range as before.

I'm currently stuck in deciding if I should postpone my delivery in hopes to get the 4680 battery. But if there's no benefit, then I don't need to wait.

While I understand the business decision to allow room to grow and potentially offer even longer range at a higher price point, can anyone confirm if this is in fact true?

Also, there are no MYP or MYLR being made with 4680. You could be waiting a while for the cells to be used in those vehicles.

 

[tangible1]

Also, there are no MYP or MYLR being made with 4680. You could be waiting a while for the cells to be used in those vehicles.

Actually, there ARE MYLR being made with 4680 batteries. They're called MY-AWD.
They just aren't being sold to the general public.
Employees, and possibly some Rental / Fleet buyers, are getting them.

But there's no real volume to these models.
They appear to be test mules to validate production processes and battery performsnce.

 

[ElectricAnt54]

My SA told me last week, the best thing to do is to wait a week before the anticipated VIN assignment, and then request to potpobe the receiving date unyil Jan 1. This givestime for Fremont to adapt to 4680 and we get new tax credit. Right?

This is bad advice. Introducing the limited supply of 4680 cells in to model y production is not going to happen soon. The semi is ramping up production & cyber truck. Those vehicles will get 4680 first since they are heavier and need the energy density.

 

[ElectricAnt54]

Actually, there ARE MYLR being made with 4680 batteries. They're called MY-AWD.
They just aren't being sold to the general public.
Employees, and possibly some Rental / Fleet buyers, are getting them.

But there's no real volume to these models.
They appear to be test mules to validate production processes and battery performsnce.

They are not long range MYLR. The my-awd has significantly less range than today’s MYLR. I also believe they are slightly slower than today’s MYLR. They are / were offered to general public randomly & in low quantity. Not sure if they still offer them to the public even. Tesla was calling people who ordered MYLR and lived in specific areas of country to see if they wanted to change their order.

 

[tangible1]

They are not long range MYLR. The my-and has significantly less range than today’s MYLR. I also believe they are slightly slower than today’s MYLR.

it's just a slightly dumbed-down MYLR in order to avoid the cannibalization of MYLR.
They're test mules. And not available to the GP.

The batteries may or may not be software-limited; the motors most certainly are.
Tesla isn't making separate motors for the MY-AWD than what's in the MYLR.

 

[tangible1]

This is bad advice. Introducing the limited supply of 4680 cells in to model y production is not going to happen soon. The semi is ramping up production & cyber truck. Those vehicles will get 4680 first since they are heavier and need the energy density.

Agreed. 4680 ain't gonna happen for the MY any time soon.
Especially at the current price. That would have to get a significant bump.
Otherwise Tesla's demand problem would get multiplied.

 

[snovvman]

The MY is ..., built with consistently good quality from all factories.

Wait, what?

 

[tangible1]

Wait, what?

yes, true.
Quality is good from any factory; the MY production process has improved quite a bit.
That said, nothing is perfect, there are outliers.
But there are very few complaints compared to 18 months ago, and what's complained about is small potatoes.
Remember, this forum is a magnifier.

 

[holdmybeer]

The answer is I didn't assume. I'm simply hoping for longer range based on all the reports and articles I've seen around recently including many posts on TMC. For example, the newly posted EPA rating for MY and M3 indicate 565KM (351miles) range: 2022 Tesla Model Y Receives Official EPA Range/Efficiency Ratings
and this article where Tesla confirmed that 4680 battery : Giga-Texas Model Y With Structural Batteries And 4680 Cells Confirmed By Tesla | Torque News

Right in the middle of the 2nd article:

"The Giga-Texas Model Y would be able to improve its range by a 30%: these structural batteries, which will become integrated into the vehicle chassis (the central frame will be made up of a huge cast piece made of aluminum), will allow its range to be improved by a 14%, its weight to be reduced by 10% , and to simplify the design and manufacture of the car (as around 370 fewer parts will be used); it will also help increase the rigidity of the "monocoque" chassis.

Taking the Model Y Long Range AWD produced in Fremont as a reference - which announces a range of 512 km EPA - the Giga Texas version could reach 666 km (EPA), improving its range by a 30% (16% by using 4680 cells and 14% by using structural batteries). All in all the final gain would likely be a little bit less, though."

Is it just wishful thinking on my part or the SA is holding out on me?

Personally, I think it is wishful thinking ... as much as I too would love to unlock more range.

I would not hold out for 4680/SBK for the issue of range, but for other reasons. SBK does appear to give some improved rigidity to the car so you may have fewer squeaks and rattles over time. The SBK looks to be easier to swap out (if ever needed). Tesla may slack a few more batteries in the SBK than needed so the range may degrade less over time.

Musk has said before, he would rather lighten the car to improve handling and range per Kwh instead of making longer range cars. Tesla's Elon Musk explains why too much electric vehicle range does not make sense

Rather than saying "The Giga-Texas Model Y would be able to improve its range by 30%", it should say "The Giga-Texas Model Y would be able to improve its range by 30% per Kwh".

Of course, I am just another armchair pundit. Teslas could be running of Mr. Coffee Fusion Reactors next week.

 

[acpd]

Tesla is likely saving all 4680s till 2023, so they could use them for tax credit.

They will likely have multiple MYs. One with and one without tax credit.

If I were to guess:
MYLR - No or limited tax credit
MY-AWD - With Full Tax credit

 

[tangible1]

Tesla is likely saving all 4680s till 2023, so they could use them for tax credit.

They will likely have multiple MYs. One with and one without tax credit.

If I were to guess:
MYLR - No or limited tax credit
MY-AWD - With Full Tax credit

The vast majority of 2170, 18650 and like cells are manufactured in Nevada with equipment owned by both Panasonic and Tesla.
The resources for those are sourced both domestically and internationally.

The resources for 4680 are also both, so far; that won't change until mid-2023 at best. BEST case..
Tesla still needs to finish their factory "Cathode Plant" in Austin, and get deliveries of Lithium Carbonate contracted from a mine in So. Carolina.
Maybe for cars in 2024 .....

Tax credits will depend on whatever Administration is regulating the industry.
The good news is that Tesla is exceptional at mining the Federal Govt for subsidies.

But always remember, Elon time isn't measured via Greenwich Mean Time.

 

[MP3Mike]

The vast majority of 2170, 18650 and like cells are manufactured in Nevada with equipment owned by both Panasonic and Tesla.

Almost. 18650s are still made in Japan by Panasonic. Only 2170s are made in Nevada.

 

[ElectricAnt54]

Tesla is likely saving all 4680s till 2023, so they could use them for tax credit.

They will likely have multiple MYs. One with and one without tax credit.

If I were to guess:
MYLR - No or limited tax credit
MY-AWD - With Full Tax credit

Current model Y vehicles built with 2170 qualifies for a tax credit to the purchaser & tesla too since north American / South American vehicles have 2170 cells made in Reno/Sparks, USA

 

[MP3Mike]

Current model Y vehicles built with 2170 qualifies for tax credits next year.

You can't know that, because you don't know where the minerals come from. Not to mention formal guidance hasn't been released yet. We won't know for sure until the end of the year. (I would say it is fairly safe to say that the Model Y will qualify for $3,750.)