Tesla says 7-13 miles range loss per day is normal

[kort677]

Also today my wife drove it to her office and a 16 mile journey took 20 mi off the car. I tried to tell her that could of been due to weather conditions and such but since she's brand new to EV's she doesn't seem to get it. Am I right that that's just due to weather/wind/road conditions etc?

speed alone will account for that type of usage, factor in headwinds, rain, snow and the numbers will be even worse. to achieve the predicted range you'll need to keep the wh/miles under 285 or so, in other words slow down.

 

[kort677]

Add HVAC use,?

not true at all, cooling uses minimal wh/miles. using the heater will be a range killer

 

[Brass Guy]

not true at all, cooling uses minimal wh/miles. using the heater will be a range killer

FYI the H in HVAC stands for Heating.

 

[tccartier]

not true at all, cooling uses minimal wh/miles. using the heater will be a range killer

My statement was a generalization in that HVAC also includes heating and or heater use my bad I should have been more specific.

 

[kort677]

FYI the H in HVAC stands for Heating.

thank captain obvious, what you've pointed out is true however there are vast differences in hits to the range of the car depending on which system, heating or cooling is being used.

 

[gearchruncher]

As I said previously, my car uses around 2% per day. That's roughly 2 kWh. Or over 24 hours, that's around 80W of consumption. 80W is basically nothing.

I agree that if any system in the car is running, 80W is nothing. But given it is 80W all the time, 24/7, it adds up to a lot more:

80W is:
4X a modern laptop, while it's in use.
10X an iPad, while in use
100X what a modern BMW draws while asleep

80W will drain a standard car battery in about 6 hours.

80W 24/7 is 700kWh a year.
That's 2,300 miles of driving
That's $100 in electricity
That's 21 gallons of gas in energy

For all of that, Tesla says 190W is NORMAL. (5% of a 90kWh battery a day)

190W is 1.6MWh a year. $200 in electricity. 50 gallons of fuel. 800 lbs of coal. Same as driving an extra 5,400 miles a year.

I drive my car about 8,000 miles a year, but it uses 13,500 miles of energy. Suddenly that MPGe isn't 100, it's 60.

 

[sreehyd]

My experience with MX 100D , Aug'2017 delivery car, I lose about 1 mile a day.

if you are loosing more miles possibly it could be 2 reasons.
1) Make sure your Key Fobs are bit far from storage location. In my case onetime i had my keys with me in my office room which is right abouve the garage. The car was active all night and I lost several miles . Didnt remember , But it was as high as 10miles.

2) your 12V battery may have lost capacity and frequently waking up your car for recaharge ? .

Not sure if there are any scenarios ??

I am assuming and also believe it may NOT be firmware releases that may be causing the power drain, If so possibly accross the board .

My OLD MS85, used to loose about 2 to 4 miles/day all along 4 + years of usage. It varied with 12V battery condition.

 

[comanchepilot]

that's quite a vampire load . . .

This will be interesting if my wife drives to LAX on a Monday and comes back on Thurs even - meaning 5 days parks. So you lose 5% a day so you're down from 71.6 [the useful charge in a 75] to 57.6, leaving 160 miles or so of real work range - and its 115 round trip - part of the reason we're buying the car is to eliminate range anxiety for THAT round trip for her.

Question about the car phoning home all the time:

I know the car is going to have the modem - and it can phone home - does it also have a wifi modem? Can you hook it up to your wifi so its only phoning home at home?

 

[a4refillpad]

Wow, this thread is somewhat worrying. I'm waiting on a December delivery but this vampire drain is just incredible. I've also got an i3 which I constantly check in with and over the last 3 years have noticed almost zero vampire drain. In fact, I've once left the i3 on a 75% charge at an airport carpark for 2 weeks and saw less than 5% difference when I picked it up and this was in winter too! Is there something inherently wrong with the tech in the tesla to cause this?!

 

[DarkMatter]

Nope. There's a variety of reasons that the car can use extra energy, which get sort of muddied up because people don't always know all the bits that go in to troubleshooting it. Without keys in range, without extremes of temperature, with no app hitting the API, and with Energy Saving on, power loss should be quite low. Add up a few of these things and you can lose a fair bit of power.

Also to the other poster who said the Tesla cannot cool the battery below ambient, here is a reference thread: Is Battery Cooling activated while driving if AC isn't on?

 

[Electric700]

I agree that if any system in the car is running, 80W is nothing. But given it is 80W all the time, 24/7, it adds up to a lot more:

80W is:
4X a modern laptop, while it's in use.
10X an iPad, while in use
100X what a modern BMW draws while asleep

80W will drain a standard car battery in about 6 hours.

80W 24/7 is 700kWh a year.
That's 2,300 miles of driving
That's $100 in electricity
That's 21 gallons of gas in energy

For all of that, Tesla says 190W is NORMAL. (5% of a 90kWh battery a day)

190W is 1.6MWh a year. $200 in electricity. 50 gallons of fuel. 800 lbs of coal. Same as driving an extra 5,400 miles a year.

I drive my car about 8,000 miles a year, but it uses 13,500 miles of energy. Suddenly that MPGe isn't 100, it's 60.

Isn't 80 W about 5 miles / day of loss? I think it's possible to use less as other members are seeing about 1-2 miles per day of range loss:

1. Set Energy Saving to On
2. Leave Always connected off
3. Make sure your keys are far away from your car (so that it doesn't remain awake, which will use additional energy)

 

[Rocky_H]

Nope. There's a variety of reasons that the car can use extra energy, which get sort of muddied up because people don't always know all the bits that go in to troubleshooting it.

Also, people very frequently make the mistake of looking at how much it loses on the first day, and think that's a constant, and multiply by 20 or 30 days. They don't know or take into account the vehicle going into sleep and deeper sleep after 24 and 48 hours.

 

[animorph]

Here's what happened when I went on vacation in August for a couple of weeks:

Model X 100D (3/22/17 delivery), 2017.28 c528869 firmware, parked in garage, temperatures in the 90's to 100's F in Arizona, no fob nearby.
Energy saving on, always connected off, cabin overheat protection off.
The car was sleeping most of this time, but woke up once in a while and was scheduled to charge every day at 12:05 AM.
Monitored with TeslaFi.

8/21 12 AM (day after we left) 261.47 Rated Miles
8/26 12 AM charged from 253.30 rated miles to 263.02 rated miles
9/3 12 AM charged from 253.29 rated miles to 263.33 rated miles
9/6 12 AM the day we returned, 261.77 rated miles remaining.

That's 16 full days sitting in the garage, and a total loss of 19.46 rated miles, or 1.22 miles per day.


Contrast this with a one day loss, again sitting in the garage, after no driving the previous day (cabin overheat well past any 12 hour limit):
17.17.4 firmware, parked in garage, temperatures in the 90's to 100's F in Arizona, fob in my pocket.
Energy saving on, always connected off, cabin overheat protection on.
The car was in idle mode the entire time, never sleeping.
Monitored with TeslaFi.

7/2 12 AM 257.00 rated miles (start of the day), charge from 257 rated miles to 269.53 rated miles
7/3 12 AM 257.63 rated miles remaining.

That's 11.90 rated miles lost in 24 hours. The car never went to sleep because cabin overheat protection was enabled. I don't think cabin overheat protection actually activated, the maximum inside or outside temperature was 98F degrees.

So, yes, 7 to 13 rated miles per day vampire loss is entirely normal, depending on your settings and logging apps.
But 1 to 2 miles per day is also easily achievable with the right settings.

 

[deonb]

*I'm aware that there is no logic to what Tesla says, since a 60kWh should discharge faster than a 100kWh, but that's what they said. They're saying it in my case in order to avoid having to diagnose what's wrong with my car. I wonder how they would feel if this was public knowledge that they won't consider a car broken unless it burns more than 14 miles a day?

It also implies that a battery that's at a SOC of 10 kWh will drain 0.5 kWh/day while the same battery running the same electronics but at a SOC of 100 kWh will drain 5 kWh/day.

Clearly this makes no sense. But I think they don't want to say the word "kWh" and they don't want to say "you lose x miles per day". So they say percentage.

 

[brkaus]

Question about the car phoning home all the time:

I know the car is going to have the modem - and it can phone home - does it also have a wifi modem? Can you hook it up to your wifi so its only phoning home at home?

It will always use the LTE cellular connection. It generally doesn't send that much data over it. It does have a wifi modem. Things like software updates generally appear to be pushed to the wifi connected cars first... then after a while it will hit the LTE cars. This is all just guesses.

Also to the other poster who said the Tesla cannot cool the battery below ambient, here is a reference thread: Is Battery Cooling activated while driving if AC isn't on?

Thank you.

Isn't 80 W about 5 miles / day of loss? I think it's possible to use less as other members are seeing about 1-2 miles per day of range loss:

1. Set Energy Saving to On
2. Leave Always connected off
3. Make sure your keys are far away from your car (so that it doesn't remain awake, which will use additional energy)

I also generally see 1-2 miles per day lost to the vampire. I use above settings with smart conditioning off. I use TeslaFi, but make sure to enable the sleep modes so it does go to sleep. Some monitoring systems do not allow the tesla to sleep.

 

[lymex2017]

My MX 100D (Aug. 2017 delivery), 2017.36 firmware, parked in garage with key fob far away, temperatures about 70F.
Energy saving on, always connected off, cabin overheat protection on, alarm off, remote access off.
I lost 19.22 rated km per 24hours, that is 3.4 kWh per day, and 142Watts of power.
When I turn always connected on, alarm on and remote access on, only small increase at 19.5 rated km per 24 hours.
I asked one other fellow who also own a MX100D, is about the same vampire draw.

I then use my Flir thermal camera to see where are those 142W power consumed, I found out that the instrument panel is the hottest spot, and the heat penetrate to the front that can be seen by opening the frank(see photo below). Furthermore, there are other hot spots as well such as outside-bottoms of wing doors and beside window buttons.

 

[Sawyer8888]

Had my Model X since December 2016. Ever since, it drops 3-4 miles a night, which represents 5-10 miles of loss a day.

These numbers are at least double of what I normally experience with my MS 60. Temperatures in my garage normally exceed 80°F. I may lose 1 mile between 10 PM (charge ends) and 8 AM. But I normally start the day with the rated miles seen at 10 PM the night before. I use all energy-savings options.

​

today my wife drove it to her office and a 16 mile journey took 20 mi off the car.

After 7 months of ownership, I have learned that I will not achieve the rated miles unless I drive much slower. But even driving the 1 mile out of my community at the posted 25 mph limit, I usually end up using 2 Tesla miles.

My 80-mile daily roundtrip (mostly highway) normally uses ~100 rated miles. I find it difficult to keep my MS 60 under 300 Wh/mile.

​

 

[TSammy]

I have a Sept 2016 X60D with 20,000 wonderful miles driven, mostly local here in Texas.

Two observations to share:

1. Model X always uses more kwh to do everything than the old MS 60. Due to WEIGHT, Dual Motors, aerodynamics,etc.
Did I mention weight?

2. Texas summer days are Hot, hot, hot. Had a summer job for four days a week this year where I had to park in an open concrete lot without a scrap of shade available. Despite my taking all energy saving settings; I found up to 15% of daytime loss was pretty much normal, presumably to take care of the battery,

One July day, I decided to run home at noon to get a book for a collegue and I turned on the Tesla app to start the A/C 5 minutes beforehand,
App said the interior temperature was 143 degrees Fahrenheit... Yikes! And that is with the factory supplied sunshade on the upper 1/2 of my windshield.

 

[DarkMatter]

April X90D. I had 235 rated miles when I left the car on Thursday. Now at 227, 4 days later. Energy saving on, always connected on, sitting in a 60 degree garage.

 

[dweeks]

It will always use the LTE cellular connection. It generally doesn't send that much data over it. It does have a wifi modem. Things like software updates generally appear to be pushed to the wifi connected cars first... then after a while it will hit the LTE cars. This is all just guesses.




Thank you.



I also generally see 1-2 miles per day lost to the vampire. I use above settings with smart conditioning off. I use TeslaFi, but make sure to enable the sleep modes so it does go to sleep. Some monitoring systems do not allow the tesla to sleep.

When I am most concerned about minimizing vampire loss, I go to Settings/Security and disable remote access.

This keeps my Teslafi account from waking up the car every now and then.