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"Tesla" scam.

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by daniel, May 27, 2012.

  1. daniel

    daniel Active Member

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    I'm posting this in "off topic" because it does not refer to our favorite car company:

    I got an email today titled "A note from Tesla generator." The email promised free electricity using a device the government has been trying to keep hidden. (Where do these idiots come up with these ideas?)

    I did not open the link in the email because I don't know whether it's just going to try to sell me another perpetual motion machine, or whether it's going to try to infect my computer with a virus. I never open links in emails unless there is something in the text of the email that absolutely convinces me it comes from a legitimate source, or the link actually points to a site I trust.

    I actually love perpetual motion toys, and I have several. Of course there's the classic drinking bird. And there's a really cool battery powered thing which is cool because unless you're an electrical engineer you probably can't figure out how it works, since there's no electrical connection between the roller thingy that rolls back and forth seemingly forever, and the base where the battery is hidden. Apparently the arms of the roller interact with a magnetic field generated in the base in such a way that it always gets pushed in the direction it's moving.

    The scam in the email I got today plays on the fact that a lot of people believe that Nikola Tesla invented machines that would give us free electricity, and only our evil government is preventing us from having them. Which is kind of odd, really, because we actually have free energy beaming at us wirelessly from that big thermonuclear reactor a relatively safe 93 million miles away. And most alleged "free energy" machines probably cost more to build (if they worked, which of course they don't) per watt of output, than a solar collector or wind turbine.

    I blame our educational system and fundamentalist religion for the pathetic ignorance of science in the populace that allows free-energy scams to persist, as well as such medical scams as chiropractic, acupuncture, homeopathy, etc., and the plethora of other irrational beliefs such as AGW denialism and young-Earth creationism.
     
  2. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    Wow, tell us how you REALLY feel.
     
  3. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    #3 jerry33, May 27, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 10, 2015
    You certainly hit the nail on the head with that one. Critical thinking should be taught in schools along with how to distinguish pseudoscience from science. And what medical scams are likely to be pitched.

    The way to determine if a email is from a legitimate source is to look at the full headers.

    Here's an example:

    Look at the Received header lines. The lines you can trust to be real are the ones that have your SMTP server (aka receiving mail server) or your ISP's server in them. The top most one is the most recent one.

    Subject: Reply to thread 'How long will Tesla's current retail model be feasible?'
    Date: May 27, 2012 10:00:33 CDT
    From: Tesla Motors Club - Enthusiasts & Owners Forum <[email protected]> <--- The From address. It can easily be faked
    To: XXXX
    Return-Path: <[email protected]>
    Delivered-To: XXXX
    Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by XXXX(Postfix) with ESMTP id A120318B899F for <XXXXX>; Sun, 27 May 2012 10:03:25 -0500 (CDT) <---- This is one from your local system or ISP
    Received: from XXXXX ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (feline.j3iss.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fvs7Sil0-XMy for <XXXXX>; Sun, 27 May 2012 10:03:25 -0500 (CDT) <---- This is also one from your local system or ISP
    Received: from tmcserver.teslamotorsclub.com (unknown [64.111.70.28]) by XXXXm (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6235518B899C for <XXXX>; Sun, 27 May 2012 10:03:25 -0500 (CDT) <---- This is the earliest one you can trust. Note that the teslamotorsclub.com matches the From address and it has your system XXXX in this case in it.
    Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tmcserver.teslamotorsclub.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q4RF0Xfi002653 for <[email protected]>; Sun, 27 May 2012 11:00:33 -0400 <---- This is not from your system and could be faked
    X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at j3iss.com <---- All the lines below here are informational and aren't security related
    Auto-Submitted: auto-generated
    Message-Id: <[email protected]>
    Mime-Version: 1.0
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
    X-Priority: 3
    X-Mailer: vBulletin Mail via PHP



    Note that some companies use advertising and survey companies that will make the From and Received header lines appear different. So, assuming you would like to participate in whatever it is, what to do? Find the ip-address from the line that has both your SMTP server and the remote server and go to both Senderbase and Trusted Source. If both show the ip-address as being good, then it's safe. If there is any other result (one good, one neutral, etc.) then don't go there. Interestingly, the telsamotorsclub ip-address doesn't pass this test. Only Trusted Source shows it as good. However, because the from and received line match, it's safe.
     
  4. ggr

    ggr Roadster R80 537, SigS P85 29

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    I feel like him, and want permission to quote...
     
  5. Grendal

    Grendal Active Member

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    Medical scams have been mentioned, how about health and nutrition scams? That's a multi-billion dollar industry. Take a pill or buy a machine to lose weight and take a pill to fix an ailment scams are everywhere.
     
  6. daniel

    daniel Active Member

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    Permission granted.

    Yes. I lump health and nutrition scams generally with medical scams. There are far too many scams that exploit lack of critical thinking, scientific ignorance, and innumeracy, to be able to list them all in a chat board post. I just gave a couple of examples. We would be a better and stronger and more robust nation if everyone knew how to think critically. But advertising would not work as well, and demagogues would have a much harder time of it, and churches would have a harder time raising money, so all of them oppose science education.
     
  7. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    I was lumping them together too.
     
  8. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

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    Factually wrong there my friend. Our Catholic church also has a school (my daughter attends) that specializes in science studies; and they're not alone. Belief in God and belief in evolution are not mutually exclusive. Many churches raise money for charitable works and that fundraising does not rely on a lack of critical thinking, rather the opposite - it does rely on a enough people critically realizing where help is needed.
     
  9. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    I'm not religious, but there are even scientists that believe in God. Some people NEED faith in something. Some need to believe there's more to our lives than a chance existence that means nothing more than a fly buzzing past a horse's arse. Some need to believe everything we are doesn't just wink out of existence as soon as our body stops functioning.

    Personally, I have a hard time believing we're anything more than intelligent animals that are here once, live, die and are never heard from again, but I don't look down on those that can dream bigger (heck, I envy them).
     
  10. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    That sure wasn't the case in the Catholic schools I attended. (and I attended several in several cities over several years).
     
  11. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    As much as I'd like to comment, I'm not sure getting into a religious discussion is the best idea, even in an off topic area. This never turns out well.
     
  12. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Agreed. Sorry for the off-topic post.
     
  13. daniel

    daniel Active Member

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    Believing something because you feel a need to believe, rather than because there's evidence for that belief, is the opposite of critical thinking. Critical thinking pushes belief towards evidence. Religion serves many useful social purposes, but it is the opposite of critical thinking because it teaches that knowledge comes from mystical experiences (often someone else's claimed mystical experiences) or old books rather than from evidence.

    It's relevant because the thought processes that allow people to accept religious beliefs are exactly the same processes that allow people to believe in medical scams and free-energy scams. Once you accept that there is a "spiritual" world that is more real than the physical world, then homeopathy and acupuncture and perpetual motion machines make sense and the physical laws that exclude them become irrelevant because they rely on "spiritual forces" rather than physical ones.

    Evidence is how we learn about the world. Once you reject evidence, you become vulnerable to every sort of scam.

    The Catholic Church was a great patron of science. Right up until science began to contradict church dogma. The Roman church accepts more of science than the evangelical and charismatic churches do, but all of them still assert that their own dogma is more valid than any scientific findings that happen to contradict that dogma, and this is a rejection of critical thinking. They all demand uncritical acceptance of their particular beliefs, which vary from one to another.

    There are, of course, exceptions. The Unitarian Universalist Church has no dogma. And there are some churches that read their scriptures as allegory, and have no problem accepting evidence. But most still promote beliefs that a neutral observer would regard as irrational, and base those beliefs on an unquestioning and uncritical acceptance of a "spiritual" world that interacts with the physical world in ways that cannot be tested or measured or influenced by physical means. And they accept those ideas because they feel a "need to believe," rather than because they fit any available evidence.
     
  14. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

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    Maybe the title of this thread should be changed to "Daniel's Blog"..... :wink:
     
  15. daniel

    daniel Active Member

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    :biggrin:
     
  16. DrGuest

    DrGuest Member

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    #16 DrGuest, Oct 9, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2015
    You might benefit from doing a little more research about the Profession of Chiropractic, since you have mistaken Chiropractic, America's 3 Largest Health Care Profession, with Medical Scams. Here is a link to the American Chiropractic Associations website and an article about a relative of Elon Musk's, Dr. Scott Haldeman DC, MD, PhD and the World Spine Care Project where Elon Musk sits on the Board.

    http://www.acatoday.org/content_css.cfm?CID=4705

    Check out the Research Section on that site and this one, too.

    http://www.coxtechnic.com/

    I'm not sure how old you are daniel, but as you age you just might want to keep your mind open to the benefits of Chiropractic Care, the Cox Technic is 93% effective in helping to resolve from the severe, debilitating pain of "Ruptured" Discs or actually, non contained disc herniations. A 93% successful non surgical option should not be ignored and should not blown off as being a medical scam.

    As a Matter of Fact, Elon's Great Grandmother was the Very First Chiropractor in Canada! Her son had been injured and when his condition continued to degenerate, she took him to Palmer Chiropractic College, where "he was cured". She was so grateful she enrolled at Palmer and upon graduating moved to Canada. Her son, also Scott Haldeman DC, grew up to become a Chiropractor and not only was known for having one of the largest and most successful Chiropractic practices in Canada, He also flew an airplane and was known by many as "The Flying Chiropractor." He and his wife (Elon's Grandpa and Grandma) retired to South Africa where they flew from South Africa to Australia and back and also from South Africa to Norway and back. Both Firsts and very courageous accomplishments in the day.

    It would be a good question to ask Elon sometime how much influence his Chiropractic side of the Family has had on him with all those Firsts. His Family History may have helped him to see past normal boundaries and to be driven to make so many courageous accomplishments today!

    Every Tissue in the Body needs maintenance and the cartilaginous tissues in our Spinal joints and Intervertebral Discs are no exception. Chiropractic Physicians are educated in the Nutritional, Physiological, Neurological, and the Bio-mechanical protocols to support the function of a Human Spine from Birth to our Eldest years. As a Matter of fact, since most Americans have still yet to discover the benefits of Chiropractic Health Care, many Americans are needlessly suffering terrible debilitating pains in their elder years, and it is a problem that costs our countries productivity billions of $$$.
     
  17. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    You're replying to a post that is over three years old.

    And I predict this thread is now going to devolve into a discussion of chiropractic and other therapies. I'll wait until it does before offering my own opinion.
     
  18. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    Well if it's going to devolve, let me help! :wink:

    Chiropractic isn't a straight out scam like many of the others, however it does tend to lean that direction. Scientific evidence shows that chiropractic is effective for low back pain, there's really no controversy in that department. HOWEVER, many chiropractors do not limit themselves to this, and expand to treating other ailments for which there is no scientific evidence, or worse, doing procedures that are highly dangerous (don't ever let a chiropractor adjust your neck!) Many chiropractors also intertwine themselves with other pseudo-science, selling various herbal supplements, and referring people to homoeopaths or acupuncturists. This is compounded by the fact that chiropractic regulatory bodies have been very reluctant to call out those among the profession that engage in these shady practices. The end result is that it is far too easy to sweep the whole profession under the quackery label, despite the honest practitioners who stick to the one area that has scientific backing.
     
  19. S'toon

    S'toon Knows where his towel is

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    Exactly. Well stated.
     
  20. DrGuest

    DrGuest Member

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    #20 DrGuest, Oct 9, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2015
    Bonnie, you might be right. However, this will be my last comment on this thread.

    When I read Elon Musk's Biography and read about all the Chiropractor's in Elon's family and being a Chiropractor for 25 years it was fun and personally exciting to read. A friend Vger brought it to my attention after he had read the biography, as well. I did a search on TMC on "Chiropractic" and this was the first thread I found and was disappointed to see My Profession represented as a scam, so I thought maybe some facts might be more beneficial than opinion.

    Every health care system is falling short to meet the needs of the American Public today and so while my profession has it's regretful horror stories, that have and do effect real people, they sure don't represent or negate the good that the Chiropractic Profession provides as a whole, when one finds the right doctor and the right protocols for their condition. A thread called "Tesla Scam" and one including calling Chiropractic a scam, is pretty devolved already, so I was hoping and trusting that this info could be beneficial. One has to read the links and learn something new. S'toon read Green1's opinion, but did either read the info in the links? If one's mind remains open to new information or perhaps having a new and different experience than what was experienced in the past, then I thought there might be benefit to commenting on this ole thread. If it all goes South, then it sure would not be the first time I failed at helping someone see Chiropractic in a different Light.
     

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