Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Tesla Semi delivery event, 1 December 2022

This is supposed to be the first V4 Supercharger location:
Screenshot 2022-12-02 at 11.12.03 AM.png
 

MorrisonHiker

Well-Known Member
Moderator
Mar 8, 2015
10,772
11,090
Colorado

MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
20,445
51,938
Oregon
When these new V4 Superchargers are installed it will be interesting to see if there will be any drive-thru's available.
Do you think they are going to redesign the sites completely from the plans they submitted to get permits? (Plans for Dateland do show one pull-through stall, but you aren't going to drive a Semi+Trailer through that site.)
 
Do you think they are going to redesign the sites completely from the plans they submitted to get permits?


"This suggests that the existing plans will be redrawn to include V4 infrastructure in the build."

(Plans for Dateland do show one pull-through stall,
I haven't seen the plans, do you have access to them?
but you aren't going to drive a Semi+Trailer through that site.
Just curious how you know this?
 

MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
20,445
51,938
Oregon
"This suggests that the existing plans will be redrawn to include V4 infrastructure in the build."

From what I have seen, that just means re-drawn to show the new pedestals, not a site plan re-do. But I guess we will see.

I haven't seen the plans, do you have access to them?
Just curious how you know this?

Just what has been shared on Twitter and here on TMC:

1670006536026.png


The sites looks too narrow with too many 90 degree turns for a Semi+Trailer to me. Not to mention a Semi+Trailer hooked to the drive-thru stall would completely block one path of travel around the site, and probably stick into the driveway. (It looks tight even for a travel trailer behind a Cybertruck to me.)
 
Since the Cybertruck will be able to use the Mega Superchargers, and also the current Tesla Superchargers,
- my assumption is that the Mega Superchargers will be based on the NACS 1kV plug, at least in the US?

Also I noticed that the recent build Tesla Superchargers locations have a 56 stalls (using 14 inverters of 4 x 250 kW.)
But when looking at the layout (such as the Firebaugh, CA) there are four stalls empty?

- So would one additional 1MW Mega Supercharger could be added to power those four empty slots
that (for a while) only Cybertrucks could used?
 
Beside the Mega Supercharger at the Tesla Giga Factory, Sparks, NV,
is there any already existing Mega Superchargers locations?

Or where did the Semi where able to charge when travelling from Sparks to Fremont (about 300 miles)
or when doing any other testings (like Fremont to San Diego and others locations, like winter testing in Alaska...)?
 


"The announcement leaves a lot of room for elaboration regarding how Tesla actually plans to incorporate charging options for its Semi, which wouldn’t fit at many existing Supercharger stations. Tesla’s senior charging policy manager Francesca Wahl said in October, at the CharIn North America Conference in Portland that Supercharger sites likely would not be used as heavy-duty (Semi) sites anytime soon."

What I have noticed at Tesla plans can change, and do so quite often.

"The company has suggested over the years that it was looking to deploy supporting infrastructure for the Semi with other parties."
 

Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
8,807
11,501
Boise, ID
The V4 Superchargers WILL fit the Tesla Semi charging port. This is where your confusion lies.

The new V4 Supercharger IS the Megacharcher.
Definitely not. Then none of the cars could use V4 Superchargers at all, since they would have the wrong port. That makes no sense.

Agree. Only that what I got out of the presentation is they used the new V4 Supercharger for a reason. They never mentioned a Megacharger. Doesn't that seem odd since this was all about the Tesla Semi?
No, that wouldn't be odd. It fits with Tesla's pattern of trying to reuse and share equipment types when possible. This would make a lot of sense that the new sleeved cooling cables will be a shared technology. The cabinets with the main backend supply that does the AC to DC conversion, etc. are probably also shared as part of this new backend infrastructure. But on the front end, the interfaces to the vehicles at the stalls are going to have to have different plug types for the Megacharger for the Semis versus the V4 Superchargers for cars.

So it does make sense to introduce that part of it at this presentation, that the new 1,000 V infrastructure and new cables are going to be compatible with the Semi and Cybertruck for both the Megachargers and the V4 Superchargers.

Since the Cybertruck will be able to use the Mega Superchargers, and also the current Tesla Superchargers,
- my assumption is that the Mega Superchargers will be based on the NACS 1kV plug, at least in the US?
Could you not mix the terms? The Megachargers have the MCS plug that the Semi uses. Superchargers use the NACS plug that the cars have.

Beside the Mega Supercharger at the Tesla Giga Factory, Sparks, NV,
is there any already existing Mega Superchargers locations?
Yes, at least one of the Pepsi sites did get some installed, but that's not a publicly available one.
 
Definitely not. Then none of the cars could use V4 Superchargers at all, since they would have the wrong port. That makes no sense.
The Tesla Semi will have the NACS
No, that wouldn't be odd.
Yes, it would be odd.
But on the front end, the interfaces to the vehicles at the stalls are going to have to have different plug types for the Megacharger for the Semis versus the V4 Superchargers for cars.

Wrong. The V4 Supercharger will have NACS which the Tesla Semi will have as well. The V4 can handle 1MW for a reason, the Tesla Semi.
So it does make sense to introduce that part of it at this presentation, that the new 1,000 V infrastructure and new cables are going to be compatible with the Semi and Cybertruck for both the Megachargers and the V4 Superchargers.
You are only partially correct here. The reason there was NO MENTION of the Megacharger is obvious. The V4 will handle the job of charging the Tesla Semi.
 

Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
8,807
11,501
Boise, ID
The Tesla Semi will have the NACS
It does have the MCS port. It may or may not have the NACS as well. I do think it's likely it will as an emergency backup type of use.
The V4 Supercharger will have NACS
Correct.
which the Tesla Semi will have as well.
It might.
The V4 can handle 1MW for a reason,
Yes, shared backend infrastructure equipment and future proofing.
The V4 will handle the job of charging the Tesla Semi.
Not very likely. The V4 Superchargers are going to have the NACS plug, which the cars do have, but the Semi might or might not have. But further, since the V4 Superchargers are their next generation of the Supercharger build out, they are going to installed in the same kind of edge of parking lot setup for cars to use. Semis just won't be able to pull through to those.

The Megachargers are the ones being built with pull-through setups and the different plug on them that the Semi will be able to use.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Olle and CyberGus
It does have the MCS port.
Are you sure about this? If the NACS can handle charging the Tesla Semi why would they use the MCS? Tesla is all about efficiency. Why make another part(MCS handle and port) when they can use the NACS handle and port they are already making? The MCS is larger, more bulky and more than likely more expensive to make.
Not very likely. The V4 Superchargers are going to have the NACS plug, which the cars do have, but the Semi might or might not have.
LOL

But further, since the V4 Superchargers are their next generation of the Supercharger build out, they are going to installed in the same kind of edge of parking lot setup for cars to use.
OK. I'm with ya here.
Semis just won't be able to pull through to those.
True.
The Megachargers are the ones being built with pull-through setups and the different plug on them that the Semi will be able to use.
Tesla will use the V4 Superchargers for the pull-through setups BUT WILL NOT have a different plug on them. Again, why would they if the NACS can handle charging the Tesla Semi? I keep saying that is why the V4 can handle charging at 1MW, for the Semi.
What is the difference between the "Megacharger" and the V4 Supercharger? All I can see from what you say is the handle and port, which again goes against going for efficiency, economies of scale.
 

SageBrush

REJECT Fascism
May 7, 2015
14,154
19,670
New Mexico
I'm not sure of the design specs for the V4 Supercharger, but one:

Tesla intends to service non Tesla cars, which means a considerably longer and more user friendly cable.

I think @Rocky_H has the right idea: Superchargers and Semi Chargers are different sites. Each has a use for the next gen liquid cooling, for different reasons.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: CyberGus

MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
20,445
51,938
Oregon
Are you sure about this? If the NACS can handle charging the Tesla Semi why would they use the MCS? Tesla is all about efficiency. Why make another part(MCS handle and port) when they can use the NACS handle and port they are already making? The MCS is larger, more bulky and more than likely more expensive to make.
But can NACS really? MCS is designed for up to 3 MW, NACS can't do that. I think to reach the times Tesla stated they need at least 1.6MW, will NACS be able to do that? That would be ~1,600 A at 1000V, of course 1000v is likely the fully charged voltage, so voltage when SoC is low is probably closer to 875v, meaning that you need ~1,800 A to get 1.6MW. (Which I don't think the NACS connector can handle, they only mentioned testing it to 900A, which would only give you ~780kW.)

The other reason to have MCS is so that the Tesla Semi can charge at third party MCS chargers. (There is already one installed in Portland, though it isn't 100% public yet, you have to sign up to be a tester with them currently.)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rocky_H and Olle
Are you sure about this? If the NACS can handle charging the Tesla Semi why would they use the MCS? Tesla is all about efficiency. Why make another part(MCS handle and port) when they can use the NACS handle and port they are already making? The MCS is larger, more bulky and more than likely more expensive to make.

LOL


OK. I'm with ya here.

True.

Tesla will use the V4 Superchargers for the pull-through setups BUT WILL NOT have a different plug on them. Again, why would they if the NACS can handle charging the Tesla Semi? I keep saying that is why the V4 can handle charging at 1MW, for the Semi.
What is the difference between the "Megacharger" and the V4 Supercharger? All I can see from what you say is the handle and port, which again goes against going for efficiency, economies of scale.

I suppose the Tesla Semi may have a MCS port to be able to use on other chargers in the future. Tesla is years ahead everybody else with their car charging network and will most likely be years ahead on the large truck charging network.
 

MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
20,445
51,938
Oregon
Yes. Again I point to the presentation.
Start @ 26:22 in the video

Elon says 1MW is needed for the Semi, not 1.6MW. No mention of MCS or Megacharger in the presentation. Just 1MW.

The slide says 1MW+. So they allude to more than a MW. They just didn't provide many details. But we can figure it out from what they have said.

  • Elon said the truck is 1.7kWh per mile.
  • 500 mile range means the battery is ~850kWh.
  • The site says "Recover up to 70 percent of range in 30 minutes using Tesla’s Semi Chargers."
  • You have to be able to charge 350 miles, or 595 kWh, in 30 minutes.
  • That means that it has to average 1.2MW over the 30 minute 70% charge.
It seems highly unlikely that it will hold 1.2MW for 30 minutes, so it is likely to start at ~1.6MW and ramp down as the SoC increases.

Of course that claim is for when charging a "Semi Charger", not at a Supercharger.

tl;dr: With what they have shared 1MW would not meet the claims that they have made. (It would only give you ~290 miles of range in 30 minutes, or a ~58% charge, and that is if it held 1MW for the entire 30 minutes.)
 

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top