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Tesla semi is ill conceived...

bhzmark

Active Member
Jul 21, 2013
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However it does not protect against disrupters who take over and strangle a thread.
It does mostly protect you If you promptly put them on your ignore list. And it works especially well if other people who may be otherwise tempted to respond also put them on their own ignore list, and thus you never see the intial posts, and you don't see responses from others responding to their posts.

Everyone should frequently add people to their ignore list -- as a service to humanity
 
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Brando

Active Member
Sep 27, 2016
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Bainbridge Island, WA
How about a TIRE TAX?
[side note: Tire shortages were used in WWII to get people to think longer term and limit travel which save on petrol use. This worked much better than trying to limit gas directly which often just leads to black markets.]

Some states charge annual fees (license) based on weight which they see as correlated to road ware.
 
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Brando

Active Member
Sep 27, 2016
2,984
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Bainbridge Island, WA
It does mostly protect you If you promptly put them on your ignore list. And it works especially well if other people who may be otherwise tempted to respond also put them on their own ignore list, and thus you never see the intial posts, and you don't see responses from others responding to their posts.

Everyone should frequently add people to their ignore list -- as a service to humanity
I've tried for years to do exactly this with US federal politicians and our War Machine. I failed so far.
 
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Dr. J

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Aug 23, 2017
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Fort Worth, Texas
I've tried for years to do exactly this with US federal politicians and our War Machine. I failed so far.
54758548.jpg
 
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AZ Desert Driver

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Mar 12, 2016
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Oh, how I wish I could just ignore the political winds. He said this, the other he said that-----oh - let me bury my head in the sand and let it pass.
Tempting - but then if we all did that, who would stand tall and make a difference? Who among us is ready to fight?
 
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fsch

Member
Sep 21, 2015
151
177
Montreal, QC
Something occurred to me the other day...

Are electric vehicles paying road taxes? In the States around 30 to 70 cents a gallon of petroleum fuel are taxes, how are electric vehicles contributing infrastructure costs?

At least we pay a higher sales tax since EVs are more expensive than a comparable ICE, because of the battery. I let you estimate how much is 15% on a Tesla!

Then, I don't know how it is in other jurisdictions, but here in Quebec, we have an annual tax on luxury cars, which is a percentage on the value of the car in excess of 40k$ (Canadian) based on the market price for used cars. Since there is so little depreciation, I still have to pay 500-600$/year of this tax for my 5 year old MS, but would probably pay 100-200$/year for an equivalent ICE car.

So yes, I consider I pay my share of "road taxes".
 

Big Earl

bnkwupt
Supporting Member
Jul 12, 2017
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Springfield, VA
At least we pay a higher sales tax since EVs are more expensive than a comparable ICE, because of the battery. I let you estimate how much is 15% on a Tesla!

Then, I don't know how it is in other jurisdictions, but here in Quebec, we have an annual tax on luxury cars, which is a percentage on the value of the car in excess of 40k$ (Canadian) based on the market price for used cars. Since there is so little depreciation, I still have to pay 500-600$/year of this tax for my 5 year old MS, but would probably pay 100-200$/year for an equivalent ICE car.

So yes, I consider I pay my share of "road taxes".

We have personal property taxes here in Fairfax County, Virginia that sound very similar to your situation in Quebec. That said, sales taxes, personal property taxes and luxurty taxes are not the same as road use taxes; they don’t directly fund road maintenance.
 

Big Earl

bnkwupt
Supporting Member
Jul 12, 2017
5,837
10,823
Springfield, VA
How about a TIRE TAX?
[side note: Tire shortages were used in WWII to get people to think longer term and limit travel which save on petrol use. This worked much better than trying to limit gas directly which often just leads to black markets.]

Some states charge annual fees (license) based on weight which they see as correlated to road ware.

The ideal way to levy road taxes is by vehicle weight and miles driven. The problem with that is there are some people who think tracking vehicle miles is some sort of invasion of privacy.
 
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Big Earl

bnkwupt
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Jul 12, 2017
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Springfield, VA
Google already knows mileage by walking, biking, driving. I see it tracked on my cell phone already.


But that’s okay because it’s used for convenience instead of as a mechanism for sending you a bill. ;)

For the record, I think the whole privacy argument with mileage tracking/reporting is ridiculous, but the more paranoid among us sometimes argue that it’s a slippery slope to Big Brother, conveniently ignoring that they’re already providing much of that information to companies such as Google and data providers.
 
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bhzmark

Active Member
Jul 21, 2013
3,578
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You still see responses from others, you just don't have context to know why they posted that response.

I wrote "And it works especially well if other people who may be otherwise tempted to respond also put them on their own ignore list"
That's how it can work and you don't see responses from others, because instead of responding they just put the person on their ignore list..

But if you do see a response from someone, and the quote is blocked because you are ignoring the person, you can safely tell yourself --"ha, that person was foolish enough to respond instead of simply ignoring..." And keep scrolling.. there is nothing there of value to repay your further attention.
 

Dr. J

Active Member
Aug 23, 2017
1,473
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Fort Worth, Texas
But that’s okay because it’s used for convenience instead of as a mechanism for sending you a bill. ;)

For the record, I think the whole privacy argument with mileage tracking/reporting is ridiculous, but the more paranoid among us sometimes argue that it’s a slippery slope to Big Brother, conveniently ignoring that they’re already providing much of that information to companies such as Google and data providers.
For the record, we paranoiacs have figured out how to not allow Google and other data providers have that information. For Tesla, I'll be making an exception, since I see no way around it. Privacy concerns are real, at least to people of a certain age and awareness.
 
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Big Earl

bnkwupt
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Jul 12, 2017
5,837
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Springfield, VA
For the record, we paranoiacs have figured out how to not allow Google and other data providers have that information. For Tesla, I'll be making an exception, since I see no way around it. Privacy concerns are real, at least to people of a certain age and awareness.

You’re right about privacy concerns being real. Rereading my previous post, I was being pretty flippant about the issue. :eek:

I still think that mileage logs and vehicle weight are the best way of handling road taxes.
 
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fsch

Member
Sep 21, 2015
151
177
Montreal, QC
We have personal property taxes here in Fairfax County, Virginia that sound very similar to your situation in Quebec. That said, sales taxes, personal property taxes and luxurty taxes are not the same as road use taxes; they don’t directly fund road maintenance.

In our case, it's charged at the same time as licence plate renewal by the equivalent of a DMV office, related to the Ministry of Transport. So I'd assume that it eventually goes to transport, somehow.
 

AZ Desert Driver

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Mar 12, 2016
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And if we are paranoid - skeptical ...Do (all of) fuel taxes go to fund the roads? Do Bond elections to fund roads really fund those? Do license surcharges make it to the roads? I keep getting "invited" to support infrastructure projects, pot hole projects and to pay tolls to make the roads transport me smoothly to wherever I want. How much of what is collected stated goal?
 
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Dr. J

Active Member
Aug 23, 2017
1,473
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Fort Worth, Texas
And if we are paranoid - skeptical ...Do (all of) fuel taxes go to fund the roads? Do Bond elections to fund roads really fund those? Do license surcharges make it to the roads? I keep getting "invited" to support infrastructure projects, pot hole projects and to pay tolls to make the roads transport me smoothly to wherever I want. How much of what is collected stated goal?
I think the answer is: Who knows?

From Wikipedia:
Then-Secretary of Transportation Mary Peters stated on August 15, 2007, that about 60% of federal gas taxes are used for highway and bridge construction. The remaining 40% goes to earmarked programs.[12] However, revenues from other taxes are also used in federal transportation programs.
....
Critics of gas tax increases argue that much of the gas tax revenue is diverted to other government programs and debt servicing unrelated to transportation infrastructure.[18] But other researchers have noted that these diversions can occur in both directions, and that gas taxes and "user fees" paid by drivers are not high enough to cover the full cost of road-related spending.[19]
/Wikipedia

The gas tax and license fees are intended as "user fees"--people who use the roads should pay for them. But implementing that policy has been difficult. I think the gas tax could be useful as a carbon emissions deterrent, but nobody in my neck of the woods has the guts to say that, much less attempt it.
 
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ToddRLockwood

Active Member
Sep 11, 2012
1,317
74
Burlington, Vermont
Elon has no truck experience whatsoever, he knows that and admits it. His unveiling was the same as when Ford introduced their redesigned Louisville back in 1997, it was a bunch of car salespeople trying to sell a truck, it was a pretty sad day. To be honest I'm not sure if he's really taking it seriously...

The head of the Tesla Semi program is Jerome Guillen, a former engineer in the trucking division at Daimler. At Daimler, he led their most successful semi program ever, the Cascadia truck.
 

AZ Desert Driver

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Mar 12, 2016
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The head of the Tesla Semi program is Jerome Guillen, a former engineer in the trucking division at Daimler. At Daimler, he led their most successful semi program ever, the Cascadia truck.
Reminds me of that phrase "next to knowing, is knowing where" - if you don't know, know some where to get the information. Find someone smart in areas where you are not. Very much like THIS forum.
Sounds like a really good plan to me.
 
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jbcarioca

Well-Known Member
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Feb 3, 2015
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Reminds me of that phrase "next to knowing, is knowing where" - if you don't know, know some where to get the information. Find someone smart in areas where you are not. Very much like THIS forum.
Sounds like a really good plan to me.
In a couple of things Elon has been truly outstanding IMO:
1. Creating a vision that ignores current reality and sets realistic, presently unachievable, goals.
2. Finding people who share the vision and now how to deliver some part of it.

Tesla Semi can get some negative comments by people who have no clue what people like Mr. Guillen, Mr. Pilliod, Ms. Mottsmith and so many others.

Yes, some really outstanding people leave Tesla and go on to produce stellar results elsewhere.

As for Semi:
- just think about only the glass (OK, two out of my three example names worked on glass) because that is typical of the completely unexpected ways in which Elon encourages people to do seemingly impossible things. OK, not a huge cost, but downtime and frequent replacements are a big hassle.
-just think about integrated systems for driver, freight and vehicle performance.
-just think about Tesla torque management (10,000 updates a minute for the S/X) and the implications for vehicle stability.
 

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