Tesla Service/Quality control is still as bad as ever I guess

[Ski Krazy]

Honestly you should be concerned and go in with your eyes wide open. I would not buy another Tesla at the moment and yet I cannot yet imagine driving another vehicle right now. It is not the technology that has been a problem...that has been almost flawless It is the regular stuff like squeaks and rattles, bad drivers seat and just the efforts I had to go to to get Tesla to finally address the issues. They were not willing to assist until I started the lemon law process. QC and fit and finish for a $120k vehicle has been absurdly poor. And up until the last two weeks Tesla's response has been very lack luster. YMMV but this is my actual experience. I am giving Tesla one last shot to fix my noisy dash.

And that's my problem too, just like you can't imagine driving another vehicle, I can't stop imagining being in the same situation (less the problems, of course!).

I'm perfectly comfortable taking a problem to the highest level and complain my way to the top until it gets resolved like you did, but it's a shame to hear it came to that.

Question: how did the warranty factor into all of this? What I mean by that is, would some problems be addressed while not needing the warranty, would other problems require the warranty, and would you suggest getting it?

I guess that last one seems obvious but perhaps there are issues you had that may not have been covered even if you had one. I don't know, it's why I ask. Thanks in advance!

 

[verygreen]

I'm perfectly comfortable taking a problem to the highest level and complain my way to the top until it gets resolved like you did, but it's a shame to hear it came to that.

But what's your leverage? For us it was lemon law (I also suddenly got much better attention when my lemon law notification was delivered to Tesla) - when manufacturer buys back a lemon car from you - that's a lot of hassles for them, they need to get a special title for it (similar to salvage title), it's not eligible for CPO and so on.
But if there's no lemon law in Canada, I am not sure what sort of protection are you planning to rely on.

Question: how did the warranty factor into all of this? What I mean by that is, would some problems be addressed while not needing the warranty, would other problems require the warranty, and would you suggest getting it?

I guess that last one seems obvious but perhaps there are issues you had that may not have been covered even if you had one. I don't know, it's why I ask. Thanks in advance!

For lemon law to take effect you need to have issues that are warranty covered (i.e. cannot get into an accident and then do lemon law).
In addition when taking delivery there's a due bill where you record everything you are unhappy about and get Tesla to commit to fix that as a condition of accepting delivery (don't forget to add things like what sort of loaner you want to get and such) - hopefully there's something like that in Canada at least?
The other option being - just walk away if you don't like what you see (use the delivery checklist!), esp. with no lemon law - do seriously consider this. I wanted to walk away and now somewhat regretting I did not (back then I could still drive other cars, now after driving a Tesla for some time - I cannot anymore).

 

[Ski Krazy]

But what's your leverage? For us it was lemon law (I also suddenly got much better attention when my lemon law notification was delivered to Tesla) - when manufacturer buys back a lemon car from you - that's a lot of hassles for them, they need to get a special title for it (similar to salvage title), it's not eligible for CPO and so on.
But if there's no lemon law in Canada, I am not sure what sort of protection are you planning to rely on.


For lemon law to take effect you need to have issues that are warranty covered (i.e. cannot get into an accident and then do lemon law).
In addition when taking delivery there's a due bill where you record everything you are unhappy about and get Tesla to commit to fix that as a condition of accepting delivery (don't forget to add things like what sort of loaner you want to get and such) - hopefully there's something like that in Canada at least?
The other option being - just walk away if you don't like what you see (use the delivery checklist!), esp. with no lemon law - do seriously consider this. I wanted to walk away and now somewhat regretting I did not (back then I could still drive other cars, now after driving a Tesla for some time - I cannot anymore).

I see. The laws in Canada are basically that the manufacturer is obligated to fix anything that's covered under warranty. I'm not sure if there's a specified amount of time but I'd imagine at the worst there is a "within a reasonable amount of time" type of clause in there. Still something I should look into.

But from what you're saying definitely my strongest position is on delivery day like you mentioned. I'm just curious how far I can stretch the conditions, such as "if the seats rattle within an X amount of time, it will be repaired without cost" and so on, and just attach that to my acceptance condition. That's probably stretching it but maybe worth a try?

At the very least I now know that trim issues such as yours are non-repairable, in which case I shouldn't accept the car. Which leads me to another set of questions: is there a non-refundable portion? How much would be returned? And is it possible for me to ask them to build me a new one in case the one they built is unacceptable?

 

[verygreen]

I see. The laws in Canada are basically that the manufacturer is obligated to fix anything that's covered under warranty. I'm not sure if there's a specified amount of time but I'd imagine at the worst there is a "within a reasonable amount of time" type of clause in there. Still something I should look into.

But from what you're saying definitely my strongest position is on delivery day like you mentioned. I'm just curious how far I can stretch the conditions, such as "if the seats rattle within an X amount of time, it will be repaired without cost" and so on, and just attach that to my acceptance condition. That's probably stretching it but maybe worth a try?

At the very least I now know that trim issues such as yours are non-repairable, in which case I shouldn't accept the car. Which leads me to another set of questions: is there a non-refundable portion? How much would be returned? And is it possible for me to ask them to build me a new one in case the one they built is unacceptable?

I don't think you can do forward looking statements like "if X breaks you fix it" on the due bill. It's for stuff that's broken on delivery.
I.e. "a seat is missing, I am accepting the car on the condtion you fix is and while you fix it you give me a loaner and you pick my car on a flatbed truck and then return it the same way, ..."

The trim issue I had turned out to be repairable - i.e. now that I got my car back the outside trim is all normal (i.e. nothing sticks out in a very noticeable way, if I go with a fine-toothed comb, I can find stuff, but it's super minor at this point).
The deposit you pay at order time technically is nonrefundable, but I think if you see a clearly defective car there's argument that it's not so nonrefundable anymore, esp. if you reorder right away.

 

[Ski Krazy]

I don't think you can do forward looking statements like "if X breaks you fix it" on the due bill. It's for stuff that's broken on delivery.
I.e. "a seat is missing, I am accepting the car on the condtion you fix is and while you fix it you give me a loaner and you pick my car on a flatbed truck and then return it the same way, ..."

The trim issue I had turned out to be repairable - i.e. now that I got my car back the outside trim is all normal (i.e. nothing sticks out in a very noticeable way, if I go with a fine-toothed comb, I can find stuff, but it's super minor at this point).
The deposit you pay at order time technically is nonrefundable, but I think if you see a clearly defective car there's argument that it's not so nonrefundable anymore, esp. if you reorder right away.

Yeah, I figured that was too much of a stretch.

That's great to hear that your major trim issue got fixed. Makes me comfortable knowing that if I come across such a situation, all hope is not lost... Especially since I just put the order in yesterday! Got an overnight loaner to fool around with too and I have to say, knowing everything that could go wrong with the X upon delivery, the next two months will still be hard in my ICE car.

Crossing my fingers!

 

[verygreen]

I think I'll give a bit of an update on my journey here, it's been awhile.

In first half of August Tesla took my car in for repairs: Windshield replacement, steering wheel replacement (they scratched the original one), fixed a bunch of rattles, replaced a scratched glass divider in passenger FWD door.
They did not replace the passenger FWD panel that was damaged during the very first service while being fixed, but they got it on order. Whole visit only took 2 days! And I got a model X as a loaner too.

At first it looked like things were great, but gradually rattles reappeared, then some time ago I tried to use passenger side FWD window and discovered that it's getting stuck and does not want to close and when it does close, it does it with great struggle. Got a ranger that diagnosed it needs a new motor and a new limiter.
Front windows developed annoying squeaks when closing and wind noise at highway speeds, whistles at low speed.
Discovered a weird tool-looking imprint on a drivers door that is seen only in contrast lighting - suspect it happened at one of prior SC visits.
Then the backup camera started to act up a lot more than it did before and in pretty dangerous ways.
Yellowing on the cid screen has appeared (so far faintly, but it will get worse over time it seems).
Common problem of FWD doors rubbing against the door frame chewing through paint - happened to me too.
2nd row seat cables recall - my car was checked and appears to be unaffected.
Vibration at 70+mph speeds and a bit of acceleration shudder - all early signs of half-axles premature wearing.
Periodic "recalibrate FWD doors" messages that clear by themselves eventually.

After another ranger visit today:
my replacement door panel was finally delivered today - yay! only 6 months wait.
It was discovered that the FWD glass problems run deeper than expected - so more parts have been ordered, remains unfixed.
Problems with the camera and screen confirmed, rattles and whistles confirmed, nothing done about those so far other than some diagnostics collected.
During the ranger visit - "keyfob battery low" warning appeared.

Got the uncork (yay! at least something positive).

I guess to have the full collection I just need a 12V battery failure and a DU failure at this point

 

[BigD0g]

That’s a complete crap,show, hey @JonMc, how about some help here??

 

[outie]

I had a X100D loaner for a week. It was a June 2017 build. Not much issue (very quiet, more quiet than mine) other than a failing pax side latch. It does have the silent latch but it was failing.

Now I understand why some people said their turn signal was so quiet while I felt it was very loud. The loaner turn signal was actually more quiet than mine! Go figure.

 

[verygreen]

Now I understand why some people said their turn signal was so quiet while I felt it was very loud. The loaner turn signal was actually more quiet than mine! Go figure

It's actually an adjustable option (not in UI I think, but not 100% sure), I wonder if after some point they changed it but it stuck on older cars.

 

[outie]

It's actually an adjustable option (not in UI I think, but not 100% sure), I wonder if after some point they changed it but it stuck on older cars.

I wish it was in the UI. I want to lower mine so badly.​

 

[C3XGarage]

Was in an S today at their Santa Monica store and couldn’t believe this was the car they were wanting people to see. The leather was deformed everywhere, just about every piece of interior trim around the doors was bowed and coming off. The X was much better but the seats were badly stained. Poor show, I’d be embarrassed if I was Elon! People compare them to Apple, Apple would never demo that. Nervously waiting on my X delivery.

 

[Xminus6]

Well I find this a very interesting post and you are correct that many on this forum and others think Tesla can do no wrong. I have had two lingering issues since I took delivery almost 10 months ago. A driver seat that moves and sounds like a can is rolling under the seat and passenger side dash that squeaks and ticks. After multiple trips to the SC to fix other issues (7 trips in total) and repeatedly being told my moving and rocking driver seat was normal and they cannot hear the dash squeak I finally got the SC to agree that my drivers seat needed to be replaced and my issue was a known issue (after another trip to the SC). They had no idea of an ETA on the seat. They also acknowledged my squeaking dash but said and I quote "it could take a while to track the noise down" to which I replied I don't care.

This week I got fed up after calling the SC and being told the seat was not in after being ordered almost 7 weeks ago and and 9 months since I first demonstrated the movement of the seat to the SC, I checked the lemon law statutes in Maryland I found out what my options are and called Tesla corporate customer service. I told them I DID NOT want to be transferred to the local service center but wanted to speak to someone is a supervisory capacity. I told them specifically that if I did not get a call back with 48 hours with a timeline for resolution of the final two issues I have I was going to start the lemon law process and the 30 day clock for final resolution under the statute would start.

Wouldn't you know that 2 days later I get a call from the SC that my seat is in and they want to schedule the repair. They also asked me for more details of the dash squeak (even though a service advisor has already ridden in my Model X and heard the squeaking). I emailed her video I had taken of the noise while driving and her reaction was "that would drive me nuts and needs to be fixed". I have gotten follow up calls multiple times in the last three days when before I would get no follow up calls. They are going to send a Ranger to my office (I live 50 miles from the closest SC) to see if he can get an idea of what is causing the dash squeaks so they can order any parts BEFORE I bring it goes back to the SC.

Did my phone call to California have an impact or was it coincidence. I don't know and don't care. The person I am dealing with now at the SC has been very responsive and I am hopeful that i will soon have all the issues resolved. I am giving Tesla another week to get a final plan to fix the dash. This is a very expensive car and I don't give Tesla a pass for QC and service issues.

Sorry for the long reply. I think you should absolutely start the lemon law process. I would also encourage you to call Tesla in CA if you haven't already. I do love my Model X (even with the issues) but worry Tesla is going to have big problems when they scale up for Model 3 production if they do not improve QC and the service experience. I have also considered upgrading to a Model X 100 but have decided to hold off for now until my issues are resolved. 1st world problems I know. Your car should have never been delivered with the defects.

I just had a dash squeak in the passenger side fixed. It was the window regulator for the door window believe it or not. It was a low-frequency squeak that almost sounded like a rattle. I had another rattle in the dash directly in front of me that was the bottom plastic trim piece in the binnacle nacelle. The inner part of the nacelle was rubbing against the dash cap.

 

[valakos]

What I'm seeing is most of the "issues" are people complaining of either alignment by zooming in 100 times and saying it off by a few millimeters and or rattles/wind noise. Fair enough - for me it has to be fairly noticeable to make a complaint but to lemon law it seems to be totally ridiculous and groundless. I'm fairly tolerant of these sort of things and some of the complaints seem way over the top imo but I guess that's just me. I'ld just say I'ld hate to work with some of the chronic complainers. As far as I can tell Elon took a massive gamble on making cars in America and it seems overly pedantic chronic complainers will more than likely sink tesla. I'm thinking about taking a short position as I am banking on utter morons to complain about model 3 alignment being off a few millimeters as has been seen in a few "review" videos and making out that this is a serious tesla quality issue.

 

[davidc18]

There would be no issues if Tesla could deliver cars with consistently high quality control. We are talking about basic car construction here.

 

[NewTMSMan]

My 2017 Model X is still in service with Car Needs Service - Steering Assist Reduced and Automatic Emergency Braking Disabled. This happened after my wife simply drove it and parked it in our garage. This is only our most recent issue, we have had a list as well, but no where near OPs list yet.

Tesla has finally diagnosed the issue as being able to be replicated by applying the brake hard, which they believe is causing an issue with a faulty pin in one of the electrical harnesses, but they have not found which one yet.

We just crossed 20 days out of service since I bought the Model X after 79 days of ownership (yeah Tesla has had my X for service 27% of the time I have owned it so far). My Model S, which is also a 2017, is behind my X now, but also has had issue like air suspension failure that required replacement of the pump and rear struts, and has been out of service 13 of the 110 days I have owned it.

20 days is the Lemon Law cutoff in NJ, where we live, so I am going to see how the most recent issue is resolved and then determine whether I will file for relief for the Model X. My main issue, honestly with both of my Tesla's now, is I don't trust them for my wife to drive, and as I travel often for work, I can't risk my wife and daughter being stranded somewhere with my $100k+ cars.

 

[verygreen]

What I'm seeing is most of the "issues" are people complaining of either alignment by zooming in 100 times and saying it off by a few millimeters and or rattles/wind noise

Well, if you check back in this thread, you can see actual pictures of my "few millimeter" of alignment issues that looked like the door is open when it was not.

As for rattles, I personally think loud rattles are very annoying, double so in Tesla where there is nothing else hiding them (except when you get wind noise hiding them which is also bad in itself) and unfortunately nowadays it's not always possible for me to use the old Russian advice of "if you hear any rattles, just crank up the music".

 

[C3XGarage]

Well, if you check back in this thread, you can see actual pictures of my "few millimeter" of alignment issues that looked like the door is open when it was not.

As for rattles, I personally think loud rattles are very annoying, double so in Tesla where there is nothing else hiding them (except when you get wind noise hiding them which is also bad in itself) and unfortunately nowadays it's not always possible for me to use the old Russian advice of "if you hear any rattles, just crank up the music".

Completely agree with you! If my sisters $17,000 civic can have all panels aligned, car have no squeaks or rattles, and still be manufactured in the US, why can’t a car that costs more than 6 times as much? I can see the first few having issues but to still have them when you’re on 80,000 or so X’s manufactured is not good

 

[BigD0g]

The old Russian advice of "if you hear any rattles, just crank up the music".

But the volume goes to 11!!! Lol

 

[Xtek]

Completely agree with you! If my sisters $17,000 civic can have all panels aligned, car have no squeaks or rattles, and still be manufactured in the US, why can’t a car that costs more than 6 times as much? I can see the first few having issues but to still have them when you’re on 80,000 or so X’s manufactured is not good

Time. Honda has been making cars much, much longer than Tesla. I bet if you went and looked at Civic's when they first came out the quality was nowhere near as good as they are now.

Not an excuse for Tesla. But, that's why.

 

[C3XGarage]

Time. Honda has been making cars much, much longer than Tesla. I bet if you went and looked at Civic's when they first came out the quality was nowhere near as good as they are now.

Not an excuse for Tesla. But, that's why.

See, I only agree with that slightly. Yes, Honda, for example, have been making cars a lot longer as a manufacturer. However, the world is much different today than when Honda began, even forgetting about all the data, modeling, nondestructive testing, destructive testing, and whatever else is available to manufacturers today, Tesla didn’t start from scratch in the same way these older new manufacturers did. Tesla have gained from their knowledge, as a company, they may not have produced them as long. However, they have hired people who have worked for these companies in key areas who would have gained that experience and knowledge working for Volvo or BMW. It’s the people who know how to build cars, not necessarily the company. Yes, they own some intellectual property, but even that knowledge transfers with employees and allows them to apply whatever is learned from that, hopefully, without violating that IP right or patent.

Furthermore, Tesla are on 80k X’s manufactured and even more S’s. With today’s agile manufacturing processes they really shouldn’t need their buyers to maintain pages worth of checklists to make sure they are receiving a quality car for that price. Especially with the same fit and finish problems that have plagued them from day 1 with seemingly no improvement.

I made another post above about a showroom S I sat in yesterday that all the panels were hanging off the interior around both front doors and the leather/pleather heavily deformed. It wasn’t just a few millimeters here or there, it was substantial! For them to be showing off that car as their showroom car was just scary to me having just ordered an X a couple of months ago for delivery soon. To me it presents poorly on the company and what they care about.