TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Tesla should learn from Apple!

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by ab26, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. ab26

    ab26 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2015
    Messages:
    202
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    So I saw the Apple keynote today and it got me thinking - iPhone X seems to be a technological marvel in many aspects...however, the execs kept the announcement pretty standard - they didn't seem to make a huge gaga about the iPhone X (compared to typical Apple announcements).

    Limited reviews of the iPhone X seems to be stellar as well. All this means is that Apple overdelivers to what they promise / market.

    Tesla on the contrary is the opposite - full of false promises. Tesla needs to change their marketing strategy regarding this otherwise the faith on present owners on the company will eventually fade.
     
    • Like x 2
  2. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    3,727
    Location:
    Clark Co, WA
    Tesla doesn't have the best track record of delivering things when they say they are, but they do deliver what they promise eventually.

    Apple is a well established player with a very solid chunk of market share. They are in a strong enough position where they don't really have to push their next phone. Whether they hype it like the best phone in the world or just throw it out there, sales are going to be about the same. So why waste a lot of money on hyping it? Even if the next iPhone was a complete flop, Apple will survive.

    Tesla on the other hand has carved out a niche for themselves, but they are currently very much a niche player in a very competitive market with a lot of enemies. Tesla has both established car makers bad mouthing their products while trying to force them out of the market and a bunch of new comers trying to get their foot in the door.

    Tesla is not on the ropes like a lot of stock analysts like to say. Tesla's future is not certain though. It's possible Tesla could end up the world's largest auto marker in another couple of decades, or they could be a footnote of history and/or a division of another auto maker. Tesla still needs to sell the sizzle more than Apple does.

    I think Apple made a bigger deal of the iPhone in the first few versions than Tesla makes about their cars now. The iPhone was the first successful smart phone. There were some phones with smarts before the iPhone, but it was the iPhone that made the case the smart phone was how cell phones were going to mature. Now all but the cheapest phones are smart phones.

    Tesla is trying to do the same thing with cars. It isn't the first electric car, but the Model S was the first electric car non-eco drivers wanted. It's the first breakout from the EV ghetto and it proves that an EV can be a better car than an ICE in most situations. That case is still being made. Unlike cell phones, the idea that EVs can be better has been slow to sink into the public consciousness. Even now, 5 years after the Model S hit the market, a majority of Americans still don't know much about EVs.

    The Model 3 will likely be the breakthrough car that makes people wake up and realize that EVs can be better. In any case, we're not there yet.
     
    • Disagree x 3
    • Like x 1
  3. azred

    azred Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2016
    Messages:
    687
    Location:
    Chandler, AZ
    Tesla doesn't need to learn from a company that is living off the brilliance of their deceased founder. Eventually iPhones will stop being an overpriced, must-have accessory and then Apple will either live off their huge cash balances or develop some innovative new products. I wouldn't bet on the latter happening.
     
  4. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2013
    Messages:
    12,806
    Location:
    San Mateo, CA
    A decade after the original iPhone, Apple looks to have another hit on it's had with the new 8 and X models. The company continues to innovate.

    Elon Musk sees the future coming better than anyone I know but sometimes gets carried away on what can be accomplished in a certain timeframe. But he gets there eventually.
     
    • Like x 3
  5. Uncle Paul

    Uncle Paul Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2013
    Messages:
    685
    Location:
    Canyon Lake,CA
    Apple phone does pretty much what the previous models did.

    Not much better as a phone, but camera is a bit better, but not for the things (facebook posts) that most use it for.

    More show off items than real improvements.
     
  6. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    9,029
    Funny this thread is made when in the Leaf thread said that Tesla didn't use enough hype on the Model 3 delivery event compared to what Nissan did in their Leaf presentation.

    Also I watched some reactions to the iPhone X announcement and there is some skepticism that they are overpromising with the face unlock (the fail during the presentation is a sign of trouble).
     
  7. outie

    outie Active Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2016
    Messages:
    1,178
    Location:
    SoCal
    Yea demo'ing a perfectly working unlock (like FSD video with nothing to show for the next 10 months) would have been much better.
     
    • Funny x 2
  8. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    3,727
    Location:
    Clark Co, WA
    When a technology matures, newer versions compete with older versions of the same thing. Microsoft ran into it with Windows. Many Windows users prefer older versions to the latest and greatest, which was not the case with Windows 95. That was significantly better than Windows 3.x.

    Apple is running into the same problem with the iPhone. Why get an iPhone 8 or X when an old 5 or 6 works just fine. I have a 5s which works just fine.

    In the ICE car market, except in China and India, older models compete with new cars. The US has a glut of used cars and the average age of fleet on the road is 11 years. A used car that is a few years old is usually just as good as a new car.

    Tesla doesn't have the problems other auto makers, Microsoft, and Apple have. At least not yet. When the EV market begins to saturate, then Tesla will have this sort of problem, but that is going to be a while. It will take longer to saturate the EV market than it has to saturate the electronics markets and it took 100 years to saturate the ICE car market.
     
  9. McRat

    McRat Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2016
    Messages:
    3,855
    Location:
    Norco, CA
    Woz is dead?
     
  10. Max*

    Max* Not Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    6,155
    Location:
    NoVa
    Really?

    From the early days:
    4 USB ports
    Internal media storage

    From the mid days:
    691HP P85D
    Greet you at the door summon on AP1
    On-ramp to off-ramp AP1

    From recently:
    AP2 will be FSD capable*

    *Sure, there's still time. But considering there's an AP2.5 already, and Tesla took 168 (169?) takes just to get the demo video, and FSD doesn't differentiate from EAP, and EAP doesn't differentiate from AP1. Yeah... I'm good putting this on the list.
     
    • Like x 1
  11. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    3,727
    Location:
    Clark Co, WA
    I don't recall ever seeing any promises about internal media storage, but I believe the Model X has had 4 USB ports from the start and the Model S has had them since last fall.

    Tesla should have put the car on a dymo and reported the results rather than just add the HP from the two motors together. Because of the differences between electric and ICE drive, reporting HP for an EV is kind of an odd thing to begin with. One of the problems was there were very few dymos that could handle Tesla's dual motor set up. Not long after Tesla came out with the dual motor cars I saw some YouTube videos where people had tried to put D cars on a dymo and the dymo crashed because it couldn't handle the separate drive units.

    Summon will pull the car out of the garage. I don't live in a fancy mansion, so that's about as close to my front door my car can get without doing damage to something. AP1 summon has never been able to do much more than straight line movement and that may or may not be a missed promise. I find a lot of people reading a lot into Elon's statements and it's confusing whether he has actually missed on a lot of these promises or not.

    I will capitulate and agree that Tesla probably has missed a few promises.

    I've seen a lot of speculation about AP 2.5, but about the only thing anyone has confirmed is the camera in the cabin, which some have speculated came out of the NHTSA report on the AP 1 crash in Florida. They didn't like Tesla's requirement that the driver touch the steering wheel from time to time.

    I have seen speculation that AP 2.5 has more processing power and I wouldn't be surprised at that.

    If the changes between AP 2 and 2.5 aren't that great, Tesla may upgrade all the AP 2 cars around the time the full self driving capability actually gets implemented. FSD is late, but I'm not surprised at that. Most people tend to underestimate how much effort it takes to get software right. Mission critical software like AP takes more thorough testing than a lot of other things that can survive a bug or two.
     
  12. deonb

    deonb Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2013
    Messages:
    3,437
    Location:
    Redmond, WA
    Absolutely was there. The Model S has (or at least had?) a 500gb HDD that was initially designed for media storage. This never happened and they used the drive instead to cache maps.

    I don't think this was a bad call - not at all - the map system before caching sucked. But it did become a broken promise. They should just not have said anything about the existence of the (unused at the time) HDD, and then either adding cached maps or media storage would have delighted all existing customers later on, rather than upsetting a bunch of them.
     
    • Like x 1
  13. outie

    outie Active Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2016
    Messages:
    1,178
    Location:
    SoCal
    Whoa. You know they actually showed a video and all the photos on the website? Of course they have since removed all traces of them at some point.
     
  14. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Messages:
    16,120
    On your second point...
    I'm not a veteran of Apple's shows, but it seemed like a pretty big to-do to me. Granted some of it was the building and such, rather than the product, so I'll give you that. But it still seemed like a pretty big "gaga" to me.

    On your first point...
    Can you elaborate on "technological marvel in many aspects"? I missed it. (I'm serious, not trying to be snarky.)
     
  15. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    3,727
    Location:
    Clark Co, WA
    The only video I've seen shows the car pulling itself out of the garage. I'm a bit late to the show, so I guess I missed some things.

    Back to the larger point, Apple operates in a world that is easier to control variables than Tesla. Tesla makes 2 1/2 ton machines that are capable of literally killing you in several ways. Those machines have to operate within a labyrinth of legal regulations around the world and Tesla is attempting to push the technology to places where new laws need to be written.

    A smart phone operates with the outside world in a handful of ways, but all those ways were well defined before Apple came out with the iPhone. Apple has a substantial more control over the universe they operate within than Tesla does and while there are laws they need to work within, there are no laws that need to change to do what they do. Your life is at little risk using a smart phone, whereas driving is one of the most dangerous things most Americans do on a regular basis.

    Apple doesn't talk about anything until it's completely ready to go live. That is a great way to do things, and Tesla is less disciplined about that, but that isn't unusual in the tech business. Tesla was also unable to do that with autopilot even if they wanted to. They wanted to get the hardware into as many cars as possible before rolling out the software and they needed to gain data from live systems while they were developing the software, so they had to have hardware on the cars for a while before the software was ready. They are needing to do that with AP 2 / 2.5 hardware too.
     
  16. Max*

    Max* Not Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    6,155
    Location:
    NoVa
    That was before my time, but I read a lot about it online. And @deonb commented on it.

    I'll add another item to the list of the early days --- something about retrofitting the vanity mirrors, for free, for lighted ones? Was that it? Might have been something else with the vanity mirrors.

    And great, the Model S has the USB ports now. It was promised 5 years ago. The cars made 4-5 years ago don't have them, nor was the promise kept.

    That's my main point. Elon promises a lot, and often under delivers.

    Seriously? There was a screenshot of summon showing it meeting you at the door on the WEBSITE! Not a statement by Elon, but on the physical website. Shortly after I ordered, and they realized that summon will NEVER be able to do that, they quietly pulled it off.

    I'm sure someone here has a saved screenshot, or if you don't believe me, I could dig it up on Google.

    That was the only point I was trying to make.

    The car is great. If they stopped over promising, it would be even better.

    I agree with this. But it will likely be another broken promise, because they over sold the capabilities in the demo video, and are no where near that now. Time will tell.
     
  17. Max*

    Max* Not Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    6,155
    Location:
    NoVa
    Model S | Tesla Motors

    From July 2015

    Untitled.png

    Then you look at the photo, and the car is waiting for you AT THE CURB, perpendicular, with arrows. There's little room for interpretation that this is a broken promise.


    They had another link on their website also, but I think some of the links on the time machine aren't working, so I can't find it now. I'm sure someone on TMC has a screenshot of the original summon promise.
    It might have been this one, but this could also have been the one where they just show what it does today: Model S | Tesla Motors



    I don't need this feature, I think it's silly. But it was promised, and never delivered, and will be never delivered.
     
  18. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    3,727
    Location:
    Clark Co, WA
    I was thinking Apple isn't perfect in the feature department. They are pretty good at delivering, but some of their supporting features are terrible. Apple Maps and iTunes comes to mind. iTunes for Windows is especially bad, but my SO (a die hard Mac fan from day 1), admits iTunes has never been very good.
     

Share This Page