"Tesla Slashes 7,000 Euros Off Model S Price in Germany"

[Johann Koeber]

Yes the price was reduced.

Also a member in the German forum mentioned he was told there are 100 Model S for delivery within 2 weeks here in Germany.

TFF Forum Thema anzeigen - 100 Model S sofort lieferbar!

 

[Aussie]

Current pricing for a "base" P85 in each country excluding taxes and incentives:

- USA US$ 94,750
- D US$ 101,700
- CND US$94,300
- N US$102,000
- UK US$96,300
- NL US$102,200

Now the reality is that someone in Oregon can jump into this car paying $87,250 (plus rego etc.) while someone in Germany will pay $121,000. So 38% more expensive. The biggest components of the difference is the tax in Europe and the US federal rebate. But Teslas in many European countries are by orders of magnitude more expensive than what they are in the US.
Can't wait to see the Australian pricing. With the luxury car tax (yes, reduced for fuel efficient cars), stamp duty and the GST it is going to be quite something again.

 

[mrdoubleb]

USD/EUR over the past year. Might explain a lot.

 

[Adm]

Current pricing for a "base" P85 in each country excluding taxes and incentives:

- USA US$ 94,750
- D US$ 101,700
- CND US$94,300
- N US$102,000
- UK US$96,300
- NL US$102,200

Now the reality is that someone in Oregon can jump into this car paying $87,250 (plus rego etc.) while someone in Germany will pay $121,000. So 38% more expensive. The biggest components of the difference is the tax in Europe and the US federal rebate. But Teslas in many European countries are by orders of magnitude more expensive than what they are in the US.
Can't wait to see the Australian pricing. With the luxury car tax (yes, reduced for fuel efficient cars), stamp duty and the GST it is going to be quite something again.

NL has a 21% sales tax. Did you take that into account?

 

[Aussie]

NL has a 21% sales tax. Did you take that into account?

Yes, I factored in the different tax rates for each country.

 

[sleepyhead]

A couple of comments in that article noted that these price decreases happened in Germany a couple of months ago. Is this true or did they go into effect today?

 

[Aussie]

The scary thing is that the car for which I paid $95k in March 2013 (after rebates but including tax, rego etc.) would cost $153,000 when purchased in Germany now after they have decreased the price. I am sure that significantly less people would buy the car here at this price point.

 

[Discoducky]

The scary thing is that the car for which I paid $95k in March 2013 (after rebates but including tax, rego etc.) would cost $153,000 when purchased in Germany now after they have decreased the price. I am sure that significantly less people would buy the car here at this price point.

Wow, didn't realize this, I wonder how a M5 compares or standard 5 series in price in Germany?

 

[Aussie]

Wow, didn't realize this, I wonder how a M5 compares or standard 5 series in price in Germany?

First a disclosure: My price was for a December 2012 order and March 2013 delivery.

The M5 list price is slightly higher than the P85 (no +). Slightly cheaper than the P85+. In reality BMW is giving between 10-20% discount at the moment so an M5 will be cheaper. And while I love my Model S you are getting a better car for your money with the M5. Just not electric. And yes, I know, "better" is totally subjective. But in Germany with its bad electric car charging infrastructure and high Autobahn speeds things are different compared to what we have in California where I am going 65 MPH and have a free charger in every parking garage.

 

[Discoducky]

Thx for the info on price and soon, hopefully, supercharging will be everywhere

 

[mhpr262]

It's also not a German car.

A big factor I think. Buying an American car is simply one of the things that are not done for a large part of the potential buyers. The pricier and racier American cars have also always had a reputation as being the preferred method of transportation by pimps .... and of course there is the fact that electricity is so expensive here that, unless you use the superchargers, driving the Model S is pretty much as expensive as a similarly powerful gas car.

Two or three moths ago there was a very favourable report in the German Playboy magazine however :biggrin:

 

[SCW-Greg]

... and of course there is the fact that electricity is so expensive here that, unless you use the superchargers, driving the Model S is pretty much as expensive as a similarly powerful gas car.

If this is true, then how can you afford to heat and light your homes then?
Electricity would have to be more than 10x higher to make this true here. My home electrical bill would be more than $1500 a month, or $18,000 a year.

I.e. a full charge at home is around $6 to $7 for the Model S (without Time Of Use plan), and otherwise pay $60 to $80 per tank of gas on my ICE.

 

[PV4EV]

.... and of course there is the fact that electricity is so expensive here that, unless you use the superchargers, driving the Model S is pretty much as expensive as a similarly powerful gas car.

... ehh ???

Petrol and Electricity costs in Germany are not too different to those in the UK, so I find this comment really weird..


For example in the UK petrol is roughly £6.25 / $10 / 7.50 Euros per imperial gallon, daytime electricity is £0.16 / $0.33 / 0.20 Euros per kwh. Night time rates are much lower, about £0.06 / $0.10 / 0.072 Euros per kwh.

Doing a full 85kwh at night (ignoring minor losses) will cost approx £5 / $8 / 6 Euros.

If a Model S can typically do 275miles on 85kwh then this means the cost per mile is around £0.018 / $0.04 / 0.021 Euros PER MILE.

Most "similarly powerful gas cars" will be doing less than 20 mpg. Or £0.31 / $0.52 / 0.37 Euro's PER MILE.


In other words a "similarly powerful gas car" costs about 17 times as much to run per mile . . . and you've made a pretty huge mistake.

The pricier and racier American cars have also always had a reputation as being the preferred method of transportation by pimps .. Two or three moths ago there was a very favourable report in the German Playboy magazine however

You need to check the date on your magazine. Sounds like its a 1975 edition ...

 

[SCW-Greg]

And while I love my Model S you are getting a better car for your money with the M5. Just not electric. And yes, I know, "better" is totally subjective.

Subjective!? I'll say!
More feature laden, maybe.
The Ultimate Driving machine... not any longer.

The drive dynamics of the Model S are years ahead of any other ICE out there. Driving 60 miles a day, in and out of traffic, there's just no comparison.

But I'm just rippen on ya in fun. BMW is the next closest ICE.

 

[matbl]

Current pricing for a "base" P85 in each country excluding taxes and incentives:

- USA US$ 94,750
- D US$ 101,700
- CND US$94,300
- N US$102,000
- UK US$96,300
- NL US$102,200

So about $7000 to get it taken apart, shipped to europe, reassembled and then delivered. Seems a little bit on the pricey side, but ok...

The real question is why the h--- does the brits get it for $5000+ lesd than the rest of us?

 

[Yggdrasill]

A base P85 costs £68,700 in britain, after a £5,000 incentive. That means that before incentive it costs $123,300, including 20% VAT. Without VAT it is then $102,750.

In other words, it isn't cheaper in the UK. Europe seems to have approximately identical prices in all markets, now.

- - - Updated - - -

... ehh ???

Petrol and Electricity costs in Germany are not too different to those in the UK, so I find this comment really weird..


For example in the UK petrol is roughly £6.25 / $10 / 7.50 Euros per imperial gallon, daytime electricity is £0.16 / $0.33 / 0.20 Euros per kwh. Night time rates are much lower, about £0.06 / $0.10 / 0.072 Euros per kwh.

Doing a full 85kwh at night (ignoring minor losses) will cost approx £5 / $8 / 6 Euros.

If a Model S can typically do 275miles on 85kwh then this means the cost per mile is around £0.018 / $0.04 / 0.021 Euros PER MILE.

Most "similarly powerful gas cars" will be doing less than 20 mpg. Or £0.31 / $0.52 / 0.37 Euro's PER MILE.


In other words a "similarly powerful gas car" costs about 17 times as much to run per mile . . . and you've made a pretty huge mistake.

Germany has significantly more expensive electricity. They've been shutting down nuclear power plants and that has really put pressure on prices.

With electricity costs at an average €0.2965/kWh (in December) and an average of 0.25 kWh/km, that works out to €0.074/km. An M5 uses about 10 liters/100 km, and gasoline currently costs €1.495/liter, so that works out to €0.15/km. That means an M5 costs around twice as much in fuel.

 

[PV4EV]

Germany has significantly more expensive electricity. They've been shutting down nuclear power plants and that has really put pressure on prices.

With electricity costs at an average €0.2965/kWh (in December) and an average of 0.25 kWh/km, that works out to €0.074/km. An M5 uses about 10 liters/100 km, and gasoline currently costs €1.495/liter, so that works out to €0.15/km. That means an M5 costs around twice as much in fuel.

You've chosen the worst case scenarios in order to reach your conclusion, and if true then Tesla won be selling many MS's in Germany !!!!


Surely any EV driver is going to charge over night with off-peak electricity at 1/2 to 1/3 the cost - even in Germany . . .

Most Model S driver's seem to have a lifetime average "about" 210wh/km even with some vigorous acceleration. If you drive an M5 in the same way it would absolutely NOT do 10L/100km (29mpg!!) and instead it would average something around 18mpg or 16L/100km.

I've spent some time driving an M5 (E60 version) and around town it was getting just 12mpg (23L/100km...) with a lifetime average of 18mpg (16L/100km).

So, even in Germany, with all the above factored in, the M5 is going to cost about 10 times as much to fuel, not twice as much.

 

[jkirkebo]

Most Model S driver's seem to have a lifetime average "about" 210wh/km even with some vigorous acceleration.

Here in Norway most are at ~225Wh/km now. In Germany the temperatures are higher, but so are the speeds. My guess is that german average will be significantly higher, probably around 250Wh/km. And we also have to factor in the losses in the charging process, it is around 88% efficient by my calculations. So 250*0,88=220Wh/km is the target to shoot for if you want to use 250Wh/km from the wall. I think few german cars will average consumption that low.

California averages would be significantly lower because of the warmer climate. Cooling draws much less power than heating, both for battery and cabin.

 

[Yggdrasill]

You've chosen the worst case scenarios in order to reach your conclusion, and if true then Tesla won be selling many MS's in Germany !!!!


Surely any EV driver is going to charge over night with off-peak electricity at 1/2 to 1/3 the cost - even in Germany . . .

I've been unable to find any real discount for off-peak electricity. The information I could find suggested that this is only available for heat storage systems, and the discount is only a few percent. (My German isn't great, however, and I've never lived in Germany, so I'm not 100% sure. If you have other information, that would be great.)

Most Model S driver's seem to have a lifetime average "about" 210wh/km even with some vigorous acceleration. If you drive an M5 in the same way it would absolutely NOT do 10L/100km (29mpg!!) and instead it would average something around 18mpg or 16L/100km.

That's 210Wh/km + charging losses + parasitic losses. 250 Wh/km all totalled isn't very unrealistic.

I've spent some time driving an M5 (E60 version) and around town it was getting just 12mpg (23L/100km...) with a lifetime average of 18mpg (16L/100km).

So, even in Germany, with all the above factored in, the M5 is going to cost about 10 times as much to fuel, not twice as much.

Checking spritmonitor.de, it seems the lifetime average is closer to 16 l/100km, so okay, it's €0.074/km for a Model S and €0.24/km for an M5. So the M5 costs about three times as much in fuel.

 

[matbl]

You've chosen the worst case scenarios in order to reach your conclusion, and if true then Tesla won be selling many MS's in Germany !!!!


Surely any EV driver is going to charge over night with off-peak electricity at 1/2 to 1/3 the cost - even in Germany . . .

Most Model S driver's seem to have a lifetime average "about" 210wh/km even with some vigorous acceleration. If you drive an M5 in the same way it would absolutely NOT do 10L/100km (29mpg!!) and instead it would average something around 18mpg or 16L/100km.

I've spent some time driving an M5 (E60 version) and around town it was getting just 12mpg (23L/100km...) with a lifetime average of 18mpg (16L/100km).

So, even in Germany, with all the above factored in, the M5 is going to cost about 10 times as much to fuel, not twice as much.

Not all countries have off-peak electricity rates. In Sweden where I live, rates are the same both day and night.

Why are you comparing with an M5? The most common 5-series is probably a 520d or something.