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Tesla source for software limited S60 daily charging to 100%

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by grayguy, Dec 23, 2016.

  1. grayguy

    grayguy Member

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    I've seen several people here in the forums mention that a software limited 60kwh model S with a 75kwh battery can safely set the daily charge limit to 100%, with the logic being that at 100% charge, it is only using 80% of the battery.

    Does anyone have an official source on this, or is it just assumed? My car fits this description but it still gives me warnings that setting the charge limit above 90% will degrade the battery.

    Also, when I mentioned this to the person at the factory who was giving me the keys and showing me the features, she said, "Tesla still recommend you not set the daily charge limit above 90% for a 60/60D.
     
  2. nagypite

    nagypite Member

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    • Informative x 2
  3. phaduman

    phaduman Member

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    Two issues here: one is warranty and the other is actual battery life. Tesla will likely go by the battery charge history for warranty purposes. But in reality, all the data shows the 100% charge on MS60 is likely charging to 86% on a MS75 - so your battery should be OK.

    If I had a MS60, I would charge to 90% for weekdays, and 100% for weekends & road trips. Unlike the MS75/85/90/100 owners, you would be talking about life much more peacefully, after 100% charging.

    You will notice a dramatic behavioral change for the MS75/85/90/100 owners when they plan to charge their car to 100% :).
     
    • Funny x 2
  4. hariclt

    hariclt Member

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    I am going to try and get an official answer from my service advisor ... I don't want some warranty questions down the road .. given I get that warning message ... paranoia
     
  5. SW2Fiddler

    SW2Fiddler Bannd Member

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    If you can get a statement from [email protected] I think everyone would accept it as authoritative.
     
  6. azred

    azred Member

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    Why would Tesla ever change their stock answer? The software limited 60's have already cannibalized sales of more expensive versions, especially the 75's.
     
  7. Naonak

    Naonak Member

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    From talking to my SC, even daily charging to 100% won't affect the warranty of your battery. Tesla "recommends" it, but according to my service tech, they would still replace it if it degrades over 6% (If I recall). He knows this, apparently, because some guy here in KC is trying to degrade his battery (and not having much success) for the past 12+ months by charging it to 100% every day. It's been stuck around 4% degradation from what I understand.
     
  8. hariclt

    hariclt Member

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    Thanks everyone for your thoughts .. I will check with my service advisor. For now .. doing 80% for normal days .. 100% when trip possible. Also - leaving it plugged up when sitting idle for long periods will at home ...
     
  9. BerTX

    BerTX Active Member

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    That is my process as well.
     
  10. BBB4000

    BBB4000 Member

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    Rather than starting a new thread I will piggyback on this thread. I just picked up my MS60D a few weeks ago and am torn on charging to 90% or 100%. I am wondering how many other owners on the software limited 60's are charging to 100%? When i asked this question to my delivery specialist he gave the stock answer that Tesla recommends 90% but added that if it was his car he'd charge it to 100%.
     
  11. BerTX

    BerTX Active Member

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    How would we know how many refresh S60 owners are charging to 100%? :p

    I almost always charge to 100% at Superchargers on road trips. It doesn't take much longer, and makes the next charge that much shorter if you don't use all the juice. I took a 2500 mile trip shortly after getting the car, and decided I would do the 100% charge strategy, since I was still new to driving the Tesla. I found it very relaxing, not having to worry about making the next Supercharger.

    Then, on the leg of the trip going from Salt Lake City to Denver, there was a huge thunderstorm that knocked out all power in Price, Utah. The Supercharger was out indefinitely! I was able to make it to the next Supercharger in Green River ONLY because I had charged to 100% in SLC. After that, I was convinced, and it has been Supercharging to100% ever since.

    At home, I don't let it sit at 100%, just on the off chance it might be better for the battery. My nearest Supercharger is 125 miles away, so to be comfortable I go to 100% before going there. Just to go to a decent grocery store is a 140 mile round trip with no charging opportunities, so I charge to 100% then, too.

    So basically, I sit at home at 80%, charge to 100% when I go somewhere, and always charge to 100% at Superchargers.
     
    • Like x 1
  12. grayguy

    grayguy Member

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    If you get something in writing, would you mind posting it back here? I have yet to see anything official from anyone at Tesla about this. I've only read posts on forums and seen Youtube testing videos, but they are all consumer inferences. All official Tesla statements have been to not charge over 80-90% for daily charging, except for occasional 100% charging on road trips.

    A verbal statement from a service advisor is pretty meaningless in terms of proving anything for warranty.
     
    • Like x 1
  13. caltechkid

    caltechkid Member

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    Here's to hoping we get something definitive on this, but even if charging to 100% on our 60/60Ds is totally fine, I'm convinced Tesla will be reluctant to disclose that information (see below). While I'm sure these calcs. have been done before, I hope someone finds them useful and can use the info to draw their own conclusions.

    Screen Shot 2016-12-28 at 11.20.20 PM.png
     
  14. justg0

    justg0 Member

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    I would be very interested to see if you plug in the cost to go from 75D to 90D and what is the $/RM.

    Basically 60 or 60D is an amazing deal as long as it can fit your needs. I had ordered 60D, but ended up switching to 75D as there are trips that I make regularly and 60D would have been a stretch. Just last week, I made a trip where when I rolled into a supercharger, I had about 10% battery left after charging 100% to start with. The weather turned ugly, it was much colder than expected, a road was closed so had to detour. With a 60D, I probably wouldn't have made it or would have had to slow down considerably to make it.

    Edit: BTW, my OA had said I would have no problem charging 60D to 100% everyday and that was the main reason I was considering that.
     
  15. Lex

    Lex Member

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    If the concern is that the pack is actually fully charging, and the 15 kwh is locked at the bottom end, then there's one easy way to verify this.

    In my 70, charging from say 97 to 100 percent takes a looooooong time when on the 220V 32A plug at home. It tapers down dramatically. So if you are experiencing full speed charging up to 100 (esp. when it's cold outside) I'd say it is safe to assume you are not nearing actual pack capacity.
     
    • Helpful x 1
  16. mediocreguy

    mediocreguy Member

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    I always charge my 2016 S60 to 100% at home. I'm convinced that the battery is top-end limited because:
    1. Full regen is available even at full charge (if the pack temperature is high enough).
    2. There seems to be very little taper at the end of a Supercharger session to 100%
    If that is indeed the case, I wonder how the limited pack will "degrade" since the degradation will be manifest in the non-existent top-end of the pack?
     
    • Informative x 2
  17. Lex

    Lex Member

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    Interesting question... suppose it depends on how the limit is calculated in the software.

    But in reality degradation on MS / MX is just does not seem to be an issue. I actually gained 1 km the last time I 100% charged. Tesla reports their test pack has run a simulated 500,000 miles and is showing 20% loss of capacity. I bet most people lose 20% of their iPhone capacity in its 1st year.
     
  18. caltechkid

    caltechkid Member

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    Ranger just stated charging to 100% on a SW limited 60 is fine and does not violate the warranty.
     
  19. hingisfan

    hingisfan hingisfan_Mark_V

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    I've lost about 6% on my 2014 60.
    It would be very interesting on the 60 (75), whether over time the degradation comes from a) the 60 portion of the pack, b) the locked portion, or c) the overall pack, thus making degradation on the 60 portion about 80% of what it would have been on the 75.
    Id guess c)
     
    • Informative x 1
  20. DB 2

    DB 2 Member

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    c) without a doubt, from someone who owns one.
     

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