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scaesare

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2013
8,569
15,059
NoVA
AP with all its supposed redundancy and machine learning accelerated into it.

Facts stated not in evidence.

As per the NTSB:
The National Transportation Safety Board reported later that the car had accelerated from 62mph to 70 mph four seconds before the crash.

That means the acceleration event was completed ~400 feet prior to the impact.

That's not "accelerating into" an object when it's still over a football field's length away.
 

argon2018

Member
Oct 21, 2018
221
182
Chicago
So much for machine learning. A Tesla chashed there and it wants to do it again as it seems from the footage.
Please people, stop talking about neural and self learning until we see it actually, consistently, learning. And if Tesla pushed an update for that section of road, it took them long enough for a random next person who would likely have been unaware, to possibly die the same way.

Also, let's take this in.
A well published accident happened there and AP was not disabled for it so Tesla could take time to figure out any specifics. It could be a consistent error and a matter of time before claiming another life.

With this information in hand, the family might have a case against Tesla. They are simply not doing the utmost and from what outsiders can see, hiding behind offensively skewed accident statistics. And now making AP standard before their testing and correcting protocols can be really vetted.

Do you understand that this is not self driving car? Autopilot is merely assistive driving system. The driver needs to stay attentive with both hands
On wheel. How is this unclear to you?

Only a person that doesn’t drive a Tesla speaks
Like that. What car do you drive?
 

argon2018

Member
Oct 21, 2018
221
182
Chicago
People’s expectation: if you drive a Tesla, you should not get into an accident. If you do, the car is at fault. This is literally what a family member stated who doesn’t drive one yet. People’s expectations are not in line with reality. Just bc Tesla is rolling out FSD in the future, doesn’t mean it’s self driving right now. Even then, it will prob require drivers attention due current regulations. These lawsuits need to stop. It’s totally ridiculous
 

Barklikeadog

Active Member
Jul 13, 2016
1,881
1,901
PA
People’s expectation: if you drive a Tesla, you should not get into an accident. If you do, the car is at fault. This is literally what a family member stated who doesn’t drive one yet. People’s expectations are not in line with reality. Just bc Tesla is rolling out FSD in the future, doesn’t mean it’s self driving right now. Even then, it will prob require drivers attention due current regulations. These lawsuits need to stop. It’s totally ridiculous

Some people expect the Automatic Emergency Braking or Front Collision Warning systems to work properly.
Do those require driver attention?
 

Cheburashka

Active Member
Jan 29, 2018
2,512
3,628
Los Gatos, CA
People’s expectation: if you drive a Tesla, you should not get into an accident. If you do, the car is at fault. This is literally what a family member stated who doesn’t drive one yet. People’s expectations are not in line with reality. Just bc Tesla is rolling out FSD in the future, doesn’t mean it’s self driving right now. Even then, it will prob require drivers attention due current regulations. These lawsuits need to stop. It’s totally ridiculous

And they are 100% correct.

What's the purpose of a car's safety mechanisms if they do not work?
 

argon2018

Member
Oct 21, 2018
221
182
Chicago
And they are 100% correct.

What's the purpose of a car's safety mechanisms if they do not work?
safety mechanisms are there to help you not replace you as a driver. It's 100% driver's fault if he was not holding the steering wheel or if he was not paying attention. Autopilot works very well and people rely on it like they can fall asleep. This is not what is advertised and every-time you activate it, it tells you to keep 2 hands on the wheel and be ready to take over anytime.

But if the drive hit the brake and it didn't work, then it would be Tesla at fault

does that make sense? you woulnt say the same for BMW Lexus Toyota but why Tesla
 

Dangerous Fish

Pilots the Millennium Milkfloat
Supporting Member
Jul 21, 2016
1,768
2,879
UK
No anti-collision system is or will ever be 100% effective.
There, I've said it.
Now let's hear who thinks that is not a fact.
 

trm2

Active Member
Apr 3, 2016
1,076
1,704
CLE
What % do they advertise?
They advertise that AEB can prevent 0% of collisions, just minimize the impact.

Tesla Owner's Manual said:
Warning: Automatic Emergency Braking is not designed to prevent a collision. At best, it can minimize the impact of a frontal collision by attempting to reduce your driving speed. Depending on Automatic Emergency Braking to avoid a collision can result in serious injury or death.
 
Last edited:

Barklikeadog

Active Member
Jul 13, 2016
1,881
1,901
PA
They advertise that AEB can prevent 0% of collisions, just minimize the impact.
I can't believe we are playing these word games.

What % of the time is AEB advertised to 'minimize impact'?
What % of the time does the frontal collision warning system work?
I have to assume they have done extensive testing to find out what the tolerances/success/issues/failures are
 

trm2

Active Member
Apr 3, 2016
1,076
1,704
CLE
I can't believe we are playing these word games.

What % of the time is AEB advertised to 'minimize impact'?
What % of the time does the frontal collision warning system work?
I have to assume they have done extensive testing to find out what the tolerances/success/issues/failures are

There aren't any word games. I don't think Tesla's AEB is very good, but to answer your questions:

  • What % of the time is AEB advertised to 'minimize impact'? - 0% of the time, it attempts to brake.
  • What % of the time does the frontal collision warning system work? I don't have a percentage, but it does seem pretty low.
  • I have to assume they have done extensive testing to find out what the tolerances/success/issues/failures are. Yes, we are all beta testing now.
They even flat out say you can die by depending on it.
 

Cloxxki

Active Member
Aug 20, 2016
1,362
706
Rotterdam
Do you understand that this is not self driving car? Autopilot is merely assistive driving system. The driver needs to stay attentive with both hands
On wheel. How is this unclear to you?

Only a person that doesn’t drive a Tesla speaks
Like that. What car do you drive?
Don't be that guy please. You're making the whole BEV scene look terribly immature with that kind of response.

You're telling me that would an army of software engineers in Cali, it's too much to ask to expect someone to make note of a crash that happened on AP and then take some measures to prevent recurrence, at least in that location?
Tesla for sure knows these cars are just robots, behaving as programmed. While selling the world on their machine learning.
Well, they don't back up the lie with common sense and man power.

How can you excuse someone with so much control over their fleet's software to NOT take any measures? They full well knew about the crash the instant it happened. They call you to check on you when the car senses an impact, especially when airbags go off. But never once does someone ANYTHING, just in case the 1% of 1% of 1% chance that MAYBE it was the software version's fault or a road situation trips up more than a statistically low number of cars.

Gross negligence if you ask me. And you know, how can we expect for these accidents to not happen anymore after Level 5 has been achieved? And when (not if) one happens, is this the kinds of response we are to expect from Tesla? Zero response, just them (or some AI communications rep) pulling up some iffy stats that FSD is still safer than average Tesla drivers? Is that a comforting response from the AI dev team, to you? Just let nature run its course until the next update that's scheduled and then delayed?
 

jeffro01

Active Member
Jan 30, 2013
2,693
3,157
Teller County CO
Don't be that guy please. You're making the whole BEV scene look terribly immature with that kind of response.

You're telling me that would an army of software engineers in Cali, it's too much to ask to expect someone to make note of a crash that happened on AP and then take some measures to prevent recurrence, at least in that location?
Tesla for sure knows these cars are just robots, behaving as programmed. While selling the world on their machine learning.
Well, they don't back up the lie with common sense and man power.

How can you excuse someone with so much control over their fleet's software to NOT take any measures? They full well knew about the crash the instant it happened. They call you to check on you when the car senses an impact, especially when airbags go off. But never once does someone ANYTHING, just in case the 1% of 1% of 1% chance that MAYBE it was the software version's fault or a road situation trips up more than a statistically low number of cars.

Gross negligence if you ask me. And you know, how can we expect for these accidents to not happen anymore after Level 5 has been achieved? And when (not if) one happens, is this the kinds of response we are to expect from Tesla? Zero response, just them (or some AI communications rep) pulling up some iffy stats that FSD is still safer than average Tesla drivers? Is that a comforting response from the AI dev team, to you? Just let nature run its course until the next update that's scheduled and then delayed?

Something tells me you're not a big believer in personal responsibility... Tesla is 0% at fault for this crash and the driver is 100% at fault, case closed.

Jeff
 

Cheburashka

Active Member
Jan 29, 2018
2,512
3,628
Los Gatos, CA
Something tells me you're not a big believer in personal responsibility... Tesla is 0% at fault for this crash and the driver is 100% at fault, case closed.

Jeff

Just like the pilots were at fault in the Boeing 737 MAX crash! It's their fault they couldn't predict and prevent the plane's shitty control system from flying it into the ground.
 

jeffro01

Active Member
Jan 30, 2013
2,693
3,157
Teller County CO
Just like the pilots were at fault in the Boeing 737 MAX crash! It's their fault they couldn't predict and prevent the plane's shitty control system from flying it into the ground.

Completely and totally different thing entirely... What a horrible false equivalency... Come on... Where do I start...??? Lets see, one is a car, the other is a plane. That's a pretty good start... One gives you instant visibility in relation to the ground and potential impact objects, the other severely limits what pilots can actually see as it relates to altitude and whatnot... Lastly, one system is advertised as beta and to be paying attention at all times, the other was slipped in with essentially zero notification/training with major known (and undisclosed) flaws...

Again... Come on...

Jeff
 
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Cheburashka

Active Member
Jan 29, 2018
2,512
3,628
Los Gatos, CA
Completely and totally different thing entirely... What a horrible false equivalency... Come on... Where do I start...??? Lets see, one is a car, the other is a plane. That's a pretty good start... One gives you instant visibility in relation to the ground and potential impact objects, the other severely limits what pilots can actually see as it relates to altitude and whatnot... Lastly, one system is advertised as beta and to be paying attention at all times, the other was slipped in with essentially zero notification/training with major known (and undisclosed) flaws...

Again... Come on...

Jeff


Ok, labeling something as beta absolves Tesla of any responsibility. Got it!
 

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