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Blog Tesla Sues Former Employee for Hacking Trade Secrets

Discussion in 'Tesla, Inc.' started by TMC Staff, Jun 20, 2018.

  1. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

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    1) Just because the file came from Tesla, doesn't mean that it means what they think it means, if you know what I mean.

    2) When I see things such as 732 modules/ packs punctured and the attempt to confirm an exact vehicle number related to theoretical punctured pack install, I think of Elon's history with leaks.

    3) A punctured, dented, or otherwise compromised cell would not knowing be used (assuming it didn't self destruct). Even less likely that they would record the use of a dented cell.
     
  2. scaesare

    scaesare Well-Known Member

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    Indeed.

    What's more, the offer Tesla made was to freely license the patents to those who would use them in "good faith". Thus:

    - Tesla would have a dialogue with the potential licensee to determine if it was a good faith use case

    - Tesla retains all of the intellectual property

    - The patented information (much more than is in just a filing) is not already available to the public


    People seem to misconstrue what that announcement meant. Tesla's secret sauce is not on GitHub for download by anyone...
     
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  3. scaesare

    scaesare Well-Known Member

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    What's more, the level of sophistication of "code writing" required to hack[1] the system in this case need not be high. This could be as simple as a shell script triggered by a cron job to copy a file off somewhere. Or a stored procedure in a database to export some tables.

    [1] Definition: "use a computer to gain unauthorized access to data in a system"
     
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  4. scaesare

    scaesare Well-Known Member

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    #104 scaesare, Jun 24, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
    Whereas I see it as Tesla vigorously defending it's reputation and preferring to tell it like it is in plain facts rather than engage in legal droidspeak.

    The Broder response seemed to set the tone for this... not some bland press release, but data, facts, and direct counter to the (mis)information presented.

    I, for one, find that refreshing. And it's been pretty effective.
     
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  5. scaesare

    scaesare Well-Known Member

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    Why?

    If I say I have data that you've knowingly used your JDapter Stub to steal a charge at exactly 37 destination chargers, does that level of specificity automatically make it true?
     
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  6. Economite

    Economite Member

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    #106 Economite, Jun 24, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
    [QUOTE="darrelld, post: 2823838, member: 46605"

    If I work at a bank and suspect my bank is doing things improperly I don't steal the suspected improper money and give it to the media.[/QUOTE]

    No... But a bank employee in that situation might very well take records (such as emails, internal memos, or financial reports) from the bank and give it to a reporter.

    Why do it this way? Because a reporter will investigate what is going on and will also keep the leaker's identity secret. Plus, once a reporter publishes an article about some sort of corporate shenanigans, other employees see the article and may bring additional information to the reporter. That's how a lot of scandals get exposed.

    As far as we know, this guy didn't sabotage Tesla's products, or leak its secret sauce IP to competitors or steal Tesla's money. He seems to have given a reporter production reports, internal emails about waste and damaged batteries, and (perhaps) photos of some batteries and machinery. He seems to have believed this information documented and that Tesla was putting damaged cells into its cars and was making remarkably inefficient use of production inputs. Either of these are newsworthy if true.

    Was he violating a valid NDA? Quite probably. Did he open himself up to the possibility of legitimate legal consequences? Yup. Would I have done this in this way? Almost certainly not.

    But he looks a lot more like a Leaker than a spy or saboteur. And Musk's breathless attempts to smear him by speculatively mischaracterizing his motives (and implying that this gigafactory employee somehow had something to do with the vent fire in Fremont) doesn't thrill me and plays like a panicked attempt to chill others from ever exposing anything and/or like an attempt to blame imaginary saboteurs/wreckers for Tesla's admitted production problems.
     
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  7. Economite

    Economite Member

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    The Broder response was rediculous. It not only documented how the trip went and what Broder should have done differently to avoid running out of power (both of which would have been appropriate), but also included absurd assertions that the presented data was evidence that Broder did this intentionally (including the wierd conclusion that Broder took a long route around the parking lot with the supercharger not because he was hunting for the supercharger but because he was trying to run down the battery). It made Tesla look paranoid and petty.
     
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  8. WarpedOne

    WarpedOne Supreme Premier

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    enough is enough, to ignore you go.
     
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  9. T34ME

    T34ME Active Member

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    I don't know who you are talking about, which means that poster made it to my ignore list long ago! ;)
     
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  10. scaesare

    scaesare Well-Known Member

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    Oh. Of course.

    I guess the cumulative 1/2 mile of circles in the parking lot while the battery displayed 0% is fully explicable by simply not being able to find the exit... and not indicative of any malice whatsoever.

    Silly me. Thanks for being the voice of reason.
     
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  11. adaptabl

    adaptabl Banned

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    Looks like time to put the tinfoil hats away. Just leaking of information Tesla does like leaked. No conspiracy going on.
     
  12. Economite

    Economite Member

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    I suspect he meant me.
     
  13. Economite

    Economite Member

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    Interesting how he feels about intellectual property of other people:

    Elon Musk drawn into farting unicorn dispute with potter
     
  14. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

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    Someone in Tesla put an image drawn by someone else that based on a 3rd party's image on an Easter egg screen (and in some promotional material), and that has bearing on theft of IP? I submit:
    1. Any rainbow farting animal is a knock off of Nyan Cat regardless of chronology
    2. Re-interpretation of farting unicorns is not copyright infringement
    3. The daughter raising the issue is a hypocrite. (yes ad-homin, but seriously?)
    4. Further from Elon:
    Must not hit post..... but Nyan Cat must be spread....
     
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  15. scaesare

    scaesare Well-Known Member

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  16. Economite

    Economite Member

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  17. bkp_duke

    bkp_duke Banned

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    Classic counter-suit to distract from his illegal activity. I hope Tesla goes after him so hard that he is paying for this until his grave.

    Think about it, if he had PROOF (not accusations), the media outlet he was working with would have already plastered that all over the internet (photos of punctured battery cells, etc. etc.). Instead it is his word against Tesla's. Tesla apparently has proof he hacked into systems and gave confidential information away (at the VERY least it is a contractual breach of employment - I'm sure he signed an NDA). We have yet to see a shred of any proof to backup his accusations.
     
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  18. Economite

    Economite Member

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    I believe that his assertion is that the production data he took from Tesla's computers is the proof of Tesla's misuse of damaged batteries. Assuming he's acting in good faith (which I know you don't believe is the case), he would have given that information to the press and to the SEC. But it's hardly the kind of "evidence" that anyone would put on-line, as it is likely just a big, complicated, data file or report. Also, are you suggesting that he should have further broken his NDA by putting Tesla's proprietary data online, rather than just providing it to the press and regulators? Getting mad at him for taking the data, and them also getting mad at him for not distributing it widely seems like an odd position.

    Of course, it is possible that he is just engaging in industrial espionage. But the less nefarious explanation also makes sense,
     
  19. bkp_duke

    bkp_duke Banned

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    I'm not now, nor have in the past, provided "advice" for this turd.

    The logical conclusion, however, is that if he has some whistleblower "smoking gun" we would have already seen it. Right now, there isn't even any smoke except from this morons tailpipe.
     
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  20. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Well-Known Member

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    I think there is enough truth in what Tripp said that it seemed believable. (Since Tesla confirmed that a robot was damaging modules.) But with my experience here is what I think probably happened, and I hope we get confirmation eventually:
    1. Robot was reprogrammed at X O'clock
    2. Someone noticed that the robot was damaging some modules at Y O'clock.
    3. System was shut down and all modules made between X and Y O'clock were marked as damaged/scrap in the system and pulled aside.
    4. Robot programming was corrected and production resumed.
    5. Someone started inspecting all of the "scrap" and put the good/non-damaged modules back into the production flow.
    6. Actual bad modules were recycled/scrapped.
    But by misinterpreting that data, or not looking at all of the data, you could make some incorrect conclusions: (And his own accusations sort of prove this.)
    • All modules marked as "scrap" were bad: Excessive scrap produced. (Even though a good portion, or maybe most, of the modules were re-certified.)
    • Not seeing all of the "scrap" being recycled: Improper disposal of "scrap". (Even though a good portion, or maybe most, of the modules were re-certified and returned to the production parts flow.)
    • Using "scrap" parts in production cars: Dangerous damaged modules used in production cars. (Even though that "scrap" was likely inspected and re-certified as it was not damaged.)
    So his third point likely proves that he had incomplete data, or wasn't interpreting it correctly.
     
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