Tesla Supercharger attendant suggests throttling occuring

[Garlan Garner]

Just to remind all you people arguing about proper behavior at superchargers, when it becomes necessary Tesla can implement any protocol they want to. They know everything. They control everything.
- they know if you're in the middle of a trip and (usually) where you are headed
- they know where you live
- they know your charging patterns
- they know exactly how often you charge unnecessarily at local chargers
- they know how busy the charger is currently
- they know how many cars are on their way to the charger and what their state of charge is
- they control how fast (and whether) the chargers will charge your car
- they control whether you can even drive into a charger space
- they control whether you have to stay with your car to have it charge
- they control how much they charge your on file credit card when they charge your car
- they control your car's response to auto-park and summon
- they control whether your car can be unplugged regardless of whether the key fob is present

Just about the only relevant thing Tesla doesn't control right now is physically plugging in and unplugging your car. Perhaps they'll solve that with robots, or with replacing the supercharger infrastructure with inductive chargers that don't require direct connection. Maybe they'll just post valets at troublesome locations -- that's a fairly cheap solution while the tech is under development. I don't pretend to know.

It's pretty clear to me that when this becomes a big issue they can selectively implement whatever protocols they like. For the 95% of superchargers where there's no problem they can just leave things alone. And for exceptional cases, they can always provide a nice big button on the screen saying "If you think we've messed up in your case, just press here to talk to a person...." Then you can tell them that there's electrical work being done at your place and so it's necessary that you charge at the supercharger for a few days. But they'll have a pretty good idea that you're lying when you try that excuse more than a few times.

There are so many options for Tesla with regards to supercharger congestion that it's just not a real long-term problem. Right now, with just a couple of small software changes they could implement the following solution:
- if you're local, you are restricted to stalls 1A and 1B at busy times (other stalls just don't work for you)
- if you wish to use a different stall, the cost is $5 (or whatever) to your card on file
- if you are at the beginning or end of a long trip and the charging is necessary then the charge is refunded
- if you overstay, the cost is $1 per minute (or whatever) to your card on file
Many other approaches could work too. This is just an example.

But congestion at the SuperChargers isn't Teslas problem.
They are neither making nor losing and significant money at SuperChargers. I'm shocked that they put anyone at a Super Charger station to do anything.
If I were Tesla I would let the public do whatever they do at SC facilities.
I would just sit back and watch the clown show as $80k car owners fight and fuss over $1.70 in electricity.

 

[SOLARUSA]

charging to a level I need to continue a trip is being a jerk? really?

If the service being offered at a location is limited to 30-minute of charging, then Yes - you are. Very simple really, congested SC's are being managed for the best communal interest of all - sometimes that might be less convenient for you.

Consider traffic lights - or do you run Red lights whenever they don't serve your wants? The solution is to take your 30-minutes, recue in line, and get 30 more.

 

[SOLARUSA]

the etiquette is first come first served. the problems are caused by people who use the SpC as a primary source of energy and people who leave their cars at a SpC when their charging is complete.

The etiquette is determined by Tesla, the problems are caused by those who seem to believe personal interests somehow outweigh that.

We agree that one of the problems is unattended cars tieing up superchargers.

 

[Garlan Garner]

If the service being offered at a location is limited to 30-minute of charging, then Yes - you are. Very simple really, congested SC's are being managed for the best communal interest of all - sometimes that might be less convenient for you.

Consider traffic lights - or do you run Red lights whenever they don't serve your wants? The solution is to take your 30-minutes, recue in line, and get 30 more.

Have we seen 30 minute limits yet? If not.....that IF in the front of your post voids all the rest of your comments.

 

[Garlan Garner]

The etiquette is determined by Tesla, the problems are caused by those who seem to believe personal interests somehow outweigh that.

We agree that one of the problems is unattended cars tieing up superchargers.

etiquette isn't determined by Tesla. Etiquette was in place long before Tesla was even thought of.

 

[Blu Zap]

Wow, this thread is all over the place. Back to the topic my experience with SC attendants is at both San Mateo and Mountain View. Before they were there I had witnessed owners enforcing made up rules. Like you can't leave you car unattended while charging. Stupid.
I appreciate their role in managing the cue. But they do more, such as pointing owners to an unoccupied pair of chargers instead of pairing up with someone else. Personal experience in explaining charger pairing shows that most owners don't even know about it.
The other topics here are readily explained. The charging curve is what slows the charge rate as a battery becomes full. No Tesla conspiracy. Perhaps the attendant was explaining in simpler terms that both he and the owner could better understand.
Double check that 30 minute parking sign. Some locations have it on every other stall. Some none at all. This for ICE vehicles. It was part of the deal with the landlord for more parking flexibility when the contract was originally struck. It does not apply to Teslas charging.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Wow, this thread is all over the place. Back to the topic my experience with SC attendants is at both San Mateo and Mountain View. Before they were there I had witnessed owners enforcing made up rules. Like you can't leave you car unattended while charging. Stupid.
I appreciate their role in managing the cue. But they do more, such as pointing owners to an unoccupied pair of chargers instead of pairing up with someone else. Personal experience in explaining charger pairing shows that most owners don't even know about it.
The other topics here are readily explained. The charging curve is what slows the charge rate as a battery becomes full. No Tesla conspiracy. Perhaps the attendant was explaining in simpler terms that both he and the owner could better understand.
Double check that 30 minute parking sign. Some locations have it on every other stall. Some none at all. This for ICE vehicles. It was part of the deal with the landlord for more parking flexibility when the contract was originally struck. It does not apply to Teslas charging.

As it has been proven over and over...there are only a few SC's where this is happening.

 

[AZ Desert Driver]

I didn't make a comment on whether Tesla should do this. I only wanted to clarify that under California law, a parking attendant that Tesla hired is authorized to tow vehicles for violating the conditions of posted parking signs, contrary to what @AndreSF suggested.

I did no know that a parking lot hire can tow my car. Is that only a Calif law, or fairly common across all US parking lots?

 

[AZ Desert Driver]

Good for you. That's good to hear.

Some people in here are STILL the way you used to be. Its unfortunate, but it won't last forever.

Thanks for defending my position. I wanted to be harsher toward the self-important I-want-mine-now fellow, but I have walked in those very same shoes. Call it ethics, OK. I was going for Maturity.
Yes there will always be a few jerks that walk amongst us. Just watch the political protests and watch the jerks come floating to the top. It is sad indeed, but I now think there are many more good guys than bad guys. How about an optimistic 98% good, 2% jerk?
Anyway, I put out there my raw feelings and it was nice of you to defend them. Thanks

 

[Garlan Garner]

Thanks for defending my position. I wanted to be harsher toward the self-important I-want-mine-now fellow, but I have walked in those very same shoes. Call it ethics, OK. I was going for Maturity.
Yes there will always be a few jerks that walk amongst us. Just watch the political protests and watch the jerks come floating to the top. It is sad indeed, but I now think there are many more good guys than bad guys. How about an optimistic 98% good, 2% jerk?
Anyway, I put out there my raw feelings and it was nice of you to defend them. Thanks

Yes...and again.. excellent description -Maturity.

Also. nice perspective on our political candidates.

 

[kort677]

The etiquette is determined by Tesla, the problems are caused by those who seem to believe personal interests somehow outweigh that.

We agree that one of the problems is unattended cars tieing up superchargers.

the etiquette is determined by the users of the SpC, other than providing the SpCs tesla has zero to do with it.
my comments are not about UNATTENDED cars, my comments were about limiting the time on the charger.

 

[kort677]

If the service being offered at a location is limited to 30-minute of charging, then Yes - you are. Very simple really, congested SC's are being managed for the best communal interest of all - sometimes that might be less convenient for you.

Consider traffic lights - or do you run Red lights whenever they don't serve your wants? The solution is to take your 30-minutes, recue in line, and get 30 more.

your analogy is a non sequitor, and there is no 30 minute charging limit in place at any SpC that I've ever used. and like I said, if I need a 60+ minute charge, that is what I am taking. if you want to do different go ahead but don't try to impose your set of charging morals onto anyone else

 

[Bet TSLA]

the etiquette is determined by the users of the SpC....

You do realize that Tesla can do whatever it wants to, don't you? If they want to limit charging time they can do so. If they want to limit which chargers people can use, they can do so. If they want to limit chargers that can be used by you personally they can do so. Etc. etc. etc.

So yes, Tesla gets to make the rules and enforce them if they like. They haven't done much in that direction yet, but they certainly will if it becomes important to keep their charging network working effectively. They've already said that they prefer that locals who have charging available at home don't use superchargers unless they are traveling long distance (they sent out letters). One day they may choose to enforce that bit of "etiquette". It's your choice only until they take it away from you.

 

[kort677]

You do realize that Tesla can do whatever it wants to, don't you?

the policy is that they provide all your SpC charging needs, any alteration of that for current owners is breaking a promise and could be actionable.

 

[Bet TSLA]

the policy is that they provide all your SpC charging needs, any alteration of that for current owners is breaking a promise and could be actionable.

This is true only in your imagination. Point to something written. Unwritten policy can be changed at any time. In any case, adding various restrictions does not abrogate the promise of "free for life" supercharging.

 

[AZ Desert Driver]

This is true only in your imagination. Point to something written. Unwritten policy can be changed at any time. In any case, adding various restrictions does not abrogate the promise of "free for life" supercharging.

I hope there are only a few folks like Kort667 demanding me-first priority. I admire you willingness to argue with him - I view it as a waste of breath - he aint gonna soften until he grows up a bit more.

 

[kort677]

I hope there are only a few folks like Kort667 demanding me-first priority. I admire you willingness to argue with him - I view it as a waste of breath - he aint gonna soften until he grows up a bit more.

are you really this dense? who ever said me first? if I arrive first then I go first, I charge I leave. what exactly is your problem with that?

 

[stopcrazypp]

I did no know that a parking lot hire can tow my car. Is that only a Calif law, or fairly common across all US parking lots?

This law applies to California only, given the context was about an attendant at a California supercharger station. You would have to look at your own state/local laws to see if there is a similar law.

 

[JonG]

This is true only in your imagination. Point to something written. Unwritten policy can be changed at any time. In any case, adding various restrictions does not abrogate the promise of "free for life" supercharging.

I disagree on two fronts, at least here from the UK

Teslas advertising about supercharging which is free for life makes no mention of a fair use policy as far as I am concerned. It's therefore part of the contract.

Secondly, Teslas advertising advise on a charging profile that is only available if the paired charger is not in use and therefore they fail to deliver on their promise again whenever this happens. Any throttling is also the implemendation of a fair use policy.

Now I get that etiquette is a good thing in general, but not when it's covering a shortfall in Teslas ability to deliver on its promotional material on which you based your buying decision. They simply need more chargers.

We should also ban the use of a 'free charge' - this was paid for as part of your purchase price.

The analogy is buying a coffee with free refills, but then having to wait for 10 mins to get your refill and then it dribbles into the cup and somebody tries to tell you you can only have half a cup. You just wouldn't accept it.

 

[Boatguy]

There are so many options for Tesla with regards to supercharger congestion that it's just not a real long-term problem.

Agree with everything in your post, except this.

We learned in telecom that "backhoes don't scale". Tesla may well be able to build cars faster than SCs.

Other than that, I agree that Tesla is pretty close to omniscient and omnipotent when it comes to SCs.