Tesla Supercharger is an illegal monopoly

[Mockingbird]

Tesla prevents Tesla drivers (who are the majority of BEV drivers) from fast charging elsewhere other than the Supercharger.

(Tesla drivers who want to fast charge elsewhere need to unofficially import the adapters and possibly retrofit the ChargePort ECU on their vehicles.)

Furthermore, Tesla on-board navigation navigates Tesla drivers to the Supercharger instead of other fast chargers.

As a result, Tesla can charge whichever rate it wants, and Tesla drivers are forced to pay because of the lack of alternatives.

By denying Tesla drivers the ability to use public fast charging networks, Tesla also denies the operators of those networks the critical fund needed to install and maintain their equipment.

The result is higher charging rates for Tesla drivers and poorer public fast charging infrastructure.

 

[Zythryn]

Tesla prevents Tesla drivers (who are the majority of BEV drivers) from fast charging elsewhere other than the Supercharger.…

The result is higher charging rates for Tesla drivers and poorer public fast charging infrastructure.

If that is the result, why are the charging rates less expensive than most fast charger networks.
Second question, why is the Tesla network the best out there?

BTW, I now a number of people with official CHaDeMo DC fast charger adapters.

 

[VT_EE]

Superchargers are cheaper than virtually all DC fast charging options and far more reliable. I’m not sure you can convince a court consumers are being harmed. Besides, the network will be opened at some point in the not to distant future.

 

[Mockingbird]

If that is the result, why are the charging rates less expensive than most fast charger networks.

Electrify America’s rates are less expensive

Second question, why is the Tesla network the best out there?

…because Tesla deny other network operators revenue from Tesla drivers

BTW, I now a number of people with official CHaDeMo DC fast charger adapters.

Which costs ~$400, is limited to 50 kW, and isn’t available anymore

The CHAdeMO adapter provides a subpar experience.

 

[Mockingbird]

Superchargers are cheaper than virtually all DC fast charging options

Not true anymore

and far more reliable.

again, that can be explain by Tesla denying revenue from Tesla drivers to these operators, revenue needed for maintenance, upgrade, etc.

I’m not sure you can convince a court consumers are being harmed.

Of cause not.

Tesla would have far better lawyers that most people can afford.

Besides, the network will be opened at some point in the not to distant future.

I am talking about the ability of Tesla drivers to use other fast charging networks.

 

[moa999]

Argument false down win Europe, UK, Aus/NZ, Singapore, Hong Kong (all CCS2 countries) and even China (GB/T).
Plus obviously Korea with the adapters that will undoubtedly make there way to the US at some point.

 

[Mockingbird]

Argument false down win Europe, UK, Aus/NZ, Singapore, Hong Kong (all CCS2 countries) and even China (GB/T).
Plus obviously Korea with the adapters that will undoubtedly make there way to the US at some point.

Okay, I mean specifically in North America.

Even if the CCS adapter is available, there is the ~$300 barrier (cost of the adapter) to charging elsewhere other than the Supercharger.

 

[RTPEV]

This is quite a stretch, and regardless it's untrue since I can just plug my Tesla into any 120V outlet I wish and charge my car.

Oh, but that's not as convenient as a Supercharger, you say. True, but I wouldn't consider the fact that Tesla is offering a more convenient (but proprietary) charging solution to me and not providing me the hardware I would need to using a competing charging network grounds for calling it a monopoly.

 

[Mockingbird]

This is quite a stretch, and regardless it's untrue since I can just plug my Tesla into any 120V outlet I wish and charge my car.

Oh, but that's not as convenient as a Supercharger, you say. True, but I wouldn't consider the fact that Tesla is offering a more convenient (but proprietary) charging solution to me and not providing me the hardware I would need to using a competing charging network grounds for calling it a monopoly.

No, it is true.

Tesla is preventing Tesla drivers from fast charging elsewhere other than the Supercharger.

Charging for 2 days at a 120 V outlet isn’t comparable to charging at the Supercharger for 40 minutes.

It’s like saying that using a slide rule is equivalent to using a graphing calculator.

 

[terrywhite]

No, it is true.

Tesla is preventing Tesla drivers from fast charging elsewhere other than the Supercharger.

Charging for 2 days at a 120 V outlet isn’t comparable to charging at the Supercharger for 40 minutes.

It’s like saying that using a slide rule is equivalent to using a graphing calculator.

How are they "Preventing" you? Yes the CCS adapter costs $300. It's not cheap, but it's also AVAILABLE and therefore makes it so you CAN charge on other DC fast networks. Just because something cost more than you're willing to pay doesn't make it a monopoly by the legal definition. There are also 3rd part CSS adapters. Your cost argument is flawed at best.

 

[Mockingbird]

How are they "Preventing" you? Yes the CCS adapter costs $300. It's not cheap, but it's also AVAILABLE and therefore makes it so you CAN charge on other DC fast networks. Just because something cost more than you're willing to pay doesn't make it a monopoly by the legal definition. There are also 3rd part CSS adapters. Your cost argument is flawed at best.

The adapter is available in South Korea, not in North America.

Also, a new ChargePort ECU might also be needed, and where is that going to come from?

 

[Haydn31]

Since 75% of EV’s are Teslas it seems like any fast charging suppliers could install Tesla-compatible plugs and compete with the Supercharger network.

 

[Mockingbird]

Since 75% of EV’s are Teslas it seems like any fast charging suppliers could install Tesla-compatible plugs and compete with the Supercharger network.

They can't because the Tesla Proprietary Connector (TPC) is, well, proprietary.

 

[roblab]

Holy cow. All this worry over having to charge a car at a supercharger. In my experience, I've found that superchargers are the best place to charge, anyway, and the price to some Tesla owners (I mean Model 3 owners, not Model S which charge for free) has been WAY LESS than filling a car up with gas. And with the large available range, most charging would happen at home. On a trip, I can charge once at a supercharger and head on to my destination, and then charge at a slower charger at the motel at night. If this is not convenient, I don't know what is. If some folks have to buy a CCS adapter, well that's the price you pay for supercharging, the alternative being to plug into an outlet (120 or 240 volts). There is not another EV out there that allows such easy charging options.

I own an S and a 3, and neither one has ever been a problem to charge on a trip.

 

[Mockingbird]

Holy cow. All this worry over having to charge a car at a supercharger. In my experience, I've found that superchargers are the best place to charge, anyway, and the price to some Tesla owners (I mean Model 3 owners, not Model S which charge for free) has been WAY LESS than filling a car up with gas. And with the large available range, most charging would happen at home. On a trip, I can charge once at a supercharger and head on to my destination, and then charge at a slower charger at the motel at night. If this is not convenient, I don't know what is. If some folks have to buy a CCS adapter, well that's the price you pay for supercharging, the alternative being to plug into an outlet (120 or 240 volts). There is not another EV out there that allows such easy charging options.

I own an S and a 3, and neither one has ever been a problem to charge on a trip.

In Europe, many Tesla drivers rarely fast charge at the Supercharger because they can fast charge elsewhere for less €.

 

[Haydn31]

They can't because the Tesla Proprietary Connector (TPC) is, well, proprietary.

Is there a legal difference between a TPC connected to a cable and a TPC connected to a CCS1 socket?

 

[BretDev]

Tesla prevents Tesla drivers (who are the majority of BEV drivers) from fast charging elsewhere other than the Supercharger.

(Tesla drivers who want to fast charge elsewhere need to unofficially import the adapters and possibly retrofit the ChargePort ECU on their vehicles.)

Furthermore, Tesla on-board navigation navigates Tesla drivers to the Supercharger instead of other fast chargers.

As a result, Tesla can charge whichever rate it wants, and Tesla drivers are forced to pay because of the lack of alternatives.

By denying Tesla drivers the ability to use public fast charging networks, Tesla also denies the operators of those networks the critical fund needed to install and maintain their equipment.

The result is higher charging rates for Tesla drivers and poorer public fast charging infrastructure.

Sorry - what planet are you on? We've had several Leafs over the past seven years until we recently added a MY... Always use our charge adapter when at home for the Telsa and haven't had any issues using it else where; if a super-charger isn't available. But - I can't say how happy we are with the extreme simplicity of the SC network on the rare occasions we do need it... In contrast - commercial charging the Leaf is just cumbersome. Hope these other vendors get better for everyone's sake... but until they do - Tesla has the trust with our family: KISS all the way.

 

[Mockingbird]

Sorry - what planet are you on? We've had several Leafs over the past seven years until we recently added a MY... Always use our charge adapter when at home for the Telsa and haven't had any issues using it else where; if a super-charger isn't available. But - I can't say how happy we are with the extreme simplicity of the SC network on the rare occasions we do need it... In contrast - commercial charging the Leaf is just cumbersome. Hope these other vendors get better for everyone's sake... but until they do - Tesla has the trust with our family: KISS all the way.

Everyone here knows that the CHAdeMO connector that the Nissan Leaf uses is on the way out.

Also, this discussion isn’t about the Nissan Leaf.

 

[Mockingbird]

Is there a legal difference between a TPC connected to a cable and a TPC connected to a CCS1 socket?

The charging equipment needs to be able to talk to the vehicle and it can’t because the “language” is proprietary.

 

[STS-134]

Tesla prevents Tesla drivers (who are the majority of BEV drivers) from fast charging elsewhere other than the Supercharger.

Wrong. Tesla has a CHAdeMO adapter. I've used one of those before. Tesla also has CCS support. I've used that too, with my CCS adapter that is made by Tesla. There are several other third party CCS adapter brands because the CCS adapter is just a pin passthrough.

(Tesla drivers who want to fast charge elsewhere need to unofficially import the adapters and possibly retrofit the ChargePort ECU on their vehicles.)

Unofficially import the adapters: yes, if you want OEM equipment. No, if you are willing to settle for third party adapters.

Furthermore, Tesla on-board navigation navigates Tesla drivers to the Supercharger instead of other fast chargers.

So? If your ICE vehicle only navigates to Shell stations, are you too stubborn to use GasBuddy or Google Maps to figure out where the Chevron and 76 stations are?

As a result, Tesla can charge whichever rate it wants, and Tesla drivers are forced to pay because of the lack of alternatives.

Next time I go on a road trip, I'll take charging rates into account when deciding between supercharger and EA or other brands. But a 10-15 cent difference is unlikely to override the location of the charging equipment and what else I can do when I stop there. If the restaurants or shops at the supercharger location look more interesting, I'd stop there, regardless of whether I have to pay more. The lesson here is that if you locate your fast chargers at desirable locations, you can charge more. Until competition shows up at another location in the same parking lot...